Dealing with Stripped Bottom Bracket
 

I'm attempting to rehabilitate a Raleigh Sports (actually a Western Flyer Tourist, but essentially the same bike). I discovered yesterday that the threads on the non drive size of the bottom bracket shell are stripped.

I could buy a Velo Orange clamp-in BB, but for what I'd end up paying for that and replacement cranks I could get another frame with a decent BB.

The threads further in on the non drive side are still good. I was considering backing out the fixed cup on the drive side a bit so I could get into the good threads on the non drive side.

I was thinking I'd put some loctite on the fixed cup to keep it where I want it.

All of this hinges on actually being able to remove the fixed cup. We shall see how that goes.

Does this seem completely idiotic?

Your plan has two snags. If you are able to send the adjustable cup in deeper in order to get to the good threads you will have no threads exposed on it in order to accept the lock ring. You will also be altering the stock chainline by a good measure.

You can stay with a traditional three-piece bottom bracket assembly by reaming out the the threads on the damaged adjustable side and rethreading it (tapping it out) to italain thread of 36mm pitch diameter. Tools for this exist and you could get it done at a co-op or lbs. One comapny which offered the reamer is Bicycle Research Products.

There's also threadless cartridge bottom brackets that pressure their way in if you really really really want to write off the threading.

I would check to see if there's a bike coop in your area that has a good selection of older BB parts. There is a good chance that if the stripping isn't to bad that you can find a none drive side cup with slightly longer better threading that can be made to work, after you clean up the threads with a tap.

That option may not be available given that it is probably the Raleigh proprietary threading. I don't recall there being much variation in the cups for the proprietary threading.

It is definitely the Raleigh threading. I'm looking at the clamp in bottom brackets - are the Velo Orange ones the only option?

Check out "threadless" bottom brackets that were sold by Mavic, which there are still many NOS and good used ones, still for sale out there.
The one by Mavic works by having the outer face of your BB shell chamfered at an angle and the BB has bushing with matching angled faces that locks in the BB by lock ring pressure when you tighten them, all totally independent of any threading on the BB shell. I have not heard anything negative about these BB's, only the fact that an LBS (with the proprietary tool to cut in the chamfer of the BB shell face will) will have to first do the chamfering on your BB before you can install the Mavic BB.
VO supposedly had, or still have a similar BB, but I'm not sure if that one needs to have your BB shell faces chamfered first. If it doesn't, it will be easier/cheaper to install.....

There are several threadless bottom brackets that would work with your frame. However, if I've read your posts correctly, you do not want to change cranks. If so, that will be problem. I'm only aware of one threadless bottom bracket that is not a cartridge type with sealed bearings and a captive, cotterless spindle. Even then, there is a very good chance that it won't work with your existing cottered spindle. You're almost certainly going to have to get a new crank.

If I need to change cranks, I'll change cranks. What are my options? Will the Sunlite repair bottom bracket work? My shell seems to be 71mm.

Assuming it does, how do I choose the spindle length?

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...if you have access to the tools, the suggestion to ream oversize and go with Italian is your cheapest option. I love Raleigh 3 speeds, and have owned and ridden a number of them, but I wonder if maybe yoiu really are better off just writing off this frame as is mentioned in your initial post.

They're not particularly rare, and the Western Flyer version is probably dialed down a little in terms of quality in comparison to a Raleigh branded bike, like some of their other 3-speeds branded differently (Dunelt, Robin Hood, etc.) It's more investment than I personally would put into that bike.

...
...upon further reflection, I realize that at the point you are at, I would probably just take the frame over to the bike co-op here, and attempt to use a piloted BB threading tap to rethread the whole thing standard, and probably at the same time use the BB facing attachment to narrow the BB shell down to a standard 68. People rethread those things standard all the time and seem to get away with it....even though it's probably not the best practice.

Use some Loctite blue when you install that new standard fixed cup and hope for the best. Better would be a sealed unit BB that takes some of the stress off the cup threading and transfers it within the BB unit. But you're still on the hook for a new cotterless crank. I will probably be chastised for suggesting this, but it wouldn't be the first time. :)

Interesting option - thanks for the suggestion. That said, the Sunlite BB is like $20, which would meet my cheapness requirements, and there are some pretty reasonable crank sets on Amazon that I assume would work.

What's the drawback of this approach?

...You might run into some issues with the BB shell width. Or you might not. That and figuring out what spindle length you require for your new crank. But obviously whichever way you choose to explore, you're gonna end up with the possibility of issues. Issues, unless you have access to a steady stream of usable used parts cheap, like at a co-op, almost always enc up costing you more money.

If the crankset you buy is new, it will presumably come with spindle taper and length recommendation, so that eliminates some of the guesswork. You ought to be aware that there are some pretty awful cast aluminum cranksets out in the world right now. I'm guessing some of the cheaper ones are of that variety. But I don't know jack about what's available new, having access the aforementioned stream of old parts.

I vote for finding a replacement frame unless there's something particularly special about this Western Flyer.

YST also makes a threadless cartridge, quite affordable at about US$20, IIRC, but it doesn't have a particularly good reputation. MAVIC and EDCO also made threadless cartridges, decent quality but long out of production. And all these are square-taper type spindles, so if your Sports still has the original cottered crank, you'd be looking at replacing that as well.

The cheapest option might be to ream the shell and tap Italian threads, if you can find a shop with the requisite tools. This would at least you to keep your current spindle and cranks, and just purchase new Italian thread cups.

The Mavic 610's seem to be very good quality I have one on my Peugeot. You may be able to find one as Chombi says but I believe the tool Mavic made to chamfer the BB shell is very hard to find. I've read of people modifying valve seating tools to do the same job. Best bet would be to check with the bike co-ops in your area, people who are used to dealing with old steel frames.

I installed a Mavic using hand files to chamfer the edge. It ain't rocket science, the tolerances are easy to meet and worked a charm. Wish I'd taken a pic but it's not hard to visualize.

Well... for the most part I'm trying to get past the sunk cost. I'm fixing this up for my wife. I have pretty much everything overhauled, and only discovered the BB was bad after she it for a test ride and the cone walked out on her.

Also, it's red, and my wife likes red.

So, I'm going to call a shop that deals with such things (Blazing Saddle Cycles in Cleveland) and see if they can do the ream-n-tap thing for a reasonable rate.

So the next retro-styled item Velo Orange ought to develop is a threadless cartridge BB that accepts cottered cranks. :lol: Wouldn't that be perfect?

One easy and low cost solution not as yet mentioned would be to fit a Thompson-Simplex (Thun) type chainset. These mount in a standard size shell and do not make use of shell threads. They are found on a great many department store type bicycles so you could likely harvest one for next to nothing at a junk yard, dump, bike co-op or similar venue. They mount and demount without the need of any special tools.

BMXmuseum.com For Sale / Thun Thompson 2 piece cranks

Vintage Thun Crank Crankset Bike Chrome 36T 125mm 431 | eBay

Here is a set of this type of bottom bracket fittings for cottered cranks:

http://bankruptbikeparts.co.uk/image...05-500x500.jpg

Recycle it and get another frame. There is no need to save everything. Kludging things because you can does not mean you should. It will fail at the least opportune moment. That is just how things work out around here....

:lol: Please close the thread now. It's complete with the perfect answer.

Use braze material to fill the threads and retap the entire side?

If your shell is 71, reface it and use some spacers. Or reface it down to a true 68 and try it again. If you take all of the facing off the non-drive side it might be enough to catch the good threads further in the BB

Just to wrap this up... I've abandoned the frame for the time being at least. I have a 50s Raleigh Sports laying around that I've turned my attention to. It ain't red, but I think my wife will be OK with it.

I'm amazed at the difference in quality between the Raleigh-built Western Flyer and the Raleigh-built Raleigh branded bike. Many of the main components are the same, but the Western Flyer's brakes, kickstand, cranks, fork, and probably some other parts are much worse than on the Raleigh.

I was able to use a few bits from the Western Flyer on the Raleigh, so it wasn't a complete waste (1/4" 26tpi nuts are not easy to come by).

I had this done on my Raleigh Twenty. No problems for 16 years, I really should replace the UN54 that's installed!

The shop actually filled both sides of the BB with brazing material, retapped to BSC and faced the BB from 76mm to 68mm.

Is there any reason not to have an LBS tap the threads out to Italian, then use new cups with the original spindle and cranks?