Bertin experts, what is this?
 

Howdy folks-


I picked up a new project recently, its an old French Bertin but I'm not sure of the model/frame tubing.


I think its pretty original:


-Belleri stem/bars
-Weinmann brakes
-Malliard/Super Champion wheels
-TA Cyclotouriste crankset
-KKT Pro Vic II pedals
-SanMarco Saddle
-Milremo seat post
-Huret downtube shifters/derailleurs
-Superlight headset


Frame doesn't have a sticker noting frame tubing, rear dropouts are marked Milremo w/ adjusters, the lugwork and paint are very nice on this one!


Anyone know the model or frame material? My best guess is lower end Vitus but the bike feels very light to me!


thanks,


Mark

Thumbnail would not resize for me.
It's Blue.

Oh shoot, yeah you're right! About it being blue and about the pic.


I think I fixed that now!


Mk

Later 70's early 80's. After my time with them. Looks like pretty sporty geometry wise. Bertin did not saddle lower tier bikes with dumb geometry. Who knows on the tubing, as Bertin paint was often thin, careful examination near the lugs and fork crown may yield some stampings visible through the paint. Deserves a rebuild, most everything looks in concert parts quality wise.

Can you post some sharper pictures please? Close ups of the fork crown, seat cluster and rear dropouts...

verktyg :50:

An ounce of knowledge is worth a pound of guesses!

Chas.

The frame has racing geometry, top tube cable tunnels and bottle bosses. It also appears to have 700C wheels and the derailleurs appear to be be the new style introduced by Huret in 1974. Consequently, it would appear to be mid to late 1970s but based on the cable tunnels and bottle bosses it should be firmly in the late 1970s and probably the very late 1970s.. I don't think it would get into the early 1980s based on the TA crankset.

The missing piece of the puzzle is the tubeset. Check to see if there is a size stamped on the seat post. if not and you have a set of calipers. measure the diameter. That should give us a good idea of the tubing grade. However, it would appear to be at least mid-grade based on the frame fittings. The entry level models typically used cable stops and didn't have bottle bosses during the apparent era.

Ok I took a few better pics as requested to help narrow this down.


And yes as someone mentioned the wheels are indeed 700c and the tires, if they aren't original, are VERY old but well preserved Wolbers in the size of 700X22!!


The seatpost is a Milremo and is indeed marked with the size, which is 25.8.


Hope this helps!


Since making the original post I've totally stripped the frame, cleaned it, overhauled the headset and bottom bracket, and am currently awaiting a bearing and supply shipment later this week so I can finish off the wheels, pedals, and get the bike going again.


Can't wait to ride it!


Oh one other thing, the bike came with KKT Pro Vic II pedals. I was planning on overhauling them later and using another pair of KKTs I had that were ready to rock.......but the ones I have won't thread on to the TA cranks!
Looks like KKT made some French threaded pedals for Bertin (or others) to use?


thanks,


Mk

That seat post is smaller than I was expecting. Even though the post is a bit small, I suspect the frame is Durifort, which was a plain gauge tubeset. It may be a model C34 from the very late 1970s. Hopefully, BertinJim will be along shortly and provide a more informed answer.

Here's one more shot which shows the lug work, which is nice.


Also, I've read about the Durifort tubing being "plain gauge" but how does this compare to other companies "plain gauge", for example, Peugeot? Because I just finished up a restoration of an old Peugeot UE-8, and although it had fenders and lighting attached which added weight, it was WAY heavier than this Bertin (BTW the Peugeot had all the steel bits upgraded, so it isn't a matter of the components making it heavier.)


Mk

Nicer dropouts than a basic pug; the drop outs and the weight difference suggests the bike has better tubing Pug UE 8 you built up.

atalamark-

I think it may be a C 70. This was an entry level racing Bertin with light gauge hi-tensile tubing. It was well equipped with quality components at the cost of a slightly heavier frame / fork. The typical clue to this is the AB diamond decal. It is often found on the down tube of most Bertins but C 70s almost invariably had them at the top of the seat tube. The 25.8 mm seatpost also indicates plain gauge hi-tensile. Higher spec French tubing usually was in the 26.2, 26.6 or 26.8 mm range for seatpost sizing. Charles should be able to add insights here as the detailed shots have arrived. It's a nice looking frame and I hope you enjoy it.

The subject bicycle is a club racer. While it may be plain gauge hi-tensile tubing, it is relatively light gauge compared to that used in a Peugeot UE8. A more appropriate comparison would be a Peugeot PA10, which was thier hi-tensile racer about 6 lbs lighter than a UE8. While there were weight savings in the frame, you can't dismiss the components, particularly the wheels. A standard UE8 had 27" steel rims and heavy clincher tyres. Even upgrading the steel rims to aluminum wouldn't have lightened it enough to approach that of the smaller and much narrower 700C rims and tyres. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bertin wheels are a couple of pounds lighter.

Oh, for some reason I thought the PA-10 used the same tubing as the U-series bikes but with racier geometry.


My UE-8 DID have the steel wheels, but those are long gone and it now has Campy Record/Super Champion 700c's.


This Bertin is less than a week away from being finished/ridden. Can't wait.


mk

I posted some picks for you, waiting to hear some of that knowledge of yours!!


Mk

By the way, can someone ID the model of Huret derailleur (can be seen in original post pic)? I'm just finishing up this bike and finally paying attention to the drive train, the derailleur seems ok but I'm wondering what to expect........is it a stinker? Seems to me it might be the Eco model?
Mk

Yes, it does appear to be an Eo. Is it a stinker? No, unless you're a weight weenie. The Eco, Challenger and Success all used the same basic design.

Ok folks here's a quick pic from the Bertin in its currently fully overhauled state.


Every bearing is new with fresh grease and adjustments, all new cables/housing/ferrules all around, new red cotton bar tape, its all done!


Everything seems to be original except for the MKS steel toe clips and Christophe straps which I added.


Future plans include new tires (this week), full fenders (I live in Olympia), and re-lacing the front wheel (rusty spokes/out of true).


I'll probably get some saddlebag/bar bag action going too so the bike's more useful.


And I've been watching my young kids today and haven't even had a chance to ride it, later today will be the maiden voyage!!


thanks for the info some of ya'll have provided,


Mk

Oh and I'll likely put a few coats of clear shellac over the wrap later this week. And the wrap ends are cotton twined.
I used the VO wrap because I had a gift certificate, they call it "comfy" cotton wrap, its a little thicker and wider. Its ok. My big beef is the adhesive backing is very narrow and one has to be super conscious about the correct overlap so the glue is sticking to the bar and not the preceding wrap. This is of course always an issue with bar tape but because this stuff is so wide/the glue is so narrow, its a little more tedious.
I'll likely stick with Newbaum's next time.


Mk

I'm not a weight weenie by any means. I'm super pleased though that this bike is VERY light even fully built up.


And I'm taking a test ride later today, but the setup/adjustment of the Eco's seemed fine, its shifts across the 6 speed freewheel with no problem.


I am a little worried about chain skating......the freewheel is an Atom 77 and I've heard people have issues with skating on these......using the original chain..........


Mk

You have to shift the rear a cog at a time going uphill and if you can shift before you are in duress, so much the better.

No ramps, pins on the chain not the chainrings. Outer edge of the freewheel teeth have a trough to catch the chain but it can hang up too.
Us old guys who grew up with this stuff learned the muscle memory needed decades ago.

Well I'm happy to say this bike rides great and I'm very impressed with the Huret derailleurs and shifters.


This is by far the first vintage friction shifting setup I've ridden, in fact I've ridden nothing but old stuff for the last 18 years or so, but this is the first Huret equipped bike I've personally owned.


It shifts great, there's not chain skating, and everything is very quiet and smooth. Can't complain.


The bike itself rides excellent, seems to have approx. 73 degree head/seat tube, its pretty sporty but also not too aggressive, I think its a fantastic riding bike.


Mk