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Retro Wheels That Are still Speedy?

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Retro Wheels That Are still Speedy?

Old 07-16-16, 07:53 AM
  #26  
texaspandj
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Araya CTL-370 very light and fast vintage wheel.
Regardless of what wheels you choose, I think dark rims will look better than the silver ones you have now, if aesthetics is a concern for you.

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Old 07-16-16, 07:55 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I always think it is obnoxious for someone to pee on my concept when I ask a question around here, so I apologize. But I AM a fellow Masi owner (1980 frame) and I treat it more reverently than my other faves, Woodrup and Mondonico.
No need to apologize. I did ask for opinions, and don't consider anyone's opinion, peeing on my concept.
And I'm having it cold-set back out to 130. The frame is an '84 that I bought in '87.

Heh--found the '09 thread when I told the story of my Masi. It's going to be nice to ride this bike again.

I just found out there's a Masi 90th Anniversary celebration happening in my town (Carlsbad) near where my bike was made at the end of the month. Am going to try to have her done by then. Anyone else coming?
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Old 07-16-16, 07:59 AM
  #28  
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calamarichris, I'd just run the C24s to see how I like them and then work on the aesthetics. Because the bike is dark, the black spokes and nipples maybe attractive enough to keep. You're the best judge!

My distance bikes have always, or nearly so, had some aero rim. From CXP12, CXP22, and now CXP23 because I've always had a slightly better time when compared to my crit. bike's Open Pro CDs, although the OPs are very good for just about anything else. Really hard to fairly judge without a direct side-by-side comparo.

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Old 07-16-16, 08:11 AM
  #29  
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Dura ace hubs to Open PRO or Mavic GP4 tubs. Simple , matches your gruppo, good balance of fast and durable.
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Old 07-16-16, 09:11 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
I'm not sure how to approach the wheels.
Pic of my Vitus 979 after converting to 10 cog Shimano.
Replaced the beat-up 28/32 wheels w/ 24/28, works a treat. Not Period Correct Police Approved.

I have the Ultegra level RS-81 C24 wheels set-up w/ a wide range cassette for climbing/descending the most challenging routes on the CF Merckx: Light, stiff, smooth riding and not affected by cross winds with an AL braking surface: Win.

Did a 50 mile fixed gear ride on Father's Day into a steady head winds w/ thunderstorms and gusty winds predicted.
Fitted the deeper section 16 bladed spoke RS-30 front wheel on the old FG.
The forecast was accurate and the more aerodynamic wheel didn't hurt.
Did it help?
Just knowing that pre-ride preparation was good is a placebo benefit that I'll take when the conditions are not so great and it's still a long way to go.
A bit more aero won't hurt either on those long solos either....

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Old 07-16-16, 09:17 AM
  #31  
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.
...thankfully, I am way too slow for aerodynamics to be a consideration. Saves me some money.
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Old 07-16-16, 09:23 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
I like the current wheels, too. I would stick with those wheels if you still have them. C-record hubs are hard to beat, even if they do not match the rest of the tri-color group you are gathering.

Are you sticking with 126mm (6400 7-speed) drivetrain, or are you thinking a 130mm drivetrain (6401 or ST-6400/6400EX 8-speed)?

+1 that those Dura-Ace wheels would look out of place on your Masi. Another option is 7400/7402/7402 hubs. Really smooth hubs and would fit in with the 6400 group. I'm also partial to box-section rims, and a think a nice polished alloy set of rims like Mavic Module 3 would compliment the lovely chrome fork crown nicely.

When I built my KG86, I wanted to stick with vintage-looking wheels but wanted to try a modern drivetrain, so I built up a pair of Wolber tubular rims with a c-record front hub and a modern Campy 130mm rear.





Quanda bella! Now I'm sorry I've been slacking in my bf lurking.
She came out right purty! You got more pics? Link to the build thread?

I'll probably just go with C24's for now, and take my time building up a more correct set of wheels when I'm in the mood to ride slowly enough for people to actually see my bike.
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Old 07-16-16, 09:29 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Just knowing that pre-ride preparation was good is a placebo benefit that I'll take when the conditions are not so great and it's still a long way to go. A bit more aero won't hurt either on those long solos.....

-Bandera
Lovely Vitoose-Caboose.
I've been abusing placebos to gain an unfair advantage since my BMX days.
If placebos ever make the list of banned substances, I'd probably better just retire and save my legacy.
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Old 07-16-16, 10:11 AM
  #34  
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Since you have it all aero'd out already, respoking those wheels with stainless spokes and pulling off the stickers seems reasonable. Sure, period aero rims like Araya or Assos were more like 25-30mm deep, but it still fits in with the period silliness of the aero brakes etc. (were those actually more aero than say a campy NR? - I don't believe it)

Besides it's 2016 anyway, you can do what you want. I will expect a sub 4 hour century though...

If you wanted to be period correct that should probably be all Campy NR/SR anyway, or maybe Dura Ace. It would have been weird to see a Masi otherwise equipped.

My '78 actually came factory equipped with Dura Ace EX, but I broke the derailleurs and replaced the rest with Campy pretty early on.
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Old 07-16-16, 06:35 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
Knock some sense into me but I'd get silly retro. You have Japanese flavor going on with a mid shade dark anodized tone. Then there's the Masi story.

Depending on your weight but the rim choice: USA vintage Sun Mistral 32 rear, 24 hole front tubular. Crazy yes, but you said fast and retro. Figure out the rest for hubs but spokes DT Swiss db or WS in silver.
I'll have to buy you a beer at the Dare to get you thinking right again...
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Old 07-16-16, 06:39 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
They actually make you faster? I'm serious. I know nothing about modern wheels. I'm stuck in the seventies.
Compared to many, many of the wheels I've ridden, probably yes. Maybe it's me, but the C24 is my preference for all-around wheel. It does what all of my other wheels have done, as good or better. I could easily use them for crits, or centuries, or time trials or triathlons. If they came with a Campy hub, I'd seriously consider them for my next Wraith build.
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Old 07-16-16, 06:56 PM
  #37  
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Yes, an aero shaped rim is going allow you go faster, without going into the physics of aerodynamics, you use less energy maintaining your pace due to less drag, you also can get up to speed, and accelerate quicker with the aero wheels.

I am not a big fan of deep section wheels myself, I have Mavic GP4 on my vintage bike, and Fulcrum Racing7 LG on my contemporary ride, which are about as shallow as an "aero" rim gets. so, I am not pushing an agenda, no horse in this race/dog in the fight, etc., just offering up an explanation. Personally, I am more concerned with the lightest wheel set, that I can afford, that is still built strong enough to last, but not over built.

Ride the wheels you feel best using, or that suit your taste. Now, anyone can feel free to take this apart, we have some engineers and scientist members that can explain, in detail, exactly what is going on. I am not an aeronautical/aerospace engineer, I am an Environmental Engineer/Civil Engineer, when my employer can find a job to build

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Old 07-16-16, 06:59 PM
  #38  
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If you want to save a few bucks then get Vuelta Corsa Light wheels. Cheap, light, durable, and not offensively deep rims.
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Old 07-16-16, 08:26 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Chrome Molly View Post
If you want to save a few bucks then get Vuelta Corsa Light wheels. Cheap, light, durable, and not offensively deep rims.
Totally agreed!

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Old 07-17-16, 06:59 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
I'm sure this thread will turn into a gym shower contest, but yes, modern wheels will permit you to ride faster if your goal is to ride a century in 5 hours or less >>>>SNIP >>>>>
Thanks! I really enjoyed reading your story. And I have to add kudos to your courageous effort no irony in the least intended!

I am a mere exercise rider (though not relaxing). But I have discovered that wheel-sets (even on my vintage dinosaurs) make a significant difference. And it may not be simply restricted to aero-vs-old style depending on what you are doing.

In your case riding sub five hour centuries aero designs must be an obvious choice. But, I have to say that wheel-sets in general make a difference. And it is one that I was largely overlooking until recently. OK ... hubs had always been at the centre of my attention. But ... rims?

Some months ago replaced a training-quality set of modern, aero Shimanos (radically dished to fit my vintage frame). The replacement was a nearly NOS set of vintage Mavic GL 330's on very pristine Shimano 600 hubs (UG in rear). The difference is palpable. OK they are not aero duh!

But: my daily training is 50 - 60 minutes of max thrust as opposed to a century ever other weekend! (Laugh if you like, but even as a youth I was a sprinter nothing over 400 meters for me!) For us older dudes, a short, daily, max-workout may be a better deal. Anyway, I have cut three minutes off my record riding the same bike. Of course, modern aero-form would not be a factor on my circuit.

Still, this wheel set is just more responsive and has a different feel! The guy who sold it to me is an ex racing mechanic and sometimes still races hill-climbs at 54 years old. He told me that I was too heavy for this wheel-set (about 75 Kilo). But I tensioned up the spokes and they work brilliantly.

I do accept what you say. How could I argue? For all the rest of us who cannot match the athletics of a five hour century just get the best wheel-set you can lay your greasy hands on. Aero or not, I now accept and believe what I once read somewhere: your bike is as good as the wheel-set it rides on.
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Old 07-17-16, 07:12 AM
  #41  
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Roval was the state-of-the-art aerodynamic wheelset during the frame's stated period. They're not easy to find or cheap, and are a bit quirky, but if you want to keep things period correct...
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Old 07-17-16, 07:20 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
Mavic GL 330's (or 280's if you can find ) >>> SNIP >>>
Plus one on the GL 330's. I have a set. And if I see another, I will have my fangs out to get them. But price is a factor. I would bite on any fair offering, but if the rims come as a set, one has to include the hubs. Forunately, mine came with vintage 600's that revolve like butter. When I overhauled them with Dura Ace bearings, I found the races were pristine. For all those eBay'er squatters who wanna screw and gouge I paid under $50!
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Old 07-17-16, 04:44 PM
  #43  
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I had these built for my upcoming restomod build of a Medici triple triangle. Build will be 7800 and I wanted something that approached traditional in appearance.









11 speed Ultegra hubs and H Son Plus hoops. Unridden as of now, but I like the hubs on other bikes and the hoops on yet other bikes.
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Old 07-20-16, 07:17 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Lenton58 View Post
I am a mere exercise rider (though not relaxing). But I have discovered that wheel-sets (even on my vintage dinosaurs) make a significant difference. And it may not be simply restricted to aero-vs-old style — depending on what you are doing.

But: my daily training is 50 - 60 minutes of max thrust — as opposed to a century ever other weekend! (Laugh if you like, but even as a youth I was a sprinter — nothing over 400 meters for me!) For us older dudes, a short, daily, max-workout may be a better deal. Anyway, I have cut three minutes off my record riding the same bike. Of course, modern aero-form would not be a factor on my circuit.
Thanks for the kind compliment Lenton. We're all mere exercise riders.
And as I get older, I wish I'd focused more on the short distances, and maybe gotten into track racing. These 80+ mile rides are starting to take their toll. But I still love finishing a long ride, and flying past carbon fiber bikes on Pacific Coast Hwy on my way home, despite being exhausted.
Or being the only steel bike at the finish line of a century or event like l'Etape du California, where I feel like a bulldog at a greyhound convention.

I'm just going to throw a pair of C24's on it for now, and take my time and build up a neat pair of more vintage wheels like Peregrine's for it at my leisure.
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Old 07-20-16, 08:07 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
>>> SNIP >>> These 80+ mile rides are starting to take their toll. But I still love finishing a long ride, and flying past carbon fiber bikes on Pacific Coast Hwy on my way home, despite being exhausted.
Or being the only steel bike at the finish line of a century >>> SNIP >>>
WOW! I don't know your age, but your performance seems impressive great for any vintage. Keep going, mate! ... even if you have to slow up a bit. I am impressed!
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Old 07-20-16, 10:12 AM
  #46  
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C-Record hubs w/ Boca ceramic bearings/ Moskva rims / Vittoria Open Paves
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Old 07-21-16, 09:32 AM
  #47  
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Lovely Moser, but 32-spoke wheels simply aren't as speedy as these modern wheels. I built up a set myself (white Velocity rims on Dura Ace 7900 hubs below), and even plunked down for 64 CX-Ray bladed $poke$. They're indeed speedier than my 32- (round) spoke wheels, but nowhere near as fast as the Dura Ace C24s (black rims on other bike below.)



I built up two of the same bike, (one a 63cm, the other a 61cm) and the smaller Schwinn with the Dura Ace wheels just floats at 24+mph, but the 32-spokers I built take noticeably more work to hold at speed. I was spent at the end of the Cool Breeze double-metric on these 32 spoke wheels, and I wasn't able to hold a 20mph avg.



And thanks Lenton, but you should see some of the old guys down here in the San Diego area who are retired and can dedicate their time to riding & training. I'm 47, but there are guys in their 60's who beat me like a rented mule.

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