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mild curiosity, 1930's era racing sulky tires 28"

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mild curiosity, 1930's era racing sulky tires 28"

Old 07-19-16, 10:03 AM
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crank_addict
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mild curiosity, 1930's era racing sulky tires 28"

Was up in the barn loft yesterday and found some forgotten racing sulky wheels and tires. The radial lacing is interesting but more is the tire size. Curious if they used the same for bikes back then.

[IMG]DSC_0791 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSC_0790 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSC_0788 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSC_0787 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSC_0786 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 07-19-16, 10:06 AM
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[IMG]DSC_0785 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSC_0784 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSC_0782 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSC_0781 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 07-19-16, 10:07 AM
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That is probably 700B, or 28X1 1/2

Tire Sizing Systems

Edit:

What is up with the capped axle? Are you sure it was off a bike and not a cart of some sort?
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Old 07-19-16, 10:11 AM
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Wilfred, thanks for the insight. The title states its from an old racing sulky, not a bike.
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Old 07-19-16, 10:19 AM
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Sulky, eh? I had to google that.

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Old 07-19-16, 10:55 AM
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Ah! I thought it was a typo and you meant 'silky', which I assumed was an archaic term for silk casing racing tires
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Old 07-19-16, 11:41 AM
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I picked up a couple of Sulky hubs from Toronto shops where they serviced horse racing machines. The gone-and-developed Greenwood racetrack was a popular east-end destination since 1874. My impression is the wheels were closer to 26". I have lots of 12 gauge spokes if you need a spare.

Here's a CCM shell, the other is a complete Union.
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Old 07-19-16, 07:49 PM
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^ neato

I only did a quick measurement on them (see tape measure pics above). No time to take on further projects but was curious if these smaller wheels might be similar to what was used on bicycles in the 1930's.
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Old 07-20-16, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
^ neato

I only did a quick measurement on them (see tape measure pics above). No time to take on further projects but was curious if these smaller wheels might be similar to what was used on bicycles in the 1930's.
The rims are actually larger in diameter than modern 700c, and your picture seems to indicate they are larger than the obsolete 27" size. As per the link I posted, there was a size called 700B that used to be used on bikes that is similar in size.
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Old 07-20-16, 09:40 AM
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A tape measure laid across isn't exactly a precision measurement device. Even so, let's say that they are 25.0" from edge to edge. That is 635 mm. The BSD or Bead Seat Diameter is where the bead sits below the edge, so it will be less than this. Typically about a quarter inch. Subtract that from the diameter (x2 for both sides) and you get 622.3 mm. Therefore this would appear to be 622/700c.
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Old 07-20-16, 09:44 AM
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Were talking early Pneumatics here, a 28" singletube tire mounted to a 25" wood or clad rim. Pretty simple stuff.

The rim measurement and profile looks similar to the wood or steelclad 28" rims or yore. All the Singletubes I've found on bicycle rims from the teen's and 20's seem to have a chain pattern and are specifically bicycle, not to say the tire wasn't or could not be fitted. I've never seen it.

Logically, Bicycle tires were most likely less expensive as I'm reasonably confident there are more bicycles than carts in the word.

Which begs the question, were 28" Singletube bicycle tires ever used on Sulkies?

Last edited by Velognome; 07-20-16 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 07-20-16, 01:04 PM
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Yup, standard wheels are 28" and juniors are 24". Found it somewhere on web.
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Old 07-20-16, 05:45 PM
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What's the gauge on the spokes? They look huge.

While perhaps these rims were used on a bike, there is no way they were ever used on a racing bike. Too heavy. Prior to 35, wood was the choice of rim, post 35, aluminum.

I have seen prewar pics of tour bikes with radial spoking so nothing new there.
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Old 07-21-16, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I picked up a couple of Sulky hubs from Toronto shops where they serviced horse racing machines. The gone-and-developed Greenwood racetrack was a popular east-end destination since 1874. My impression is the wheels were closer to 26". I have lots of 12 gauge spokes if you need a spare.
My old CCM literature lists both 26" & 28" sulky wheels, so yours may well be 26".
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Old 07-21-16, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Velognome View Post
Were talking early Pneumatics here, a 28" singletube tire mounted to a 25" wood or clad rim. Pretty simple stuff.

The rim measurement and profile looks similar to the wood or steelclad 28" rims or yore. All the Singletubes I've found on bicycle rims from the teen's and 20's seem to have a chain pattern and are specifically bicycle, not to say the tire wasn't or could not be fitted. I've never seen it.

Logically, Bicycle tires were most likely less expensive as I'm reasonably confident there are more bicycles than carts in the word.

Which begs the question, were 28" Singletube bicycle tires ever used on Sulkies?
Yes, these look like sulky tyres. Bicycles tyres of the day typically used a knob or stud type pattern to increase traction by the driven rear wheel on the predominantly unpaved roads. Since there is no drive function on a sulky tire they can get by with ribs which cause less rolling resistance on the straights but still provide lateral grip in the turns.

Some single tube sulky tyres also had threaded metal studs, so that they could bolted to the rim to prevent creep and roll-off, which would be more of a concern on a wheel which you can't lean into a corner.

So, while you could use bicycle tyres on a sulky, there would be some disadvantages; less speed on the straights and a higher probability of creep and roll-off with single tube versions.

FYI, I've also seen wired-on sulky tyres from this period.
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Old 07-21-16, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
What's the gauge on the spokes? They look huge.

While perhaps these rims were used on a bike, there is no way they were ever used on a racing bike. Too heavy. Prior to 35, wood was the choice of rim, post 35, aluminum.

I have seen prewar pics of tour bikes with radial spoking so nothing new there.
My old CCM cataloguess list 12-14 gauge for sulky spokes.

The choice of wooden versus steel rims and the crossover was highly market dependent. In Canada, CCM was the dominant company and the switch to steel occurred in 1927, yet prior to that they routinely provided steel rims to other markets such as Australia. That may have largely been a part of the British Empire connection, as the British seemed to favour Westwood steel rims and Raleigh was marketed as the 'All Steel Bicycle".

Also interesting to note that butted spokes were available as far bask as the 1920s.
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Old 07-21-16, 06:04 PM
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Last time I was at the state fair, most of the sulkys were running 700c bike tires.
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