Modern components for classic frame
 

In lieu of ordering a custom lugged frame, I came across a beautiful 1969 Schwinn Paramount frame. I would like to install modern componentry instead of older classic Campagnolo components that it originally shipped with.

The Paramount is frame-only, with no headset, crankset, bottom bracket, seatpost, handlebars, brakes, or wheels. My goal is to install a modern wide-range indexed derailleurs, modern sealed headset and bottom bracket, modern dual-pivot brakes, etc. I had the rear triangle respaced to 130mm from the original 120mm spacing by an experienced frame builder, so it is aligned properly. He said 120mm to 130mm spread is as far as he would recomment.

Here is what I was thinking:
Chris King threaded headset
High quality sealed bottom bracket (Phil Woods, or is there something as good but cheaper?
Sealed hubs, with 9 to 11 cog rear cassette
New crankset (should this be a triple or a compact double?)
New polished rims
Brooks B-17 or Professional saddle (I have one of each already)
Randonneur handlebars, with bar end shifters (I don't like brifters)
Dual-pivot brakes with enough reach and clearance for 700Cx28 or 700Cx32 tires.
I may install nice polished stainless fenders as well, depending on spacing.

I'm basically a C&V retrogrouch, and my other Paramount has full Nuovo Record Campy componentry.

The gearing is the question--I want a wide range setup, with very low gearing so I can ride up mountain roads.
I know many use compact double cranks with wide range (11-32) 10 or 11 rear cogs. But does this work as well as a 24-36-46 triple?

Thoughts and recommendations?

I'd go for a 10-speed drivetrain with Dura Ace bar end shifters. As far as the gearing goes a lot of that is dependent on how strong you are. 11-32 in back with a 50/34 in front is plenty low enough for me, and since your Paramount frame is not likely to be designed well for carrying a load, I wouldn't worry that much about going a lot lower than that. I know that like "sub-compact" doubles exist for 46/30 up front if you do feel like you need to go lower.

Also I use Tektro R539 brakes with RL340 levers and find the braking performance to be excellent from both the drops and the hoods.

decide what gears you really want.
Here's a compact double 9-sp I set up with Miche custom cassette. Frame is a '92 Viner CX
24" to 96" in 6-7" steps. 130 mm rear dropouts.
I climb 400' to my house at the end of every ride.
I spent some time picking each cog, ordered the closest full Miche cassette and individual cogs to swap out.
If you're patient Outside Outfitters repackages your order and has the best price on these parts.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../aP5100017.jpg
Here's the gear analysis
I'm running 38mm tires and you need to change that on the chart to see my actual gearing.
I have 5 narrow cogs on the fast end and 4 wide on the slow end. It acts like two 1x9s.
The low gears on the 42T ring are spaced pretty well for most climbing, but for the really steep stuff, I go to 50" on the granny ring for approach and then have really little steps I can change up and down as the grade waxes and wanes.
Also really good gears to climb steep from a dead stop.

I designed the compact double after spending a few years refining my Raleigh Cyclotourise triple, Half-steps plus granny up front, wide-7 in the rear. I cold-set the rear triangles to 126mm and the wheelset is Phil freewheel hub. Suntour winner freewheel, 12-32t. This is refined by picking chainrings rather than cogs.
22" to 104" (32mm tires) in about 5" steps. I reproduced it as closely as I could in the compact double, and love both gearsets.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...th_drive26.jpg

I'd go with a nice pair of centerpulls instead of dual-pivots (yes, you can use C&V cp's with aero levers), and as much silver as possible in the components.


SP
OC, OR

Fun project !

I cant offer much advice , as i'm a bit scatter brained with my own projects, ---- but I like the compact double setups better than the triples personally (and for my use)

My reasoning is likely due to my fitness , but if I am using a 10 cog rear end with the first 6 cogs closely spaced (the go fast cogs) -- the rest I can go with bigger gaps so I can have some "Oh Thank you !" gears if the little short , steep hills that surround my area turn out to be longer than expected

Most of my projects are late 80's to mid 90's era machinery though and I am using triples on them (Campy was late to the compact double party ) --- - with a triple and close ratio rear end, I almost don't notice the gearing jumps some days until I am out of gear -

I even experimented with running a MTB 12-36 rear end with a little doo-hickey called a goatlink, which spaces the derailleur out further to give it more reach ---- this was on my "daily driver" carbon bike with a compact double 50/34 , as I wanted to make an assault on a local hill climb ---- It would have worked with a long or mid cage derailleur too , but even with the link, covering a 36 tooth granny with a short cage rear was a bridge too far -- as it was, since it was a one day event, I just used the derailleur limit screws and locked out the big ring

Please excuse the late model carbon content -- just showing the pic of the bike dressed out for the event ---- the 12-36 looks odd back there but saved my chubby butt on a long sustained 8% climb -- The bike wears cyclocross bars also, -- not exactly the same as randonneur bars, but close .
I don't need that type of gearing most days though, but its nice to know it will work with a long cage derailleur

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...psmrywqvaw.jpg

Ultegra 6800 11 speed, compact 50/34 crank, 11/32cassette.
Boom!

I'm in the midst of my 3rd vintage build using modern components. A couple of gotchas you may run into... Not insurmountable but a pita:

-Headset cup diameter. Hopefully your frame requires 30.2mm as these are plentiful. Some frames are 30.0mm and these are more scarce.

-Brake bolt diameter and length. Sometimes they bolt right up, other times you have to get creative with the parts bin.

-Front brake clearance with headset bottom cup. Just encountered this with a new 105 5800 brake caliper. It's bulky on top and hits the cup. Required some spacers from abovementioned parts bin.

-Front derailleur clamp diameter. Make sure it fits your tube diameter. If not, there are shims available for this.

Good luck with the project!

+1, I had the same issue with the 5800 front brake. Filed it down just a bit in the offending area and used a couple extra washers to help it clear the headset.

Good advice, only thing I have to add is to check out the retro roadies thread if you haven't already. So many examples of great bikes based on vintage frames with modern components.

Being familiar with the hills and winds in your area (I grew up in Denver, worked and biked 11 years in Boulder, until I moved to Seattle in 1989), I'd strongly suggest a triple.

With a triple you can have good gears with tight spacing for all the rolling terrain around your area and the frequent winds, but have a granny gear with the same cassette for those steep climbs out of the Boulder area. I'd also recommend a chain catcher like the N-Gear Jump Stop to make it much easier to set up the front changer with the triple (adjust for an overshift to the granny). There are plenty of good 110/74mm BCD triple cranks out there among us C&V-er's, and rings in those BCD sizes are still readily available.

I use 8-speed cassettes (being heavily invested in 8-speed brifters) made from loose Shimano cogs that I've customized for my cadence, etc. preferences - 12-14-15-16-18-21-24-28 with 24-36-46 rings. That range suits my 67-year-old legs, but rings a few teeth bigger would work for someone younger and stronger. Higher speed count cassettes are harder to customize to that degree. And remember that as chains get thinner for higher count cassettes, they don't last as long.

I'm quite happy with dual pivot Shimano brakes with Kool Stop salmon pads, and didn't have any clearance issue with the Ultegra sealed headset now on my '79 Miyaya 912, or the Chris King on the '87 Marinoni. The correct brake reach is defined by the frame and wheels. The short reach DP's on my Marinoni and medium reach on the Miyata feel very similar and plenty strong enough.

here's Sheldon's gear calculator
need to get you guys conversant on gear inches and steps.

I second a triple. Sugino makes fine triples and you can run them with shimano sealed BBs which will save you some serious coin over a phil wood BB. Triples can be tough to set up right on a bike with short chain stays (racing bikes) but this is a bike from 1969 so even if it's a racing bike it is likely to have more generous chain stays than a modern bike.

Alternatively get a wide compact (46/30) like this

Grand Cru Touring Hub 130mm

or this

IRD Defiant Wide Compact Road Double Crank Set (46-30T)

Sugino makes one as well

I'm a fan of roller bearing headsets. They last.

Headset Tange/IRD NeedL BlastR Roller Drive

The Retrogrouch: Roller "Needle" Bearing Headsets

Nitto makes great bars and stems.

I'm not sure what you mean by sealed hubs. Modern hubs are pretty well sealed. I'm a big fan of cartridge bearing hubs.

Suzue Ltd.

Grand Cru Touring Hub 130mm

For rims, TB 14 H Plus Son will look very sharp on an old bike.

Shimano bar ends with shimano derailleurs are hard to beat. Shimano is making it tougher to deal with triples though since the mtb stuff no longer works with road shifters. You'll have to source a 9 speed rear (which will work fine with a 10 speed set up).

Does the bike take long reach brakes? That would not surprise me since the frame is from 1969. This will limit your brake choices. Tektro makes long reach brakes. They are inexpensive and work very well. So does velo orange; paul center pulls will work as well. In fact, you probably have nutted long reach brakes in which case paul center pulls will look sharp and work well.

https://paulcomp.com/shop/components/racer-medium/

I always enjoy reading suggestions from others who share my passion for cog-by-cog and ring-by-ring custom gearing. :)

I also like the barcon suggestion -- I am delighted with the classic non-indexed ratcheting SunTours I put on my Peugeot workhorse, which has a customized half-step 12-speed transmission with 6-7% ratiometric progression from 43.6 gear-inch bottom to 93.5 gear-inch top. For longer and/or steeper hill work I would be inclined to keep the same top gear and spacing, but to add one or more larger cogs to the rear axle, which is currently only 122mm OLD (with ultra-6 freewheel). A good triple or a 110mm BCD crankset with a 34-tooth inner ring would be other sensible options.

I was running an Ultra6 with half-steps and it was great for speed in rolling hills, but not for sustained steep climbs.
That's why I went to a cyclotouriste triple with half-steps and granny.
The nice thing about an old TA Pro5vis is that Q is narrow and it functions best with a road double front derailleur (my favorite FD is Shimano 600EX).
You do need a wide bb spindle, 122mm asymmetric.
I got my chainline perfect with a 121mm SKF bb and 4mm spacer for the asymmetry.
You can get chainrings from Boulder Cycle, but find much better buys in UK and Germany.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...aaP3030001.jpg

I am with the triple group for your location. I love 50/34 and have never cared for triples but when we are at the cabin I take my only triple which makes mountain riding much more pleasant. As one ages I have found this to also help in the foothills which were once no issue for the 53/39.