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Campagnolo hub flange damage?

Old 08-05-16, 06:19 PM
  #1  
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Campagnolo hub flange damage?

I noticed these gouges in the hub on a wheel I just picked up. Is this safe at all? It is a rather nice campagnolo record high flange hub. If not, anyone know of a place I can find a replacement hub shell?

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Old 08-05-16, 06:36 PM
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Looks like crud (with salt?) and water collected at the bottom of the flange while the bike was sitting stationary for a long time. I'm you're lucky, it's just dirt that might wipe or polish off, but if it ate deep enough into the aluminum, the hub could be too questionable to use........
Just proves that one should never put away their bikes "wet"......
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Old 08-05-16, 07:11 PM
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Not a metallurgist in any form, and we have at least one I know of here, but I am with Chombi about this one. I wouldn't be looking about for a replacement hum shell, unless you find worse damage when it gets the ol' eagle eye from your friends here.

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Old 08-05-16, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
Looks like crud (with salt?) and water collected at the bottom of the flange while the bike was sitting stationary for a long time. I'm you're lucky, it's just dirt that might wipe or polish off, but if it ate deep enough into the aluminum, the hub could be too questionable to use........
Just proves that one should never put away their bikes "wet"......
I wiped off some of the grime, it has eaten into the aluminum about half a millimeter or so.
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Old 08-05-16, 07:19 PM
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That's a weird one and it looks like it's on both flanges too, eh?

Can you take a caliper to it to see if it's truly thinner in those spots? It looks almost like it's ground down, like road rash.

I have something similar on a couple of aluminum/alloy rims in the shop. It's full-on eaten into it.
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Old 08-05-16, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by francophile View Post
That's a weird one and it looks like it's on both flanges too, eh?

Can you take a caliper to it to see if it's truly thinner in those spots? It looks almost like it's ground down, like road rash.

I have something similar on a couple of aluminum/alloy rims in the shop. It's full-on eaten into it.
It is a little thinner in those spots. The other flange only has one spot that isn't too bad.
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Old 08-05-16, 08:02 PM
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A couple years back we had a thread on a Campag NR equipped bike which had been stored in a garage or shed right next to the sea. The salt air had corroded right through the anodising on the alloy parts giving the fittings the appearance of a serious skin disorder. When allowed to go long enough the crusts can build up well above the original surface of the metal.

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Old 08-05-16, 09:26 PM
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So is material missing from those regions a problem? They are jagged in texture. Is this wheel safe to ride or should I find a new hub shell?
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Old 08-06-16, 02:25 AM
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So is material missing from those regions a problem? They are jagged in texture. Is this wheel safe to ride or should I find a new hub shell?
My guess would be that the wheel hub will last a long time, however; I do not spend much time in Las Vagas. Put another way, are you a gambler and if so will you gamble with your safety, or even your life?

If it were me, I would not take the chance with that hub and seek another as quickly as I could.
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Old 08-06-16, 07:03 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by spock345 View Post
So is material missing from those regions a problem? They are jagged in texture. Is this wheel safe to ride or should I find a new hub shell?
I think the only way to tell would be to disassemble the wheels...remove the spokes, and smooth down the aluminum and re-polish...then measure the thickness of the flange to see just how much material has been lost.
But just judging from that last picture, I'd say there is quite a bit of damage and loss, and the hub in that picture looks like a goner, to me.
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Old 08-06-16, 07:46 AM
  #11  
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Your OK.
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Old 08-06-16, 08:06 AM
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I'd ride that.
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Old 08-06-16, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
I think the only way to tell would be to disassemble the wheels...remove the spokes, and smooth down the aluminum and re-polish...then measure the thickness of the flange to see just how much material has been lost.
But just judging from that last picture, I'd say there is quite a bit of damage and loss, and the hub in that picture looks like a goner, to me.
It is missing about .5mm of material. I guess time to find a new hub shell then.

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Old 08-06-16, 11:23 AM
  #14  
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I wouldn't worry about it.There is not enough material missing to cause the spoke to pull through.
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Old 08-06-16, 12:50 PM
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Without physically seeing it (the images are pretty good, though) I'd say that's a combination of ageing and corrosion. Aluminium alloys can and do age and forgings like these tend to "flake" a bit.

It also looks as if you have the beginnings of the same problem elsewhere on the hub shell.

Finding a replacement shell might be a headache just because the cups, cones & axles were all freely available for a long time so anyone with an odd shell (back in the day, anyway) just made it into a serviceable hub :-)

It depends what you are willing to spend time doing.

You could strip the hub and get it re-anodised and rebuild with good quality spokes and probably 2BA brass washers under the spoke heads, then tie and solder - doing that, load is spread a little by the washers, you've protected the material that is left in the badly affected area and slowed or stopped any corrosion elsewhere.

If you rebuild as it's currently built, x3, the load on the hub flange is sufficiently tangential that I don't think the flange will let go, but if you tie and solder, even if it does, and even given that it's the gear side, the wheel likely won't go disastrously out of true and you won't have the heel of a spoke floating about near the block and chain to potentially cause mischief - the tie / solder should keep that under control.

It's a gamble and it's a lot of faff so it depends how determined you are to save the hub.
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Old 08-06-16, 01:08 PM
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You're seeing unchecked corrosion. Since the flange is still together despite the large static load imposed by the spokes, it's reasonable to infer that the damage isn't serious. Tension doesn't spike when riding unless the rim is subjected to a serious load, so there's not much difference between a wheel sitting around and one in use. You should make an effort to prevent further corrosion, which may help, but there's no assurance.

The hub is at the beginning of the end, but it could be eons before the end happens. As for safety -- what's the worst that can happen? A small section may fatigue and fail, but the effect is similar to breaking a spoke or at worst a few. Spokes break all the time and nobody talks about it being unsafe (because it isn't) and your hub's safety is in that range. If the flange should fail, the likely consequence will be inconvenience, not injury.

Others' are saying it's a gamble, and it is, but you're gambling the chances of years of good service against a bit of inconvenience. A gamble you take every time you ride more than a mile from home, and a gamble I'd make with about the same amount of thought as I'd give dropping a nickle into a Las Vegas slot machine.
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Old 08-06-16, 01:16 PM
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i mean, how many spokes are effected? if its just 4, its not like it would be disastrous, right guys? seems pretty unlikely that even 1 would break through the hub.
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Old 08-06-16, 09:07 PM
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Well I have decided to try to find a replacement ASAP and in the mean time only use this wheel to go get coffee on weekends a mile from my house, over flat terrain.
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Old 08-06-16, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by spock345 View Post
Well I have decided to try to find a replacement ASAP and in the mean time only use this wheel to go get coffee on weekends a mile from my house, over flat terrain.
At that rate the wheel will probably outlast you.
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Old 08-07-16, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by spock345 View Post
I noticed these gouges in the hub on a wheel I just picked up. Is this safe at all? It is a rather nice campagnolo record high flange hub. If not, anyone know of a place I can find a replacement hub shell?



No good, what you are seeing is called Intergranular corrosion, bad very bad. Because you're only seeing the surface damage The damage goes way beyond the surface and goes deep into the aluminum alloy. If you were to disassemble the hub and have it inspected (X-ray) would see exactly how deep the corrosion goes. I for one would not ride it, it would become a donor hub. You can find a decent clean replacement Hub easy enough.

Lesson to everyone, clean your bikes often, and a bit of wax every now and then goes a long way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergranular_corrosion


https://www.nace.org/Corrosion-Centr...lar-Corrosion/

Different Types of Corrosion: Intergranular Corrosion - Causes and Prevention by WebCorr Corrosion Consulting Services,Corrosion Short Courses and Corrosion Expert Witness. corrosion types, corrosion forms, pipe corrosion, generalized corrosion, pitt
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Old 08-07-16, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
No good, what you are seeing is called Intergranular corrosion, bad very bad. Because you're only seeing the surface damage The damage goes way beyond the surface and goes deep into the aluminum alloy. If you were to disassemble the hub and have it inspected (X-ray) would see exactly how deep the corrosion goes. I for one would not ride it, it would become a donor hub. You can find a decent clean replacement Hub easy enough.

Lesson to everyone, clean your bikes often, and a bit of wax every now and then goes a long way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergranular_corrosion


https://www.nace.org/Corrosion-Centr...lar-Corrosion/

Different Types of Corrosion: Intergranular Corrosion - Causes and Prevention by WebCorr Corrosion Consulting Services,Corrosion Short Courses and Corrosion Expert Witness. corrosion types, corrosion forms, pipe corrosion, generalized corrosion, pitt
I just found a set of nuovo tipo hubs, I will probably rebuild these wheels with those hubs. So if anyone wants a nuovo record front hub and some parts for a rear....
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Old 08-07-16, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by spock345 View Post
I just found a set of nuovo tipo hubs, I will probably rebuild these wheels with those hubs. So if anyone wants a nuovo record front hub and some parts for a rear....

I would be interested in those parts. PM sent.
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Old 08-07-16, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by spock345 View Post
I just found a set of nuovo tipo hubs, I will probably rebuild these wheels with those hubs. So if anyone wants a nuovo record front hub and some parts for a rear....
In my experience, the bearing races and other parts of Campy Tipo hubs are much crummier quality than Nuovo Record and they are not as smooth and fail sooner. I would not build a wheel set using them...waste of money IMHO. Personally, I'd sand and buff that corrosion off your hub and see how much metal I had left and then make a decision. Honestly, it doesn't look that bad. Too make it easier you could probably remove a couple of spokes, clean it up then put the spokes back in and retrue. The article on intergranular corrosion sounds bad, but its not at all clear to me that that is what it is.
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Old 08-07-16, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
In my experience, the bearing races and other parts of Campy Tipo hubs are much crummier quality than Nuovo Record and they are not as smooth and fail sooner. I would not build a wheel set using them...waste of money IMHO. Personally, I'd sand and buff that corrosion off your hub and see how much metal I had left and then make a decision. Honestly, it doesn't look that bad. Too make it easier you could probably remove a couple of spokes, clean it up then put the spokes back in and retrue. The article on intergranular corrosion sounds bad, but its not at all clear to me that that is what it is.
I already tried a little bit of sanding and cleaning, it is thin enough that I don't feel comfortable riding them in the long term, a few bits even flaked off. This wheel set was already cobbled together with what looks like someone's spare parts. Also this hub in question has a messed up bearing race on the left side, I see too much hassle and risk for it to be worth reviving it. I have no qualms about using nuovo tipo hubs as their quality is already beyond the normandies and sunshines I have on other bikes.
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Old 08-08-16, 04:28 AM
  #25  
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My experience with Tipo's is not the same as @davester. When the bearings and surfaces are good, it is hard to tell the difference from a riders perspective. IMHO, Campy Record or Tipo hubs do not qualify as being in the "crummier quality" range for hubs.
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