Lighter Shade of Mountain Bike
08-10-16, 07:08 PM
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I'd like to extend a thanks to those who've replied and to suggestions offered! Up here Road Bikes are more desirable than Mountain so I prefer the contrarian route. The wildly popular Surly Long Haul trucker (26" wheel version) resembles an old mountain bike but with drop handlebars. Further to Dim's suggestion, that type of conversion would be a suitable configuration.
A mountain bike frame seems to provide facility for a wide range of tire sizes, is very rugged and can be set up in "pack mule" mode for hauling. Wide availability of 26" wheels and of the sheer number of bikes for relatively low cost makes the old steel framed mountain bike choice particularly attactive. I'd like to try aluminum some day, but not for anything that will be occasionally loaded down as will be the case here. I hear they can fail really badly too.
I snapped the dropout on the previous steel framed bike (GT Timberline w/ U Brakes). I don't think I'd trust aluminum to do the job.
Ponz: I could go for a Specialized Expedition like that! A good modern touring road bike is very expensive and that type of bike has almost everything one could want in a road tourer.
badger_biker, nfmisso, Jeff Neese: those are good lists and the type of bike that would work perfectly.
The single and multitrack Treks are a good choice by the sounds of things. Not many in my size ever come up for sale around here though. There is a Kuwahara Sage locally that looks interesting. I've seen it up close. He wants about $100 too much for it I think (needs new seat, original tires and has entry level components) but at least he's an original owner who kept it in nice condition.
I'll see about posting a picture of my ride.
A mountain bike frame seems to provide facility for a wide range of tire sizes, is very rugged and can be set up in "pack mule" mode for hauling. Wide availability of 26" wheels and of the sheer number of bikes for relatively low cost makes the old steel framed mountain bike choice particularly attactive. I'd like to try aluminum some day, but not for anything that will be occasionally loaded down as will be the case here. I hear they can fail really badly too.
I snapped the dropout on the previous steel framed bike (GT Timberline w/ U Brakes). I don't think I'd trust aluminum to do the job.
Ponz: I could go for a Specialized Expedition like that! A good modern touring road bike is very expensive and that type of bike has almost everything one could want in a road tourer.
badger_biker, nfmisso, Jeff Neese: those are good lists and the type of bike that would work perfectly.
The single and multitrack Treks are a good choice by the sounds of things. Not many in my size ever come up for sale around here though. There is a Kuwahara Sage locally that looks interesting. I've seen it up close. He wants about $100 too much for it I think (needs new seat, original tires and has entry level components) but at least he's an original owner who kept it in nice condition.
I'll see about posting a picture of my ride.
If you're comparing your imagined build with a Surly Long Haul Trucker (not a bad comparison) recognize that it will have a higher bottom bracket height and center of gravity, and be not quite so stable and well balanced under full load. You'll be able to carry the same stuff - many of these old mountain bike frames have chainstays and wheelbases almost as long as dedicated touring bikes like the LHT. But you'll be more aware of the load and will need to ride a little differently.
That said, you'll have more of the off-road advantage with a mountain bike conversion. You'll end up with more of a "trekking bike" than a "touring bike" and you'll be able to go more places than on a LHT. You never know when the bridge is out and you have to take a detour.
08-11-16, 06:55 AM
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My 1993 Rockhopper started as a "Sport" which means it had low end stuff. However, I bought it cheap for the frame and it's the same frame as they used on all other models. I had it stripped and powder-coated and started from scratch. I ended up using ONLY the frame (not even the original wheelset) so in my scenario it was better to start with a low-end cheap bike since I threw away almost everything else. Had it been a Comp though, I would have tried to use what came on the bike as much as possible. If yours is in good shape, you'll save a lot of money in parts that you don't need to upgrade.
The Comps definitely had better wheelsets and that's a big thing. Your bike is going to have nice rims (probably double-walled) with Deore XT hubs. The cheap single-walled rims with even cheaper Exage hubs that came on my Sport are hanging in my garage as backup, but I had to search out and purchase a nice set of wheels for my build. You don't, and that's huge.
08-11-16, 07:04 PM
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Yep! A decent set of wheels would cost me as much as the bike did.....
08-11-16, 07:13 PM
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so
I look at a $300 steel frame with $900 of well-shopped parts as being half price of a $2400 new custom steel bike that maybe doesn't have components quite as good.
Guess I'll throw my '92 Viner CX upright
(poor man's Sam Hillborne)
I look at a $300 steel frame with $900 of well-shopped parts as being half price of a $2400 new custom steel bike that maybe doesn't have components quite as good.
Guess I'll throw my '92 Viner CX upright
(poor man's Sam Hillborne)
Last edited by bulldog1935; 08-12-16 at 10:04 AM.
08-11-16, 08:15 PM
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Drop bar '93 Trek 930 I just finished:
Too stretched out for me so it is in the process of getting Rivendellized back to upright.
Too stretched out for me so it is in the process of getting Rivendellized back to upright.
08-11-16, 09:25 PM
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Here's my Rockhopper, which started life as a Rockhopper Sport. First picture is "As Found". Fairly hideous (note the color change) but the frame was straight with no dents - that's all I cared about and that's all I used. The second picture is the new build with drop bars, and the last one is how it is now, with Trekking bars. This is the one I'd probably tour with, but it's very nice as a daily driver.
Last edited by Jeff Neese; 08-11-16 at 09:30 PM.
08-11-16, 09:38 PM
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What does "Rivendellized back to upright" mean? I looks like you need a taller and shorter stem, which is pretty standard for drop-bar conversions. If you use the same stem for drop bars as you did with the flat bars, you will indeed be too stretched out, generally. Look at the pictures in the forum and you'll see almost everyone has replaced their stem. Sorry if I'm not understanding.
08-11-16, 10:02 PM
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What does "Rivendellized back to upright" mean? I looks like you need a taller and shorter stem, which is pretty standard for drop-bar conversions. If you use the same stem for drop bars as you did with the flat bars, you will indeed be too stretched out, generally. Look at the pictures in the forum and you'll see almost everyone has replaced their stem. Sorry if I'm not understanding.
The stem in the photo is a shorter replacement of the original System 1 stem. And after that it was still too long so I got a Sunlite 2-bolt quill which only has 80mm extension and is taller. Still didn't cut it. Top tube is just too long for my torso for drops.
By "Rivendellized" I mean I am putting together a cockpit that reminds me of Rivendell's builds. Bar ends, cotton, tall and swept back. Here it is (just have to hook up the brakes):
08-11-16, 11:31 PM
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Here's my Rockhopper, which started life as a Rockhopper Sport. First picture is "As Found". Fairly hideous (note the color change) but the frame was straight with no dents - that's all I cared about and that's all I used. The second picture is the new build with drop bars, and the last one is how it is now, with Trekking bars. This is the one I'd probably tour with, but it's very nice as a daily driver.
08-12-16, 07:19 AM
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Don't worry, this ain't my first rodeo
The stem in the photo is a shorter replacement of the original System 1 stem. And after that it was still too long so I got a Sunlite 2-bolt quill which only has 80mm extension and is taller. Still didn't cut it. Top tube is just too long for my torso for drops.
By "Rivendellized" I mean I am putting together a cockpit that reminds me of Rivendell's builds. Bar ends, cotton, tall and swept back. Here it is (just have to hook up the brakes):
The stem in the photo is a shorter replacement of the original System 1 stem. And after that it was still too long so I got a Sunlite 2-bolt quill which only has 80mm extension and is taller. Still didn't cut it. Top tube is just too long for my torso for drops.
By "Rivendellized" I mean I am putting together a cockpit that reminds me of Rivendell's builds. Bar ends, cotton, tall and swept back. Here it is (just have to hook up the brakes):
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Pisto.../dp/B016QRSPGQ
08-12-16, 07:23 AM
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There's always this one, if someone needs REALLY tall and REALLY short. I used one of these on my wife's bike to solve a challenging fit problem (not drop bars) and it's not a bad stem at all. It only comes as a 1" quill.
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Pisto.../dp/B016QRSPGQ
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Pisto.../dp/B016QRSPGQ
08-12-16, 08:14 AM
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On the first thread I posted to on this forum, I learned that mentioning Rivendell and/or Mr. Petersen will start a culture war.
If you don't like what Grant Petersen has written, do what you like, and knock your lights out. For 30 years, the industry and Grant Petersen have been diverging, and the industry is now creating new marketing pigeonholes (Gravel Grinder, Adventure Bike) so they can copy what Grant was writing about all along.
Dodging the culture issue, this topic is dead-on the philosophy behind Rivendell and the older Bridgestones.
If you don't like what Grant Petersen has written, do what you like, and knock your lights out. For 30 years, the industry and Grant Petersen have been diverging, and the industry is now creating new marketing pigeonholes (Gravel Grinder, Adventure Bike) so they can copy what Grant was writing about all along.
Dodging the culture issue, this topic is dead-on the philosophy behind Rivendell and the older Bridgestones.
Last edited by bulldog1935; 08-12-16 at 08:19 AM.
08-12-16, 09:32 AM
#41
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This is the previously mentioned Kuwahara Sage I have seen in person locally.
KUWAHARA "SAGE" mountain bike | mountain | Winnipeg | Kijiji
Fair market seems to be $80 CDN, which is what was offered. His text seemed aghast at the suggestion. This isn't a bike he uses anymore and can't because of a back problem. My impression is this fellow seems to be the type of person who thinks because he owns it it must be worth twice market yield. I'm passing on it - there are just too many other bikes out there.
Thanks for all the pictures examples of similar bikes. That's definitely where I'm going.
KUWAHARA "SAGE" mountain bike | mountain | Winnipeg | Kijiji
Fair market seems to be $80 CDN, which is what was offered. His text seemed aghast at the suggestion. This isn't a bike he uses anymore and can't because of a back problem. My impression is this fellow seems to be the type of person who thinks because he owns it it must be worth twice market yield. I'm passing on it - there are just too many other bikes out there.
Thanks for all the pictures examples of similar bikes. That's definitely where I'm going.
08-12-16, 12:54 PM
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the way his ad reads, I'd guess it's stolen (or maybe inherited) - the guy who wrote that didn't put that bike together and unlikely he ever bought it.
It's a very nice bike.
It's a very nice bike.
08-12-16, 07:43 PM
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Hi BD, I think the guy is legit as he is tall and that bike would be a fit. That red fork and yellow frame are factory. He's early 60's and lives in a nice place. I sent him 3 recent sales prices on Sage model ads to substantiate my current market value offer. He just doesn't recognize (or accept) that his bike isn't worth what he wants. Subconsciously he probably doesn't want to be rid of it and that's ok because it's out of my hair now.
Miyata was mentioned and that's another to add to the list. They made some kind of splined tubing(?) on a few of their models(?). It seems there are many, many old steel quality mountain bikes to choose from and the frame weights (as mentioned) are in the 6.5 pound range - perhaps a little more because of the large frame size. So that info helps in choosing. I'm not a bike collector, I only aim for a winter ride, a speedster and a hauler for around town. Upgrades to another suitable bike (if the opportunity presents itself) are always on the table.
Miyata was mentioned and that's another to add to the list. They made some kind of splined tubing(?) on a few of their models(?). It seems there are many, many old steel quality mountain bikes to choose from and the frame weights (as mentioned) are in the 6.5 pound range - perhaps a little more because of the large frame size. So that info helps in choosing. I'm not a bike collector, I only aim for a winter ride, a speedster and a hauler for around town. Upgrades to another suitable bike (if the opportunity presents itself) are always on the table.
08-12-16, 08:37 PM
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Hi BD, I think the guy is legit as he is tall and that bike would be a fit. That red fork and yellow frame are factory. He's early 60's and lives in a nice place. I sent him 3 recent sales prices on Sage model ads to substantiate my current market value offer. He just doesn't recognize (or accept) that his bike isn't worth what he wants. Subconsciously he probably doesn't want to be rid of it and that's ok because it's out of my hair now.
Miyata was mentioned and that's another to add to the list. They made some kind of splined tubing(?) on a few of their models(?). It seems there are many, many old steel quality mountain bikes to choose from and the frame weights (as mentioned) are in the 6.5 pound range - perhaps a little more because of the large frame size. So that info helps in choosing. I'm not a bike collector, I only aim for a winter ride, a speedster and a hauler for around town. Upgrades to another suitable bike (if the opportunity presents itself) are always on the table.
Miyata was mentioned and that's another to add to the list. They made some kind of splined tubing(?) on a few of their models(?). It seems there are many, many old steel quality mountain bikes to choose from and the frame weights (as mentioned) are in the 6.5 pound range - perhaps a little more because of the large frame size. So that info helps in choosing. I'm not a bike collector, I only aim for a winter ride, a speedster and a hauler for around town. Upgrades to another suitable bike (if the opportunity presents itself) are always on the table.
Speedster? No mtn bike is a speedster unless stripped down with excellent fast/narrow wheels but compared to that BRC (know it well) you'll feel like Icarus. Complete bike, krytpo lock to boot. Hmmmn
08-12-16, 09:07 PM
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In Canada, look for Specialized Rockhopper or Stumpjumper. Miyata, Miele, Rocky Mountain, GT, Tig welded Ritchey's would be affordable. Fisher Mountain bikes before they became Gary Fisher. Norco made a few that were worth something. Bianchi Grizzly is another possibility. Brodie would be another choice. There is still good value in buying some of these older frames, they haven't gotten crazy expensive yet.
08-12-16, 10:21 PM
#46
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It's not unreasonable. You said yourself you have limited availability, that can easily double market value.. Trying to beat him down to $80 is a waste of time. It also has bonus low rider mounts on the front.
Speedster? No mtn bike is a speedster unless stripped down with excellent fast/narrow wheels but compared to that BRC (know it well) you'll feel like Icarus. Complete bike, krytpo lock to boot. Hmmmn
Speedster? No mtn bike is a speedster unless stripped down with excellent fast/narrow wheels but compared to that BRC (know it well) you'll feel like Icarus. Complete bike, krytpo lock to boot. Hmmmn
The current BRC is the winter bike (you know this thing?) and only one I've got. The speedster would be a road bike and the bike quest that started this thread will be the around town "trekker" hauler. I have a line on a top tier Raleigh Mountain Tour "Elk" something from the mid 80's so we'll see how that goes.
08-12-16, 10:27 PM
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In Canada, look for Specialized Rockhopper or Stumpjumper. Miyata, Miele, Rocky Mountain, GT, Tig welded Ritchey's would be affordable. Fisher Mountain bikes before they became Gary Fisher. Norco made a few that were worth something. Bianchi Grizzly is another possibility. Brodie would be another choice. There is still good value in buying some of these older frames, they haven't gotten crazy expensive yet.
08-19-16, 07:13 AM
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I think perhaps anything with a Reynolds 531 ATB tubeset might work for weight too. There was an old Raleigh Ozark (mit U-Brake) that used this tubing which was apparently quite a nice ride. If anyone knows any other mountain bikes made with this tubing I'd be glad to hear from you.
08-19-16, 08:35 AM
#49
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This Trek 930 came in at just over 25 lbs without the bags on it. It has 1.75 Panaracer T-servs which help shave off some weight.
P4120228 by galoot_loves_tools, on Flickr
P4120228 by galoot_loves_tools, on Flickr
08-20-16, 06:39 AM
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I think perhaps anything with a Reynolds 531 ATB tubeset might work for weight too. There was an old Raleigh Ozark (mit U-Brake) that used this tubing which was apparently quite a nice ride. If anyone knows any other mountain bikes made with this tubing I'd be glad to hear from you.