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Old brakes vs. newer rims. Weinmann centerpulls too wide...

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Old brakes vs. newer rims. Weinmann centerpulls too wide...

Old 08-11-16, 08:59 AM
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Just to clarify, the Dia Compe CP brakes were a license built version of the Weinmanns. Calling them a copy implies that they were unauthorized duplicates, but they were not.

I suppose it is possible that there were small differences due to production variance, but I never noticed any during my years as a bike mechanic. Then again, I never took a micrometer to them either.
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Old 08-11-16, 09:30 AM
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Kool-Stop Eagle 2 pads using the thick washers (or similar) should get you in the ballpark.
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Old 08-11-16, 09:46 AM
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I know about licensed duplicate thing, but something has to be different. I will do the measurements in a while and find out. The Weinnmanns did not come on the bike, and there's no telling where they came from.,,,,BD
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Old 08-11-16, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 50voltphantom
Kool-Stop Eagle 2 pads using the thick washers (or similar) should get you in the ballpark.
Yes, this.
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Old 08-11-16, 10:17 AM
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V brake Pads Have longer threaded posts so adding spacers Is an approach .

KS does make a set like that , Eagle 2 is one, they have slip in pad versions too ..
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Old 08-11-16, 10:36 AM
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the reach is shorter on the front brakes, whether DiaCompe or Weinmann, but they're the same calipers and match the measurements in the Rueda Tropical diagram
MAFAC, Dia-Compe & Paul Centerpull Brake Specs : La Rueda Tropical

and again, any pad has to fit the Raleigh front fork - rear is more forgiving
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Old 08-11-16, 04:29 PM
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Before... rear.



After... rear.




Before... front.



After... front.




On the front, I had some cleat washers, slotted rectangular things.. They fit in between the shoes and left enough thread to tighten them up. On the rear, some old Tektro pads and washers. I didn't have the hardware for the other set of shoes, and I don't believe they would have cleared the forks anyway. The result? Better looks, and WAY better rear brakes. Better than the fronts even. I am going to try and pick up some V brake hardware, and check for sure if they will clear the fork. I might be able to buzz of some of the rear of the shoes near the fork. I don't know what holds them together other than the construction itself. I mean if I buzz off the rear of the pads, will they eventually shoot off into the sunset?,,,,BD
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Old 08-11-16, 04:41 PM
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They're also both 610's, so a set of sidepulls would have worked too I guess.,,,,BD
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Old 08-11-16, 07:48 PM
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A discernable diff between Weinmann and DiaCompe centerpulls ca. 1970s and 80s was that the Weinmanns had a tooth in one arm that projected into a channel in the other arm. That guided the arms to be synchronous in applying force and in releasing, even if some crud was present or a difference in return spring force existed .

The DiaCompe [near] copies lacked that feature. I assumed that Weinmann chose to not license that design feature, and DiaCompe chose to honor the license.

The Weinmanns seemed to be firmer, less flexible - better in metallurgy, as well as in design.
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Old 08-11-16, 08:35 PM
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Interesting. I don't remember that, but it's been a long time. While I've worked on both I only owned the Weinmanns.

Curious about this, I just went and looked at the Gran Compe 610 reissues (sort of) that I got for my Mercian -- and they do have the tooth. It's made of some sort of slippery plastic. No doubt at this point any patents on the tooth have run out.
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Old 08-11-16, 08:51 PM
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I think it's a cap over the nub. I have seen that before on some Dia Compes, though it's been a while. I am fairly certain they weren't resissues at any rate.,,,,BD
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Old 08-11-16, 09:10 PM
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I have noticed the Dia Compe version were a little mushy, and seemed to use more cable to do the same amount of work. The Gran Compes are awesome though, especially with the orange brake shoes. Like riding a new bike.,,,,BD
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Old 08-11-16, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Bikedued
I think it's a cap over the nub. I have seen that before on some Dia Compes, though it's been a while. I am fairly certain they weren't resissues at any rate.,,,,BD
I can confirm that it is a small cap over the nub. When I took apart my brakes for cleaning I found that oddly enough only my front caliper had the little plastic cap over the nub.

This thread has been very useful as I have encountered this same issue with using narrow rims on my Raleigh.
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Old 08-12-16, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bikedued
I am going to try and pick up some V brake hardware, and check for sure if they will clear the fork. I might be able to buzz of some of the rear of the shoes near the fork. I don't know what holds them together other than the construction itself. I mean if I buzz off the rear of the pads, will they eventually shoot off into the sunset?,,,,BD
Richard Sachs has posted photos of him doing exactly that to make Kool Stop Thinlines clear the forks on his cyclocross team bikes.
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Old 08-12-16, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
Interesting. I don't remember that, but it's been a long time. While I've worked on both I only owned the Weinmanns.

Curious about this, I just went and looked at the Gran Compe 610 reissues (sort of) that I got for my Mercian -- and they do have the tooth. It's made of some sort of slippery plastic. No doubt at this point any patents on the tooth have run out.
I grind that tooth off as it just causes problems if the groove gets dirty.
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Old 08-12-16, 03:48 PM
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If the groove gets dirty, take off the outermost caliper arm, and clean it out? If you're going to use up the time taking it off to grind the tooth off, why not do that instead? Grinding that part off probably doesn't help much with braking power either, because it also keeps the calipers aligned under a load while braking to some degree. It probably lessens the load on the bushings as well. If you think there can't be that much force at play, take the wheel off, and try putting a couple of fingers between the brake shoes and squeeze the brake lever.,,,,BD
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Old 08-12-16, 04:28 PM
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Well, after a lot of messing around back and forth with brake shoes, cable length, etc etc etc etc.. I give up. It's not a restoration after all. I like the centerpulls, but the front brake is showing signs of being too long for a 27 inch wheel, and barely short enough for a 700 rim, which is probably what this bike came with anyway. It definitely came from another bike, as the shoes are at or near the top of the slots on either rim. Frustrating work with as hot as it is here the last few weeks. Are there shorter centerpulls than 610's? I am ready to throw some 600 sidepulls on it. The braking power is amazing with the V brake pads, so I may try to use those. Does anyone have an original 78 Super Course so I know what brakes to look for?,,,,BD
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Old 08-12-16, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bikedued
Well, after a lot of messing around back and forth with brake shoes, cable length, etc etc etc etc.. I give up. It's not a restoration after all. I like the centerpulls, but the front brake is showing signs of being too long for a 27 inch wheel, and barely short enough for a 700 rim, which is probably what this bike came with anyway. It definitely came from another bike, as the shoes are at or near the top of the slots on either rim. Frustrating work with as hot as it is here the last few weeks. Are there shorter centerpulls than 610's? I am ready to throw some 600 sidepulls on it. The braking power is amazing with the V brake pads, so I may try to use those. Does anyone have an original 78 Super Course so I know what brakes to look for?,,,,BD
I believe that there are some Gran Compe 450 center pull brakes that were made at some point in the late 70's/early 80's.
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Old 08-12-16, 04:42 PM
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Wow... I just found the catalog page for the 78 Super Course. Thanks Kurt! Anyway. Check the front brake out?? The shoes are very near the top of the slots, which is the problem I am running into. I guess I am out of luck, and should switch to sidepulls. Bummer.,,,,BD

https://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_Raleigh_Cat_78_7_LG.jpg
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Old 08-12-16, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by spock345
I believe that there are some Gran Compe 450 center pull brakes that were made at some point in the late 70's/early 80's.
Yeah they did. I remember when they came on the Univega Specialissima. There were never many short reach CP around. I think Zeus had some too, maybe others. Shortly after that cantilevers made a come back and they pretty much replaced CP for touring.

Oddly enough, there is a Gran Compe 450 reissue that is part of the current Dia Compe line up. Seems like it's mostly for the JDM, but I'm sure you could get some if you really wanted.

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https://***********************/gran-co...-reach-42-55m/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dia-Comp...-/201368436383
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Old 08-12-16, 05:28 PM
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Well, hell. I think I just got it. The slots weren't too short, the taper from the caliper to the brake shoe mounting surfaces, was cutting into the adjustment curve. Still in the trying stages, but it looks promising. I filed away at that area, and it seems to be juuuuust enough to get the pads high enough and aligned. Fingers crossed, and I will check back in with the results. Thanks for the help so far!,,,,BD
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Old 08-12-16, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
Yeah they did. I remember when they came on the Univega Specialissima. There were never many short reach CP around. I think Zeus had some too, maybe others. Shortly after that cantilevers made a come back and they pretty much replaced CP for touring.

Oddly enough, there is a Gran Compe 450 reissue that is part of the current Dia Compe line up. Seems like it's mostly for the JDM, but I'm sure you could get some if you really wanted.

(no affiliation)
Gran Compe NGC450 Centerpull Brakeset: Mid/Long Reach 42-55m - Bike Recyclery

New Dia Compe Gran Compe GC450 Alloy Centre Pull Brake Caliper Silver Retro | eBay
I am rather liking the styling on some of Dia Compe's reissued center pulls. If I didn't already have a bunch of Weinmann's lying about and actually had some bikes needing short reach brakes I would consider a set.
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Old 08-12-16, 06:22 PM
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$226 for a front and rear set? No way for me to justify that, especially for this bike.,,,,BD
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Old 08-12-16, 06:29 PM
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Well, it worked. I got the last 16th inch or so that I needed. What was happening, was the tapered part of the arm infringed on the adjustment. You could go high enough, but the washer/nut, would hit the taper, and force it back down. I really didn't remove much at all, and the pads hit the rim square, and not too low or too high. The rear brakes only issue was the shoes not extending far enough to stop the over rotation of the calipers. All good, and good enough brakes to lock the rear tire up if I so desired. Modulation is good, not perfect, but good.,,,,BD





And the blurry head on shot, it was getting dark on me.

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Old 08-12-16, 06:38 PM
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The shoes tucked right into the forks, and when released you can get the tire out. Can't ask for much more than that I guess. If you want to run long pads on the front of this era of Raleigh, thinline pads will work, and provide decent power.,,,,BD
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