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Old brakes vs. newer rims. Weinmann centerpulls too wide...

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Old brakes vs. newer rims. Weinmann centerpulls too wide...

Old 08-10-16, 07:19 PM
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Old brakes vs. newer rims. Weinmann centerpulls too wide...

I started messing around with the old beater gold Super Course, and I ran into an issue with the brakes. I had a set nice set of wheels I just picked up, with Sun Mistral rims and non helicomatic 1986 hubs. Well, the Super Course is the last gen before sidepulls, as it is a 78 model, and my 80 has sidepulls. The issue is that the Weinmann centerpulls are just about maxed out trying to reach inward to hit the rims. I can see the heads of the mounting bolts for cripes sake. The brake shoes are Cane Creek Grey Matter, so not exactly thinline. They're about as thick as Continentals and the like. I figured it would work, but I had noticed issues trying to use Weinmann concave rims as well. They are slightly wider. It was 1978, rims were already getting narrower, but I guess these are too narrow.

Do I?

Suck it up and put old wide rims on it?

Find even thicker brake shoes, if they even exist?

Bypass the centerpull mount(s), and put on some slightly newer sidepulls. The reach is out there, though I haven't measured the difference from my 80 model. The front one is easy to do away with, but the rear will bug the hell out of me, having the hoop mount with nothing in it. If I am not using it, I'd rather it not be there, but I also refuse to cut it off.,,,,BD
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Old 08-10-16, 07:33 PM
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Now that this kind of issue is fresh in my mind, I need to check the Fuji Newest brake width before I have the tubular wheels built.,,,,BD
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Old 08-10-16, 07:38 PM
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I have a similar problem with the the Frankenbike. The wheels are 1980s with 700c Omega V Rims and the brakes and frame are 1970s Boom Bike. Only discovered after fitting. They seem to stop adequately in the dry but not properly tested and to get enough leverage the calipers will need to be adjusted v close to the rim. The levers are 1970s Dia compe and bars are standard upright bend from a girls bike on hard rubbish.



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Old 08-10-16, 07:56 PM
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I actually like the centerpulls, which is the sad part of the whole deal. I want the bike to be more like my 80 model as well, but with a different group. The 78 has retrofitted Blue line, and the 80 model has Cyclone M-II. I yanked the fenders off of the 78, and started turning it back into a road bike. Also the brakes will have to be nutted if they're sidepull. I bet I have something in the stash that will work. Time to start digging.

I also wondered if all centerpulls across brands, have similar pivot point widths?

I have some Mafac Racers, newer type with red labels. Those at least have adjustable post mount shoes. They may work just fine, and I can keep the narrow rims and centerpulls too. Hmmmm,,,,BD

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Old 08-10-16, 08:54 PM
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Can you add washers on the inside of the calipers to put the pads a touch closer to the rims?
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Old 08-10-16, 08:54 PM
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You could put washers between the brake arms and the brake pad carriers. That moves the pads closer to the rims.
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Old 08-10-16, 08:57 PM
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Lol
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Old 08-10-16, 09:03 PM
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A possible solution:

Try a conical washer set between the inside of the caliper arm and the brake shoe. I've used these to overcome adjustment problems with older brakes and found that they push the shoes closer to the rim which is helpful when converting to narrower rims. Sorry, I don't have a current source.

Good luck.

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Old 08-10-16, 09:15 PM
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I ran Rigida 1320 rims with Weinmann CP for 30 years and that many thousand miles on my old Raleigh.
The trick is getting proper alignment in the pads.
I've tried them all, and the hands-down best brakes with these calipers is Kool Stop Dura cartridges - these have the widest-ranging spherical washer of any ever made.
They self-align and self-toe if you follow the installation instructions.
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Old 08-10-16, 09:15 PM
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I'm never too picky about exact matches of stuff.

I think I put this style (not exactly) of brake shoes onto my Litespeed that I'm running center pulls on (Franken-Build). Just put most of the washers (the thicker ones) to the inside. They are designed to go in pairs for swivel adjustment.



BRAKE SHOES Clarks V Moutain Bike 70mm-XTR BOLT-ON - Walmart.com

There are also shorter shoes with long studs.


BRAKE SHOES Clarks V Moutain Bike 55mm-BOLT-ON - Walmart.com

However, some brands are deeper than the actual brake tracks... and will take out any of your decals
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Old 08-10-16, 09:24 PM
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Raleigh front fork won't clear those.
It will take Supra in the rear, but nothing longer than Continental in front.
Originally Posted by bulldog1935
I ran Rigida 1320 rims with Weinmann CP for 30 years and that many thousand miles on my old Raleigh.
The trick is getting proper alignment in the pads.
I've tried them all, and the hands-down best brakes with these calipers is Kool Stop Dura cartridges - these have the widest-ranging spherical washer of any ever made.
They self-align and self-toe if you follow the installation instructions.
what he said
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Old 08-10-16, 09:25 PM
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I will have to see how much thread there is on the Grey Matter shoes. They are standard old school style, with capped nuts.,,,,BD
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Old 08-10-16, 09:31 PM
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Other than Paul Comp, are there any black anodised centre pulls?
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Old 08-10-16, 09:49 PM
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Well, I contorted myself into all kinds of different shapes, getting to the back of the garage. Guess what rims the Fuji Newest has on it, with Gran Compe centerpulls. Yep, the exact same Mistral rims I am trying to use on the Super Course. They fit perfect with no issues at all. There has to be a different pivot point width on the GC's, that let you use narrower rims. Either that, or the lower parts of the legs are further inward. Last I checked these brakes were still available on ebay. I might have to make a purchase, hehe.,,,,BD


This is full open position, so yeah, they will most likely work. I will make a reach check when I get off of work tomorrow. Well, not full open, since the cable is caught on the edge of the channel it belongs in. If the current brakes on the SC were open this far though, the brake shoes would be a 1/2" or more from the rim.


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Old 08-10-16, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bulldog1935
I ran Rigida 1320 rims with Weinmann CP for 30 years and that many thousand miles on my old Raleigh.
Yeah, I was going to say Rigida 1320 rims and Weinmann center pulls was a very common configuration. Narrow rims are not something that was invented yesterday...

Certainly some brake pads are thicker than others. Besides, those old ones look half worn down, which is making the issue worse. I don't know the dura stops, but I'm sure there's something out there that will give you the reach you need.
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Old 08-10-16, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Senior Ryder 00
A possible solution:

Try a conical washer set between the inside of the caliper arm and the brake shoe. I've used these to overcome adjustment problems with older brakes and found that they push the shoes closer to the rim which is helpful when converting to narrower rims. Sorry, I don't have a current source.

Good luck.

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Old 08-10-16, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GTizzy
Other than Paul Comp, are there any black anodised centre pulls?
Zeus 2000 came in black, if you are interested in vintage. These are extremely rare today I'm sure, but they were one of the most trick centerpull brakes ever made, and were intended to compete with campy record sidepulls.
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Old 08-10-16, 10:14 PM
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It also needs a new headset, but that can be found locally. I will try to pick that up this weekend. It has two adjustments at the moment. Indexed bearings, or rattling and rocking. It's the original 78 headset, and has seen less than stellar care before I got it. It's due.,,,,BD
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Old 08-10-16, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Primitive Don
Can you add washers on the inside of the calipers to put the pads a touch closer to the rims?
That's a good idea, thanks!
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Old 08-11-16, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by GTizzy
Other than Paul Comp, are there any black anodised centre pulls?
Both Tektro and Campagnolo have new manufacture center pull brakes (it is possible Tektro makes the brakes for Campy, I have heard that they do it for other similar models).


Campagnolo Rear Aero Brake Center Pull, For Time Trial/Triathlon Bikes
TEKTRO USA

It looks like Dia Compe is making new manufacture center pull brakes too (silver only).

Dia-Compe #610 Centerpull Brake
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Old 08-11-16, 05:13 AM
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I went back and looked at photos of my bike with skinny rims and Supra rear, Continental front



these pads are quite thick and may be the best choice for the CP with skinny rims
I'm also using Paul moons for straddle cable yokes, and I believe these improve the straddle cable vector and give you more brakes - the straddle cable yokes used in this post are also a good choice and likely more cost-effective (though the Paul moons make brake adjustment much easier)

Last edited by bulldog1935; 08-11-16 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 08-11-16, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bikedued
Last I checked these brakes were still available on ebay. I might have to make a purchase, hehe.,,,,BD

Those are the best looking CP's, imo
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Old 08-11-16, 05:52 AM
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they're exact copies of Weinmann
The best thought-out CP are Mafac because of the near-infinite pad adjustment
ok, second-best - Paul has more adjustment because of their pad spherical washer

Compass sells a wedge-washer that gives toe-in to Mafac brakes
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Old 08-11-16, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman
Those are the best looking CP's, imo

Right? They look a little like Weinmanns, but have the finish of a btand new Nitto stem.,,,,BD
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Old 08-11-16, 08:45 AM
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They cannot be an exact copy, if the same general thickness of shoes ends up with the calipers bowed in that severely trying to get close enough to the rim. I will take some measurements so I can get what is actually causing the problem. Pictures at around two, if I get off of work at noon like I have been lately.,,,,BD
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