Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Raleigh Hate

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Raleigh Hate

Old 08-16-16, 08:29 AM
  #51  
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,229

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 174 Posts
If anyone is feeling inspired by the previous story, and they're small...



Vintage 1984/85 Raleigh Team U.S.A road bike - $200 (Willow grove)



image 1 of 15






© craigslist - Map data © OpenStreetMap



(google map)

condition: excellent
make / manufacturer: Raleigh
model name / number: Team USA
serial number: 4KN0091

more ads by this user



20in./51cm. frame. Super clean and all original except Brooks sadle and Trek iso tech 2 tires. Awesome patriotic red,white,and blue American flag paint scheme. Some minor scuffs,scrapes,or scratches but overall very good condition ready to ride. $200.00 OBO. Doug
show contact info
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 09:22 AM
  #52  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,407 Times in 908 Posts
It's 4:50 pm, and your lug file guy is thinking of Guinness......

Originally Posted by djkashuba
Raleigh finish work can absolutely be casual.


RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 09:24 AM
  #53  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,407 Times in 908 Posts
Pretty close, for me. They're not Schwinns. Just a thing, but it carries some water.
Originally Posted by bulldog1935
Because they weren't a Varsity. ....
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 09:54 AM
  #54  
Steel80's
 
vinfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 640

Bikes: Breezer Venturi, Breezer Lightning Pro, Schwinn Peloton

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
I've had a couple of Gran Prix's, a Record, and an early Technium. I didn't have a problem with Raleigh's workmanship (maybe I didn't look close enough!), I just don't much care for their fit and handling.
vinfix is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 10:33 AM
  #55  
Senior Member
 
shipwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,480
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
It's 4:50 pm, and your lug file guy is thinking of Guinness......
This one was made in Ireland, looks like it was made right after a liquid lunch. It looks cracked, but isn't.
[IMG][/IMG]

Its just a Record, but I like the way they ride for some reason.
shipwreck is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 11:35 AM
  #56  
Senior Member
 
Peugeotlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: York, PA
Posts: 557

Bikes: '72 Peugeot PX-10; '74 Raleigh International; '87 Specialized RockHopper; '88 Specialized StumpJumper; '02 Cannondale Scalpel

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
I guess you are right, Randy.
This'll be out in the trash if you want it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
DSCF1104.jpg (96.0 KB, 217 views)
File Type: jpg
DSCF1100.jpg (94.7 KB, 213 views)
Peugeotlover is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 11:46 AM
  #57  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 236

Bikes: 1978 Motobecane Grand Jubile | 1983 Univega Gran Turismo | 1973 Raleigh Competition

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Peugeotlover
I guess you are right, Randy.
This'll be out in the trash if you want it.
I'll be driving out to PA then. Don't toss it until I get there. I can probably find some use for it.
spock345 is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 11:48 AM
  #58  
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,229

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 174 Posts
Originally Posted by Peugeotlover
I guess you are right, Randy.
This'll be out in the trash if you want it.
God awful QC, which Raleigh most certainly suffered from in the early-mid 70s, doesn't mean that all of their bikes will be dog ****e, it just means that a disproportionate number are...and Raleigh made a lot of turds. My international was the single biggest POS I've ever seen, and something that bad should not have passed even cursory QC.

I've seen some Peugeots and Gitanes as bad as any Raleigh, but when you're bench marking against Peugeot, you're missing the point. The comments about Motobecane are very in line with my experiences btw...they were producing notably nicer bikes than many others.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 12:00 PM
  #59  
Abuse Magnet
 
arex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,888

Bikes: '91 Mtn Tek Vertical, '74 Raleigh Sports, '72 Raleigh Twenty, '84 Univega Gran Turismo, '09 Surly Karate Monkey, '92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, '86 Miyata 310, '76 Raleigh Shopper

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 172 Times in 86 Posts
The bottom bracket on my wife's '72 Raleigh Twenty has its threads tapped backwards...the adjustable cup is on the drive side, which was really messing up the crank clearance. I have it sorted out for now, but it remains to be seen what difficulties will surface down the line.
arex is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 01:39 PM
  #60  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,691

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 510 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7287 Post(s)
Liked 2,364 Times in 1,382 Posts
Workmanship was worse than most of the big brands in the 70s. But the designs were proven. My first truly nice bike was a 1975 Raleigh Gran Sport, purchased in 1976. I shouldn't have sold it. I replaced it with a 1979 PX-10, which I loved, but it's a different kind of bike. Now I'm back into the 70s Raleighs, and I have quite a few:

1962 Rudge Sports (made in Nottingham with a Rudge fork)
1971 Super Course
1971 Professional Track
1973 Twenty
1974 International

The Sports is a Sports, and you either like them or you don't.



I don't like the Twenty, and I'll eventually finish renovating and moving it on.



The Super Course was quite a surprise. It rides better than you would expect. I've taken it on spirited day rides, commuted on it, hauled with it, and toured on it. It's ugly, but it's a champ.



The International is everything I had hoped it to be and more. It's a work in progress.



The Professional Track feels very at home on the velodrome surface. I built it after using a modern Leader frame, and the Raleigh feels like the designers really knew what they were doing.



Maybe Aaron's International was a lemon. Or maybe his style and taste are different enough that it's the wrong bike for him and the right one for me. I adore mine.

Peter Weigle is a highly sought-after frame builder. Most people can't afford his frames which also have a several-year waiting period. But he also modifies old Raleigh frames, probably for a lot less than one of his from-the-ground-up frames. Why does he modify Raleighs? I can only guess it's because they're worth investing in. Maybe he fixes up the flaws or he only uses the lucky good specimens.

This is why, despite the flaws, Raleigh bikes made in Nottingham and Worksop (and the Netherlands and Canada) were some darned good bikes.

I worked in bike shops from 1978 through 1984. As a mechanic, I strongly preferred selling and assembling and repairing Japanese-made bikes for the reliability and workmanship. But I preferred to ride Raleighs and French-made bikes, because I just liked the way they rode better. It's a matter of taste to a large degree, and lots of people feel the same way.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 01:57 PM
  #61  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 597 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
I've seen some Peugeots and Gitanes as bad as any Raleigh, but when you're bench marking against Peugeot, you're missing the point. The comments about Motobecane are very in line with my experiences btw...they were producing notably nicer bikes than many others.
Yep. My late 60s PX10 had terrible QC. It had about 3 lug points you could stick a fingernail underneath. Most lugs had overhanging casting flash that had simply been painted over. The seat lug had rough chatter marks and a big burr that, again, had simply been painted over. No file had ever come within 10m of that frame for sure. While the paint hadn't been in great condition, part of the reason I repainted it was to inspect all the joints for structural integrity. As it turns out they were all fully wetted and sound, but they certainly didn't waste any time on aesthetics.

Motobecanes were always a couple steps ahead of the contemporary euro brands WRT fit and finish.

Now WRT to Raleigh, I never worked at a Raleigh shop so I have limited experience, but they weren't really out of line for the standards of the time. Of course, this is partly why the Japanese companies took over the market by the 80s.

In the 70s though, japanese bikes could be unreliable tanks. For example, a Raleigh 3 speed was far and away superior to the insanely heavy Japanese equivalents of the time, and even more superior to the Huffys and other department store junk that average people rode.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 02:10 PM
  #62  
Senior Member
 
randyjawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,672

Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma

Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1370 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,743 Times in 934 Posts
The comments about Motobecane are very in line with my experiences btw...they were producing notably nicer bikes than many others.
Now this is something I totally agree with. Motobecanes reeked of vintage appeal and they were nicely made, for the most part. That is why the lowly Motobecane Grand Jubilee proved to be a keeper, when I dramatically downsized my collection. Today, I seek a Motobecane Grand Record in my size and I am willing to pay a fair price or swap something that is more valuable, just to get a GR.

Please keep in mind that I have intentionally compared close to a hundred vintage road bicycles for ride quality, user friendliness and build workmanship. After doing this, in pretty serious depth, I stand by my criticism of the Raleigh brand.
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
randyjawa is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 02:14 PM
  #63  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 236

Bikes: 1978 Motobecane Grand Jubile | 1983 Univega Gran Turismo | 1973 Raleigh Competition

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by randyjawa
Today, I seek a Motobecane Grand Record in my size and I am willing to pay a fair price or swap something that is more valuable, just to get a GR.
I am right there with you on that. I really want a Grand Record. One popped up in the local co-op (same place I got my GJ) a while ago. Everyone stopped what they were doing at some point to admire it.
spock345 is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 02:27 PM
  #64  
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,229

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 174 Posts
I sold a GR...gorgeous bike. Very well made and nice detail.









KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 04:09 PM
  #65  
Senior Member
 
Vintage Raleigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 706

Bikes: 1974 Copper Raleigh International, 1975 Olive Green Raleigh Grand Prix, 1974 Raleigh Europa Custom

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
And the connection with Raleigh and Reynolds has to account for some credence.

531 was the tubing of choice for many racing bikes for many years.
Vintage Raleigh is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 04:19 PM
  #66  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 236

Bikes: 1978 Motobecane Grand Jubile | 1983 Univega Gran Turismo | 1973 Raleigh Competition

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Vintage Raleigh
And the connection with Raleigh and Reynolds has to account for some credence.

531 was the tubing of choice for many racing bikes for many years.
531 tubing and fancy lugs were two of the main reasons I put so much work into my competition.
spock345 is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 04:38 PM
  #67  
Senior Member
 
Vintage Raleigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 706

Bikes: 1974 Copper Raleigh International, 1975 Olive Green Raleigh Grand Prix, 1974 Raleigh Europa Custom

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
OT but what tubing did Raleigh use in it's gas pipe frames?
Vintage Raleigh is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 04:56 PM
  #68  
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by Vintage Raleigh
And the connection with Raleigh and Reynolds has to account for some credence. 531 was the tubing of choice for many racing bikes for many years.
No doubt particularly with the TI connection, the introduction of 753 and SBDU frameset production.

Oddly enough due to laws prohibiting cycling road racing the UK, where gents/ladies on their ancestral estates didn't want their rural roads cluttered w/ plebian cyclists from the cities, the domestic racing scene revolved around Time Trials of various flavors vs. continental open road racing. The machines evolved reflected the requirements of the era.

Versatile enough to fit mudguards for the British weather, able to carry a light weekend load in a seatbag for club rides, light, lively and designed to fit "sprint" wheels for TTs a great British bike was an all-rounder capable of high speeds on the less than glass smooth roads of the era from 1900-late '70's.

Sounds good? Order a custom hand built Mercian today: Quality & Heritage in your color of choice.

-Bandera
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
531_Internat'l.jpg (87.9 KB, 171 views)
File Type: jpg
carriers3.jpg (34.6 KB, 173 views)
File Type: jpg
aero-clubman-drawing.jpg (93.8 KB, 171 views)
File Type: jpg
Beryl_Burton_FG.jpg (14.1 KB, 173 views)
File Type: jpg
Audax.jpg (37.8 KB, 172 views)
Bandera is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 05:12 PM
  #69  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,717

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I was with my buddy on my Moser at a bike stop and he was on his Mercian. I guy came over and started talking to me about my bike, but when saw my buddy's Merc, I was suddenly a leper.
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 05:37 PM
  #70  
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 119 Posts
Originally Posted by bulldog1935
I was with my buddy on my Moser at a bike stop and he was on his Mercian. I guy came over and started talking to me about my bike, but when saw my buddy's Merc, I was suddenly a leper.
We special ordered and directly imported Mercian for discriminating customers for well over a decade when Paramount production was a shambles pre-Waterford, Italian racing frames of dubious quality were filling the pipeline and Carlton/Raleigh had no follow-up to the International for experienced club cyclists looking for a top quality all-rounder back when.

Fortunately nothing has changed at Mercian as far as I can tell, that's a Good Thing.

Now, back to old Raleigh bashing/worship/indifference.

-Bandera
Bandera is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 05:44 PM
  #71  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,717

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
it's still not worship - we know what they are - Giovanni Pelizzoli didn't smoke a rope and hand-make them.
But coming out of a giant Midlands mill, they're a pretty good effort, and I said before, they're here to stay.
It's an old friend, and nostalgia for everybody.

Sheldon didn't RetroRaleigh for no reason, even if he liked Varsity.

The marque will be revered forever, long after the better bikes that paid them homage are forgotten

Last edited by bulldog1935; 08-16-16 at 05:58 PM.
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 06:00 PM
  #72  
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,775

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times in 1,366 Posts
Perhaps 1970's Raleighs avoid being despised outright, by virtue of containing no Lucas Electrics
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Darth Lefty is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 06:09 PM
  #73  
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,830

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4745 Post(s)
Liked 3,861 Times in 2,510 Posts
I picked up a 1973 (guess) Raleigh Carlton Competition frame. Sweet old-school 531 ride but I never fully trusted it. (The stop for the DT shifter clamp wasn't fully brazed.) I had several other details I wanted changed also so I took it to my framebuilder asking that it be stripped, then appraised. His appraisal? Almost all the lugwork needed braze flowed in; that some were little more than tacked. "The paint was holding the bike together." There was cracking in several tubes, almost certainly due to the lack of support from the lugs. He spent 4 hours brazing the lugs for their first time.

There was one plus. No heat distortion. That 40 yo frame was spot on true.

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 06:17 PM
  #74  
On the road
 
SirMike1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 2,159

Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 369 Post(s)
Liked 824 Times in 316 Posts
Originally Posted by bassogap
I'm usually not a negative person, and I hate to rain on others' parade, but why are old Raleighs so revered?
I worked in a Raleigh store in 1974, and the quality of the bikes was abysmal! Remember, that was a dark era for England with the brown-outs and multiple strikes. Almost every Raleigh we assembled had some sort of issue. The common ones were having to shim the seat post to get it tight or having to add a spacer behind the freewheel because of frame misalignment. So today, even though I love looking at old Raleighs, my past experience with them colors my opinion of them. Has anyone else noticed many flaws with mid 70s Raleighs?
There was certainly a decline in attention to detail from the mid-1960s onward at Raleigh. My 1970s Raleighs are not quite as well-finished all around as the 1940s-50s ones I have owned. However, the '70s bikes have been very reliable and good riders. A 1974 Sports I bought for $30 second hand was my main mode of transportation in college. I still have a '78 DL-1 that is not a bad bike either. I don't fret over the edges of lugs if I like the ride.
__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
SirMike1983 is offline  
Old 08-16-16, 06:24 PM
  #75  
Senior Member
 
Vintage Raleigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 706

Bikes: 1974 Copper Raleigh International, 1975 Olive Green Raleigh Grand Prix, 1974 Raleigh Europa Custom

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
Perhaps 1970's Raleighs avoid being despised outright, by virtue of containing no Lucas Electrics
Very good!
Vintage Raleigh is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.