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Recommend a classic light touring rando style frame

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Recommend a classic light touring rando style frame

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Old 08-17-16, 02:43 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
I'm interested in a Mercian King of Mercia or Audax and others in that price range ($1000 US).
Mercian.
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Old 08-17-16, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
I ride a 55 ETT in a roadie. Do you size up for rando?
Sizing is still a personal choice, but if you mean by "rando" a bike that you can ride all day long, 2-300km at a clip, bending over in a classic, aerodynamic position may not be conductive to a healthy back. Additionally, the rando scene is really pushing towards an "all-rounder" bike (Jan Heine's declaration), which means being able to handle unpaved roads. Sitting up a bit more, handlebar and seat height difference minimal, the tendency is to ride a slightly taller frame for the longer head tube.

YMMV.
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Old 08-17-16, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
Thanks for setting me straight Sal!!




I owe you due gratis Zorro-man!! Thanks for the link!!!
Glad to share. Their web presence isn't the most impressive, but from the two Bob Jackson's I've owned, I wouldn't hesitate to give them serious consideration. Picking colors might be the toughest part of the order.

As for owing me... just post pictures of whatever you end up getting.
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Old 08-17-16, 07:59 PM
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I have this frame, which is too small or me:

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 08-17-16, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
I have this frame, which is too small or me:

[IMG][/IMG]
You selling?

Can it take full fenders? (Fender attachment bar and bolt between chainstays). Also, it looks like it can't take front racks due to the absence of eyelets forward of the dropouts.

Even if it's a no to both of these, just for curiosity's sake, what size is it and what are you asking for it?
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Old 08-17-16, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Sizing is still a personal choice, but if you mean by "rando" a bike that you can ride all day long, 2-300km at a clip, bending over in a classic, aerodynamic position may not be conductive to a healthy back. Additionally, the rando scene is really pushing towards an "all-rounder" bike (Jan Heine's declaration), which means being able to handle unpaved roads. Sitting up a bit more, handlebar and seat height difference minimal, the tendency is to ride a slightly taller frame for the longer head tube.
Yeah, for dirt road and trail riding, you definitely don't want a slammed stem. It becomes immediately obvious when trying to descend a muddy grade. You need to be able to keep your weight back to maintain control, having your bars not to far from level with the seat helps.

For me, a traditional fit of about 1.5" of standover height - a bit more in shoes - works well for all rounder. I'm well past racing now, and whereas once my bars were dropped about 3-4", now I go for about 1.5-2". You can still get aero if there's a headwind by bending your elbows, and it's more useful overall for general recreational riding. BITD a relatively larger frame was considered a more comfortable ride, and it's still true today.

It should be noted that seat to handlebar drop was different with vintage bikes. When you put the brake levers all the way forward as was typical, they are about 1.5" below the tops of the bars, not level like in modern bikes.
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Old 08-17-16, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
Can it take full fenders? (Fender attachment bar and bolt between chainstays). Also, it looks like it can't take front racks due to the absence of eyelets forward of the dropouts.
You can attach a front rack even if there's only one set of eyelets by using a standoff spacer. Rivendell sells specially made spacers for the purpose, but you can pick something up at your local hardware store (or McMaster-carr) that will work.
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Old 08-17-16, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Yeah, for dirt road and trail riding, you definitely don't want a slammed stem. It becomes immediately obvious when trying to descend a muddy grade. You need to be able to keep your weight back to maintain control, having your bars not to far from level with the seat helps.

For me, a traditional fit of about 1.5" of standover height - a bit more in shoes - works well for all rounder. I'm well past racing now, and whereas once my bars were dropped about 3-4", now I go for about 1.5-2". You can still get aero if there's a headwind by bending your elbows, and it's more useful overall for general recreational riding. BITD a relatively larger frame was considered a more comfortable ride, and it's still true today.

It should be noted that seat to handlebar drop was different with vintage bikes. When you put the brake levers all the way forward as was typical, they are about 1.5" below the tops of the bars, not level like in modern bikes.
Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
You can attach a front rack even if there's only one set of eyelets by using a standoff spacer. Rivendell sells specially made spacers for the purpose, but you can pick something up at your local hardware store (or McMaster-carr) that will work.
Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. One thing I don't want to use is a clip that uses the skewers as the attachment point.

On my roadies, I don't have much saddle-to-bar drop. Maybe 1"-1.5" on most my bikes (yea, I'm not a stickler for exact measurements on my fit. ). I figure I want at least even up for saddle and bar for a rando rig. Maybe even +1". I couldn't find the geo chart for the "off the peg" Bob Jacksons. The plus for the Mercian is that custom geo is included in their price. I'd do a 55 or 56 TT, with a 32" stand over and the tallest head tube I could get with those two measurements in mind. Of course, it goes without saying, no Pegoretti style head tube extensions!

Thanks again Sal!
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Old 08-17-16, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
You selling?

Can it take full fenders? (Fender attachment bar and bolt between chainstays). Also, it looks like it can't take front racks due to the absence of eyelets forward of the dropouts.

Even if it's a no to both of these, just for curiosity's sake, what size is it and what are you asking for it?
If you are selling, I am tempted. Though I really shouldn't be.
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Old 08-17-16, 10:25 PM
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You should really consider All City bikes in your search. My wife has an All City Macho Man. I am super impressed and envious. It is so perfect. They have various models you should check out.

Oh, they're not perfect: the top tubes are not level. But think about it.
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Old 08-17-16, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
You selling?

Can it take full fenders? (Fender attachment bar and bolt between chainstays). Also, it looks like it can't take front racks due to the absence of eyelets forward of the dropouts.

Even if it's a no to both of these, just for curiosity's sake, what size is it and what are you asking for it?
You don't need eyelets forward of dropouts for racks and fenders.

Here's @jyl 's Bianchi Specialissima



But it is a nice not having to detach the fenders if you want to put low riders on or off. Dropouts can be changed:


For the record, those MB Grand Records are pretty dang sweet.
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Old 08-18-16, 12:18 AM
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All City Space Horse
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Old 08-18-16, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
You should really consider All City bikes in your search. My wife has an All City Macho Man. I am super impressed and envious. It is so perfect. They have various models you should check out.

Oh, they're not perfect: the top tubes are not level. But think about it.
Can't get past the looks of a All City. See below.


Originally Posted by gugie View Post
You don't need eyelets forward of dropouts for racks and fenders.

Here's @jyl 's Bianchi Specialissima



But it is a nice not having to detach the fenders if you want to put low riders on or off. Dropouts can be changed:


For the record, those MB Grand Records are pretty dang sweet.
But in order to use a rear eyelet on the fork for a rack, you need mid-fork attachment points like in your example, correct? I don't see how a front rack would attach otherwise.


Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
All City Space Horse
I'm sure they're nice, but not feeling it.

Lugs.

Level top tube.

Center-pull hardware.

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Old 08-18-16, 02:07 AM
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you could find a late 70s Raleigh SuperCourse or Gran Sport
here is my 77 frame


and my 78 built up
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Old 08-18-16, 02:28 AM
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What about All City Bikes?

All-City

I am going to buy their Space Horse Frame.
It is a do everything with great geometry.
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Old 08-18-16, 05:42 AM
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1983 Trek 600 series (620, 630, 640 etc.) might meet your criteria. They have a 55mm rake and 44cm chainstays. These are sometimes called the "low trail" Treks The geomtry is very close to some 700C Randoneur bikes. I built mine up with 650 B wheels , and it is my all around bike.
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Old 08-18-16, 05:43 AM
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If this is a poll, Mercian is the only bike that fits the OPs original criteria.
The next step are $1500 customs (frame price) and it goes up from there.
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Old 08-18-16, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Besides Mercian, the obvious one is Bob Jackson. Prices are a bit less than Mercian, especially if one of their "off the peg" frames is right for you. I went for the Mercian in my quest for a light touring bike frame. FWIW they do really nice finish work.

Miyata 1000 as well as the Univega branded version the Specialissima were rare BITD and are even more scarce now. Even so, you might find one if you are patient. Trek 720 and other vintage high end touring bikes of the 70s and 80s were produced in fair numbers, so if you don't mind vintage and waiting they are out there.

Most modern non-boutique touring frames tend to be heavier than the classic touring frames of the past.
This response is actually directed at the OP, not at Salmandrine.
Mercian, Gunnar, and Bob Jackson, all Yes. Another one to consider is Boulder Bicycle, either the Randonneur which is 700c or the Allroad which is 650b. The frames are, like Gunnar, built at Waterford, so they are similarly priced. And for a little more there is the Ocean Aire Rambler.

Regarding the Brit builders, probably should check the exchange rates considering Brexit. If the dollar price of a Mercian to your spec is below that of a Boulder, you have a great opportunity.

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Old 08-18-16, 06:48 AM
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I used a miyata 1000 during my first season of randonneur riding. I didn't use a front rack with it though, the huge front bags don't appeal to me at all, I use a small one like the dill pickle handlebar bag. My 1000 also didn't have the room to run modern cantilevers so I had to live with the old-style kind that some people loathe to set up. I tried a carbon roubaix this year and like it better.

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Old 08-18-16, 07:40 AM
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Maybe you should look at Rivendell frames. I haven't heard of a single owner who regrets buying it. They're quite expensive but might be worth it for you. A met a guy who bought a used, damaged one for cheap. He had a chainstay replaced, and it's as good as ever, so the expensive repair was entirely worth it.
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Old 08-18-16, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
I ride a 55 ETT in a roadie. Do you size up for rando?



Yep, I prefer made in Italy, France, Germany, or England. But I have to admit the VO Pass Hunter has everything I want in the frame, and it would be $300 cheaper than the Bob Jackson World Tour, which is probably my leader at this point. But the VO PH is out of stock in my size, and the BJ WT would be in the color that I want at $887 (£682) delivered.


This question is for all of you- between the British brands, which one tugs at your heart? Since I'm still just paring the list, and these three are in my field of view, between the Bob Jackson, the Mercian, and the Holdsworth, which brand speaks to you the most? I think I like the Mercian the most, but the price of a BJ WT and the Holdsworth are about half that of the comparable Mercian.

Thanks again!
Unless it's a top line outfit, I'd rather have Taiwan/Japan.

Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Maybe you should look at Rivendell frames. I haven't heard of a single owner who regrets buying it. They're quite expensive but might be worth it for you. A met a guy who bought a used, damaged one for cheap. He had a chainstay replaced, and it's as good as ever, so the expensive repair was entirely worth it.
THIS

Also, give Simon @ Hanford cycles a buzz (firth and Wilson transport)...he's pretty reasonable, and his work is fantastic. In addition to Mercian, you'd also be surprised at how affordable a hetchins is.

Of course there are thousands of bikes from a variety of countries on the used market that fit.
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Old 08-18-16, 07:59 AM
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Why don't you want a frame made in Asia? Some of the world's best lugged frames are made in Japan by Toei. They are,if anything, more "French" than bikes from France (excepting Singer or Berthoud). The SOMA San Marcos is a lugged frame made in Taiwan, and from what I hear is a very nice bike . It might be something like the bike you're looking for, but they might be all sold out.
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Old 08-18-16, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ride-Fly View Post
But in order to use a rear eyelet on the fork for a rack, you need mid-fork attachment points like in your example, correct? I don't see how a front rack would attach otherwise.

Lugs.

Level top tube.

Center-pull hardware.
Yes, a low rider attachment at the mid-fork is required. If you're set on center pulls with brazed on bosses (a great way to go, IMO), and a front handlebar rack, I don't know of a production frame made like that. Your best bet is to find a frame and modify it. Forks can be reraked if you want the handlebar bag/load up front/low trail experience. This can all be done well within your budget.
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Old 08-18-16, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Unless it's a top line outfit, I'd rather have Taiwan/Japan.



THIS

Also, give Simon @ Hanford cycles a buzz (firth and Wilson transport)...he's pretty reasonable, and his work is fantastic. In addition to Mercian, you'd also be surprised at how affordable a hetchins is.

Of course there are thousands of bikes from a variety of countries on the used market that fit.
Are Hetchins still made by Bob Jackson? I know they were made in the same shop several years ago.
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Old 08-18-16, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
Are Hetchins still made by Bob Jackson? I know they were made in the same shop several years ago.
I don't think so...I think that was in the early-mid 80s? I think there may even be some beef between Hetchins and Jackson...but I might just be spreading rumor here. I don't remember the name of the guy who is building them now, or was when I spoke with them back in around 2009.
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