consensus on sunXCD?
 

Building up my centurion semi-pro and have been browsing... saw the sunxcd derailleur set in a local shop and thought: hmmm.. get the matching hubs and that might be a real slick way to go.

anyone hung these on an old frame?

good stuff - if you don't need the longer cage, Microshift R10 is the same RD with a medium cage
'92 CX frame, but would go fine with any classic touring bike.
I'm pushing 10,000 mi on this and really like both the RD and thumbies
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../aP5100017.jpg

As [MENTION=442798]bulldog1935[/MENTION] mentions, it appears to be the same derailleur as the Microshift R10, but with a bit nicer finish, but it also costs twice as much. I have one on my bike and it performs well enough, though I can't quite get it to shift just as smooth and fast up and down the rear cluster (could be a derailleur hanger issue?), quarter turn either way and it either upshifts perfect or downshifts perfect but not both, using Dura Ace 10-speed bar end shifters the cables that came with the shifters, and Shimano SIS housing.

My friend who sells the derailleur says that it possibly has nicer bushings to justify the price difference, but when I tried to contact Microshift and SunXCD directly neither company has answered my question, so I'm going to assume it's essentially the same product at a much higher price.

I'm running 12-29t rear, 42/25T crank with CX70 FD, and this drivetrain is great.

Got a chance to work with the new crank and hubs, great looking parts, the hubs are fabulous, you can get them.in either Shimano or Campagnolo



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...psr1bxqcyb.jpg



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...psnlqa6qvb.jpg




http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...psnqkvoht6.jpg



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...pskyp9mjhi.jpg

If only that pulley cage was polished smoother and didn't have a connection between the pulley wheels on the front side.

i admit, its the hubs that really drew me. i could take or leave the rear derailleur but if it works well...

Sitting in boxes, waiting for my new frame , I have Sun XCD:

FD, RD, rear hub and cranks (with TA rings).

I can't speak to performance yet, but it looks good.

SunXCD has only been available for a few months I think, and not many folks are going to have much experience with it. It certainly looks great. Where did you even find the 3 arm chainring type? UK vendor? The cranks don't come in 175 or I probably would have got a set.

The other competing retro group is the Gran Compe ENE, which is pretty nice too. Both groups use microshift sourced derailleurs.

FWIW the Microshift Centos is a notch up from the R10, and has a little fancier jockey cage. It appears to be pretty much the same derailleur as the SunXCD. It only comes in a short cage AFAIK, so if you want the GT version, got to pony up for Sun XCD. Also I think the silver model has just been superseded by an ugly new white painted version, but the R10 is pretty close and still silver.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-a...d=w648-h864-no

I have the same XCD crank arms on my cyclotouriste triple, replacing a cracked TA left arm I had purchased on ebay with unknown history. Though they maintain a low-Q on the chainline, The XCD arms are slightly flared for modern chainstays, and I find the footprint a lot more comfortable than the narrow TA.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...aaP4020003.jpg

+1 on the disconnected front side. One of my favorite things about Suntour derailleurs.

I bought my crank arms over 3 years ago, but it was buying from a Japanese shop using a broker. Merry Sales (Soma) was importing them even then.
2 years ago bought the Microshift R10 from Universal Cycles, and even then Merry was the only source for the XCD RD (outside Japan).
The 3-bolt cloverleaf chainrings are new: SunXCD Clover Leaf Style Chain rings for 50.4mm BCD cranks - Stronglig ? Velo Duo Cycles
though 3 years ago, the Japanese shop where I bought my XCD crank arms offered a 3-bolt spider.

Doesnt seem to be a consensus.

I looked at the Sun rear derailleur for a new build, but passed because of the cost. I just couldnt justify such a high cost when there are really great functioning components available for 1/4 the cost. It would have gone on a modern steel frame for gravel riding, so while its very nice looking, vanity was not a benefit.
$135 for a rear derailleur in this instance for me is...excessive.


I also looked at getting the Microshift derailleurs, but they were universally unavailable. The 2 I considered were unavailable online and unavailable at bike shops(thru QBP). The only place I could get the derailleurs was on Amazon or Ebay, and I would have needed to buy the derailleur and shifter group. Even then it was the short cage and I didnt want that.
Microshift RD R51M is a medium cage for 2 front rings. Silver body and black arm. can handle up to 34t cassette.
Microshift RD R47 is a long cage for 3 front rings. All silver. Can handle up to 28t cassette.


The SunXCD is sort of an odd duck. Its marketed as being great for touring(so then also great for commuting, gravel, dirt road, etc) with the ability to handle a 34t cog. But it only has a 39t capacity while being a long cage.
So if you get an 11-34 cassette, you only have 16t difference to play with up front. Maybe a 46-38-30 triple crank?...not exactly great. Of you could use an 11-28 cassette with a 48-38-26 triple crank, but again that doesnt really do what one would hope to do with a long cage derailleur that can handle a 34t cog.
All for $135.

Paying a huge premium and being limited by the gearing? Not for me.

The whole XCD lineup is very nice looking, and priced accordingly. I just dont get off on how a hub looks as long as its not some crazy design. Shimano hubs have a traditional shape and 105 hubs cost 3-4x less than the SunXCD hubs.

It's for those that still foster a grudge against Shimano for knocking out SunTour. Nice bits, though.

I still like Shimano FD better than Suntour, and vise-versa on RD.
Suntour under-priced themselves out of the market. The French first offered Suntour on near-top-line touring bikes in 1971-2, and you couldn't sell a bike without Suntour by the end of the 70s. If they had taken advantage of their superior patented design (which Everyone copied after the patent expired), priced and marketed themselves for the prestige instead of the frugal, they would have survived the 80s.

Amazon claims to have them, but they may or may not. I ordered a Centos from them last year. It took two weeks + and IIRC was drop/packet shipped from Taiwan. I tried recently to buy another set, but they sent me some cheap stamped steel derailleurs instead. I took a refund rather than a return, thinking they might not have them in real life anyway. The R10 may be easier to come by. Some online shops have them.

Maybe SunXCD has some sort of exclusivity deal? No one sells the Gran Compe ENE derailleurs either, which are a rebranded Arsis.

I do notice that the SunXCD derailleurs have some small aesthetic differences. The outer plate has a different shape. The jockey cage is different and custom. There are other subtle things here and there that seem to be unique to the SunXCD. Overall the industrial design is IMO more tastefully done than the MS versions. Whether or not that is worth the upcharge is going to depend on the buyer.

That was part of it for sure, but not all of it. They did have the Superbe line which was as expensive as anything. Much of their decline was IMO because their early click-shifting wasn't that great compared to Shimano's. Once the Suntour patent expired, Shimano was able to combine their latest SIS/positron with the superior slant parallelogram, and it was game over. Also, by the mid 80s frankly the new bike market was like 80% mountain bikes, and Shimano had better marketing, a clearer less confusing product line, and more exciting looking products.

OK, thanks. And thanks for that link to the clover leaf chainrings. I guess I just didn't notice SOMA/Merry had SunXCD.

I suspect it's closer to having any deal than being exclusive. For Grand Compe and Sun XCD, someone has to decide to buy them in Japan and bring them here. Both have home markets, so the trick is hunt them down in Japan or find an exporter.
People like Soma, VO, Compass don't carry the whole line - they go shopping in Japan and bring home what they believe they can sell.

I think the success Grand Bois and Alex Cycles has selling across the big pond, as long as the JY doesn't get too strong, we will see an improving mail-order market for Grand Bois and Sun XCD. Without the internet, the only source for any of it would be the Merry Sales paper catalog.

here, Universal Cycles imports a bit as well, also
https://www.universalcycles.com/search.php?q=dia+compe


And yes, SunTour indexing was a big fail, but it also took Shimano and Campy awhile to work out their bugs, too.

SunTour did survive the 80s.
Not being old enough to have experienced this firsthand, I rely on historical accounts of the industry back then, but from what I have read- SunTour failed for more reasons that just not charging enough money for their products.
- In addition to pricing themselves as a great value and not profiting from a higher margin, they had an incredibly small R&D team compared to Shimano. Something like 10-1.
- Also, at one of the bike shows many large retail shop owners were in a focus group and asked about Shimano's indexing. Almost all said it was a gimmick/wasnt necessary/wouldnt succeed. SIS was a massive success and SunTour was left playing catch up with that small R&D team which allowed Shimano to take significant shares of the market thru the last half of the 80s.
- Shimano's ability to create a groupset was more appealing compared to SunTour's use of its partner comonent companies like Sanshin and DiaCompe to create a group.

It seems those 3 issues contributed significantly to SunTour's decline thru the 80s and eventual sale in the 90s. Charging more for some derailleurs in '82 wouldnt have stopped any of the 3 issues mentioned.
Again, this is thru what I have learned from reading and talking with people from that period and wasnt experienced 1st hand by me, so any or all of those 3 issues could be inaccurate, but I dont think so.

groupset, yes the appeal to bike rags

And that makes sense it left Suntour out of the following bike industry production model.

I was interested in the 120 free hub but it didn't seem like it was stocked anywhere. Last I looked there was one remaining source, in the U.K. There aren't many high flange freehubs in the world, or QR fronts for that matter. The 130 is still available.

the appeal of the derailleurs seemed only to be they were silver and STI-compatible. Their price is high.

Compass stocks it, along with the cassettes - https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/co...-cassette-hub/

Same concept but the Sun XCD version had the (more attractive to me) oval windows and less-bulgy shape at the bearings.
Hubs ? SunXCD - Bicycle Components
The VO Grand Cru version has a sort of trumpet shape shell which I also like but it's only in modern sizes.

For those interested, Norther Cycles stocks quite a bit of their stuff.

I'm sure the hubs Compass sells are Dia-Compe Ene

found them - Sun XCD 120mm cassette hub at Grand Bois

To shop there, go through the cart/purchase and they will e-mail you a paypal invoice. You can still cancel your order if you don't want to pay the paypal invoice.

Great tires, too.
Binda toe straps...