How much importance should I place on OS tubing and lowrider points
10-04-16, 04:06 PM
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How much importance should I place on OS tubing and lowrider points
As some of you know, I started a thread about helping me choose a rando/audax frame about a month and a half ago. Well, I've decided to go with the Bob Jackson Audax frame over the other two, but still clearing out final details of the frameset. Rather than stick this post into the old thread, I thought I would start a fresh one, just because I have different issues and decisions I need to make. Besides, I don't want to have others read through the threads (or not as happened recently, and receive recommendations of other frames to consider 
).
So the decisions I've resolved: 1) going with a threaded fork and headset; 2) paint of red main tubes and gold head tube with gold barber stripes.
Issues I thought I had decided upon, but now reconsidering:
1) 631 oversize tubing- I'm 5'10" and 180lbs. Do I need it? Is it worth the extra £50???
2) lowrider points- I will likely never use lowrider racks, but I wanted to be able to run a midpoint front rack like a Nitto or VO. After looking at the Nitto and VO racks in person today, I doubt they would fit on the given fork midpoint rack hole without slanting down quite a bit. Should I just use a p-clip and forgo the extra £30?
3) braze on posts for Paul Racers- the final quote turned out to be a bit more than what I was initially quoted (£120 vs £70) so I'm thinking I can run Mafacs with the standard center hole. Is it worth the total jump in price ($350) when considering the upgrade cost and the cost of new Pauls?? Well, on this point, I am pretty sure I am going to cancel this upgrade and go with standard center hole and Mafacs which can be had for $20 at a LBS.
So, that's it! Oversize or standard 631? Lowrider points or no?
Thanks bubbas!!!
). So the decisions I've resolved: 1) going with a threaded fork and headset; 2) paint of red main tubes and gold head tube with gold barber stripes.
Issues I thought I had decided upon, but now reconsidering:
1) 631 oversize tubing- I'm 5'10" and 180lbs. Do I need it? Is it worth the extra £50???
2) lowrider points- I will likely never use lowrider racks, but I wanted to be able to run a midpoint front rack like a Nitto or VO. After looking at the Nitto and VO racks in person today, I doubt they would fit on the given fork midpoint rack hole without slanting down quite a bit. Should I just use a p-clip and forgo the extra £30?
3) braze on posts for Paul Racers- the final quote turned out to be a bit more than what I was initially quoted (£120 vs £70) so I'm thinking I can run Mafacs with the standard center hole. Is it worth the total jump in price ($350) when considering the upgrade cost and the cost of new Pauls?? Well, on this point, I am pretty sure I am going to cancel this upgrade and go with standard center hole and Mafacs which can be had for $20 at a LBS.
So, that's it! Oversize or standard 631? Lowrider points or no?
Thanks bubbas!!!
Last edited by Ride-Fly; 10-04-16 at 04:10 PM.
10-04-16, 04:18 PM
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My opinions:
OS - tubing. It will be either stiffer or lighter or some mix of those than non-OS, depending on whether they keep the gauge the same or not. I would clarify with BJ what the exact difference is in the tubesets they use, but I would guess it's some mix of lighter + stiffer. For an audax bike, I personally wouldn't mind traditional diameter tubing for a bit more flex (which is more comfortable than stiffer tubing). But I am a light person (130lb) so if I was heavier I might opt for the stiffer OS tubing.
Fork braze-ons - the mid-mount racks should be relatively adjustable with regard to the attachment to the top of the fork, either through a daruma or tang of some sort, or to the brake mount. If your mid-fork brazeons are in a relatively normal position you should be able to run most racks. I personally would not use a p-clamp even though they would be functional enough. There are also racks that have arms that go down to the dropout and/or eyelets at the bottom of the fork so you wouldn't have to worry about a mid-fork braze-on. Less options for this, though. And there are many racks that attach at the cantilever bosses if you are getting these. Just be aware that with this option, if you get the Paul Cantis, you will need to pay extra for a special adapter from them to attach a rack on the bosses.
OS - tubing. It will be either stiffer or lighter or some mix of those than non-OS, depending on whether they keep the gauge the same or not. I would clarify with BJ what the exact difference is in the tubesets they use, but I would guess it's some mix of lighter + stiffer. For an audax bike, I personally wouldn't mind traditional diameter tubing for a bit more flex (which is more comfortable than stiffer tubing). But I am a light person (130lb) so if I was heavier I might opt for the stiffer OS tubing.
Fork braze-ons - the mid-mount racks should be relatively adjustable with regard to the attachment to the top of the fork, either through a daruma or tang of some sort, or to the brake mount. If your mid-fork brazeons are in a relatively normal position you should be able to run most racks. I personally would not use a p-clamp even though they would be functional enough. There are also racks that have arms that go down to the dropout and/or eyelets at the bottom of the fork so you wouldn't have to worry about a mid-fork braze-on. Less options for this, though. And there are many racks that attach at the cantilever bosses if you are getting these. Just be aware that with this option, if you get the Paul Cantis, you will need to pay extra for a special adapter from them to attach a rack on the bosses.
Last edited by TenGrainBread; 10-04-16 at 04:24 PM.
10-04-16, 04:23 PM
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This type of bike is not really my forte' to be honest , --- but I will shoot you an opinion from an outsider's perspective looking in
1) -- YOU don't need OS tubing at 180 lbs, --- buuut -- what is the maximum load you may be carrying? I'm a Clycesdale class cyclist myself and am carrying more than 250 #'s and have had no problems with standard tubing over the years, -- but then again loads on racks and things like that may be different than rider weight as far as distribution and stress
2) Can you tell the guys' what rack you want to use and have them position the braze on for you where you would need it? If building up a custom, I would want it to be as sleek as possible without the need for accessory clips and adapters and other doo-dads (that is, if the Bob Jackson guys would work with you -- you might have to send them the rack for them to position it properly though )
3) I thought those PAul's brakes had a non post mount option ---- if you had to do braze ons anyway, (if it were my bike) - i'd just have 'em mounted low enough to use canti's
Again - just my opinion -- and that's coming from a guy who admittedly doesn't have a lot of experience with anything outside of a racer or club racer type bike
1) -- YOU don't need OS tubing at 180 lbs, --- buuut -- what is the maximum load you may be carrying? I'm a Clycesdale class cyclist myself and am carrying more than 250 #'s and have had no problems with standard tubing over the years, -- but then again loads on racks and things like that may be different than rider weight as far as distribution and stress
2) Can you tell the guys' what rack you want to use and have them position the braze on for you where you would need it? If building up a custom, I would want it to be as sleek as possible without the need for accessory clips and adapters and other doo-dads (that is, if the Bob Jackson guys would work with you -- you might have to send them the rack for them to position it properly though )
3) I thought those PAul's brakes had a non post mount option ---- if you had to do braze ons anyway, (if it were my bike) - i'd just have 'em mounted low enough to use canti's
Again - just my opinion -- and that's coming from a guy who admittedly doesn't have a lot of experience with anything outside of a racer or club racer type bike
10-04-16, 05:00 PM
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Is the choice OS 631 tubing versus non-OS 531 tubing? I can't speak to OS 631, but I'd be tempted to go for 853 tubing. My Lemond is 853, and it's just the right ratio of stiffness to flex for me (at 165 lbs).
10-04-16, 06:48 PM
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To TenGB and DMC707, appreciate your thoughts on the topic. Btw DMC..."707"??? Did you fly it? The 707 is a great iconic plane.
10-04-16, 06:52 PM
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RE OS - I think you can go either way on the tubing. With 631 I can think of good arguments for standard and OS. It depends what you like. The 631 OS will be stiffer, so the bike will have more get up and go, but probably not as cushy of a ride. If you did want to upgrade to 853 (etc) going with OS will put some stiffness back that was lost by going to a thinner lighter gauge. I went with 725OS on my new frame both because I ride a biggish size, and my preference is for stiffer frames. (I'm ~6'2" and 185ish)
EDIT: if you have a few OS frames already, perhaps go std gauge for max long distance comfort.
RE lowriders - I would get the braze ons if you plan on using one of those rando racks. They are not really lowriders though, so don't ask for lowrider braze ons. Send them a picture of the rack you want to use. Many of those front racks are pretty adjustable, and as long as the eyelets are in about the right place, it will be fine. They are usually like 3 inches are something below where canti bosses would be, IIRC.
EDIT: if you have a few OS frames already, perhaps go std gauge for max long distance comfort.
RE lowriders - I would get the braze ons if you plan on using one of those rando racks. They are not really lowriders though, so don't ask for lowrider braze ons. Send them a picture of the rack you want to use. Many of those front racks are pretty adjustable, and as long as the eyelets are in about the right place, it will be fine. They are usually like 3 inches are something below where canti bosses would be, IIRC.
Last edited by Salamandrine; 10-04-16 at 10:08 PM.
10-04-16, 07:53 PM
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@Ride-Fly , regarding my DMC707 moniker, -- my name is Doug McBride ---- although I had a career in aviation(I worked as an A&P in Cessna's experimental dept. on the Citation X ) , the origin of my favorite number goes back to my dad --- he was a horseman --- his flagship horse (and also the most gentle for a green child to ride) was a huge Appaloosa/thoroughbred named Mr. 707
I did not stick with rodeo pursuits but instead chose to race motocross from pre-teen days up to national level events in my 20's -- I always used 707 as my number, and even lobbied the AMA to allow me to run it in pro events until my license had lapsed
It has stuck with me to this day ---- and thanks for giving me the opening I needed to re-cant that tale as the memory of the majestic Mr 707 really made me smile
I did not stick with rodeo pursuits but instead chose to race motocross from pre-teen days up to national level events in my 20's -- I always used 707 as my number, and even lobbied the AMA to allow me to run it in pro events until my license had lapsed
It has stuck with me to this day ---- and thanks for giving me the opening I needed to re-cant that tale as the memory of the majestic Mr 707 really made me smile
10-04-16, 08:29 PM
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Mafacs work very well. I use a pair as fronts on two bikes. (I took a pair of Weinmanns or DiaComps, split them up and use them as rears. I like the less powerful, stiffer caliper as a rear. Front and rear feel is near identical.)
I'd have LowRider mounts put in standard locations so down the road, your options are open.
Standard 531 works just fine for very long rides. (I did 175 miles twice and 160 a bunch of times one summer on my Fuji Pro with tubing probably very close to 531. My Mooney (531) has done many long and some epic rides though I have not seen the form I had riding the Fuji. If 631 is in the ballpark of standard 531 for wall thickness, it ought to suit you just fine. (The 853 IS tempting.)
I like your approach! I had a ti bike built for me a few years ago. Had the builder place the rear caliper in front of the seatstay simply because I think bikes look cleaner that way. (I'd been doing that a few years on my sidepull bikes, pre-recessed brakes.) He also welded in a boss for the SunTour top mounted DT shifters. I went Shimano dual pivots on the brakes because that is what a modern bike is supposed to have (pre disc, 2006). Never liked the very powerful braking, the frequent skidding the rear tire. Last year I took the Tektro levers off and put on Tektro V-brake levers. Problem solved! By-product - much more comfortable levers to climb on.
Ben
I'd have LowRider mounts put in standard locations so down the road, your options are open.
Standard 531 works just fine for very long rides. (I did 175 miles twice and 160 a bunch of times one summer on my Fuji Pro with tubing probably very close to 531. My Mooney (531) has done many long and some epic rides though I have not seen the form I had riding the Fuji. If 631 is in the ballpark of standard 531 for wall thickness, it ought to suit you just fine. (The 853 IS tempting.)
I like your approach! I had a ti bike built for me a few years ago. Had the builder place the rear caliper in front of the seatstay simply because I think bikes look cleaner that way. (I'd been doing that a few years on my sidepull bikes, pre-recessed brakes.) He also welded in a boss for the SunTour top mounted DT shifters. I went Shimano dual pivots on the brakes because that is what a modern bike is supposed to have (pre disc, 2006). Never liked the very powerful braking, the frequent skidding the rear tire. Last year I took the Tektro levers off and put on Tektro V-brake levers. Problem solved! By-product - much more comfortable levers to climb on.
Ben
10-04-16, 10:14 PM
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According to Reynolds, 631 is the new slightly warmed over 531 (I paraphrase, obviously). Same basic metallurgy, 10% stronger. Nothing at all wrong with a standard 531 bike, so 10% better is awesome plus 10%.
10-04-16, 10:57 PM
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In answer to your questions:
-USC colors? Fight on, dude, fight on.
-threaded fork and headset, properly adjusted, need no "improvement"
-OS tubing? I know guys bigger than you riding standard size tubing. You need beefed up tubing if you load the bike in the rear to counteract the "tail wagging the dog". Load the bike up front, forget about the OS tubing and save your money.
-Off the shelf front racks rarely fit properly. A custom one can be had for not much more money. Or, get the off the shelf rack and have your builder make it fit properly.
-brazed on posts for centerpulls (doesn't matter what brand) give you better braking performance. Do you need it? That's a value proposition, can't answer that for you. Why MAFAC's? If you're going wide with fenders, RAID's or Paul's are the answer. Something like "mid-fat", 30ish, you can go with longer reach double pivots and still have room for fenders. So, "it depends". Lots of good brakes to choose from.
-get the lowrider mounts for £30. You'll find a use for them sometime. 8/10 Un-meeting riders can't all be wrong...
-USC colors? Fight on, dude, fight on.
-threaded fork and headset, properly adjusted, need no "improvement"
-OS tubing? I know guys bigger than you riding standard size tubing. You need beefed up tubing if you load the bike in the rear to counteract the "tail wagging the dog". Load the bike up front, forget about the OS tubing and save your money.
-Off the shelf front racks rarely fit properly. A custom one can be had for not much more money. Or, get the off the shelf rack and have your builder make it fit properly.
-brazed on posts for centerpulls (doesn't matter what brand) give you better braking performance. Do you need it? That's a value proposition, can't answer that for you. Why MAFAC's? If you're going wide with fenders, RAID's or Paul's are the answer. Something like "mid-fat", 30ish, you can go with longer reach double pivots and still have room for fenders. So, "it depends". Lots of good brakes to choose from.
-get the lowrider mounts for £30. You'll find a use for them sometime. 8/10 Un-meeting riders can't all be wrong...
As some of you know, I started a thread about helping me choose a rando/audax frame about a month and a half ago. Well, I've decided to go with the Bob Jackson Audax frame over the other two, but still clearing out final details of the frameset. Rather than stick this post into the old thread, I thought I would start a fresh one, just because I have different issues and decisions I need to make. Besides, I don't want to have others read through the threads (or not as happened recently, and receive recommendations of other frames to consider ).
So the decisions I've resolved: 1) going with a threaded fork and headset; 2) paint of red main tubes and gold head tube with gold barber stripes.
Issues I thought I had decided upon, but now reconsidering:
1) 631 oversize tubing- I'm 5'10" and 180lbs. Do I need it? Is it worth the extra £50???
2) lowrider points- I will likely never use lowrider racks, but I wanted to be able to run a midpoint front rack like a Nitto or VO. After looking at the Nitto and VO racks in person today, I doubt they would fit on the given fork midpoint rack hole without slanting down quite a bit. Should I just use a p-clip and forgo the extra £30?
3) braze on posts for Paul Racers- the final quote turned out to be a bit more than what I was initially quoted (£120 vs £70) so I'm thinking I can run Mafacs with the standard center hole. Is it worth the total jump in price ($350) when considering the upgrade cost and the cost of new Pauls?? Well, on this point, I am pretty sure I am going to cancel this upgrade and go with standard center hole and Mafacs which can be had for $20 at a LBS.
So, that's it! Oversize or standard 631? Lowrider points or no?
Thanks bubbas!!!
). So the decisions I've resolved: 1) going with a threaded fork and headset; 2) paint of red main tubes and gold head tube with gold barber stripes.
Issues I thought I had decided upon, but now reconsidering:
1) 631 oversize tubing- I'm 5'10" and 180lbs. Do I need it? Is it worth the extra £50???
2) lowrider points- I will likely never use lowrider racks, but I wanted to be able to run a midpoint front rack like a Nitto or VO. After looking at the Nitto and VO racks in person today, I doubt they would fit on the given fork midpoint rack hole without slanting down quite a bit. Should I just use a p-clip and forgo the extra £30?
3) braze on posts for Paul Racers- the final quote turned out to be a bit more than what I was initially quoted (£120 vs £70) so I'm thinking I can run Mafacs with the standard center hole. Is it worth the total jump in price ($350) when considering the upgrade cost and the cost of new Pauls?? Well, on this point, I am pretty sure I am going to cancel this upgrade and go with standard center hole and Mafacs which can be had for $20 at a LBS.
So, that's it! Oversize or standard 631? Lowrider points or no?
Thanks bubbas!!!
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10-04-16, 11:07 PM
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I prefer the braking improvement of brazed on centerpull posts - they're significantly stiffer. A bolt on brake, well adjusted will work just fine.
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10-05-16, 03:57 AM
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Hi. Here's my 0.02$ on the tubing matter. I do tour on a non-OS steel tubed bike. When fully loaded (including front panniers) I can definitely feel a lot of flex. I'm pretty sure I'll look for OS tubes on my next touring frame for the extra stiffness.
Regarding low rider mounts - even tho you might never use it paying extra for it might be worth it. It's the value added you will probably get back when you try to sell it. Also you might get wider interest in it only because they are there.
Regarding low rider mounts - even tho you might never use it paying extra for it might be worth it. It's the value added you will probably get back when you try to sell it. Also you might get wider interest in it only because they are there.
10-05-16, 04:51 AM
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Hi. Here's my 0.02$ on the tubing matter. I do tour on a non-OS steel tubed bike. When fully loaded (including front panniers) I can definitely feel a lot of flex. I'm pretty sure I'll look for OS tubes on my next touring frame for the extra stiffness.
Regarding low rider mounts - even tho you might never use it paying extra for it might be worth it. It's the value added you will probably get back when you try to sell it. Also you might get wider interest in it only because they are there.
Regarding low rider mounts - even tho you might never use it paying extra for it might be worth it. It's the value added you will probably get back when you try to sell it. Also you might get wider interest in it only because they are there.
I'd go for OS and I would definitely consider nlerner's suggestion on 853.
I weigh a bit (lots
) more than him, but that tubing is exceptional.I have low rider mounts on my Hollands, Salsa and my Bilenky. I don't use the low rider panniers all the time, but it was nice to have them on our Lake Superior journey a few years ago. I added my Madden panniers and I was amazed at how much stuff I could put in them. Didn't wreck the handling on the bike either.
I rarely carry that much nowadays though. I just used my Wald basket on my Bilenky this summer. When I needed a little more carrying capacity I added my combos of PR, Swift or Revelate bags. This worked well on a 256 mile trip from Ely to St. Paul. It was a 90% gravel trip and we stayed at inexpensive hotels along the route and it was sweet sleeping in a nice bed.
So, yes, pay the extra to have the low rider mounts added. You'll likely kick yourself if you don't.
10-05-16, 05:23 AM
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I'm not head-over-heels about OS, but I am about very thinwall OS. The best-riding bike I have is a 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggero in Columbus ELOS tubing. Here the ELOS (extra light oversize) TT and DT are 28 mm and 31 mm outer diameter, but the wall thickness of both is 0.4 mm. This would make for an easily dented frame in 531, but Columbus used its modern Nivex steel which is a lot stronger than 531. It is light, springy, responsive and smooth-riding, even though it is a tight, quick, racing design, even with narrow 21 mm clinchers!
At the same time, we have a Terry bike built with Columbus Brain, which has the same Nivex steel, same outer diameters, but the wall thicknesses are 0.6 mm same as venerable and excellent Columbus SL and Reynolds 501. The thicker tubing walls make the Brain a lot stiffer than the ELOS, even though the steel and the outer diameters are the same. And the 0.6 mm Brain in oversize is a lot stiffer than the 0.6 mm SL in standard diameters.
So in oversize, thinwall tubing will be a lot better riding, but the steel has to be of a higher strength, maybe 60% stronger. In Columbus this favors Nivex (ELOS) versus Cyclex (old SL), and in Reynolds this favors 853 versus 531. This is why nlerner suggested you spring for the 853 over the 631 (853 is FAR stronger than 531, where 631 is only 10% stronger than 531, and it is why Columbus and Reynolds don't provide premium oversize tubesets in their classic SL and 531 alloys.
Get the oversize, get the 853, and enjoy the better ride and responsiveness!
Also, send your rack to Bob Jackson's so they can fit it properly, with the mounting points in the right place.
At the same time, we have a Terry bike built with Columbus Brain, which has the same Nivex steel, same outer diameters, but the wall thicknesses are 0.6 mm same as venerable and excellent Columbus SL and Reynolds 501. The thicker tubing walls make the Brain a lot stiffer than the ELOS, even though the steel and the outer diameters are the same. And the 0.6 mm Brain in oversize is a lot stiffer than the 0.6 mm SL in standard diameters.
So in oversize, thinwall tubing will be a lot better riding, but the steel has to be of a higher strength, maybe 60% stronger. In Columbus this favors Nivex (ELOS) versus Cyclex (old SL), and in Reynolds this favors 853 versus 531. This is why nlerner suggested you spring for the 853 over the 631 (853 is FAR stronger than 531, where 631 is only 10% stronger than 531, and it is why Columbus and Reynolds don't provide premium oversize tubesets in their classic SL and 531 alloys.
Get the oversize, get the 853, and enjoy the better ride and responsiveness!
Also, send your rack to Bob Jackson's so they can fit it properly, with the mounting points in the right place.
10-05-16, 05:31 AM
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Or, stay with the standard diameters but get the 631 versus 531. Take advantage of the increased strength (10% is not to be ignored!), and both of these will have a similarly lively and smooth ride to my Mondonico Futura Leggero, but they will be heavier by less than a pound.
So best performance will be with 853, but most cost effective will be standard-diameter 631. Modern-good versus vintage-good.
So best performance will be with 853, but most cost effective will be standard-diameter 631. Modern-good versus vintage-good.
10-05-16, 09:09 AM
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Bikes: Colnago Mix, Dean El Diente Ti S&S, Lynskey Cooper CX Disc Ti S&S, Mondonico Futura Legerro, DeRosa Primato, Tommaisini Tecno, Ciöcc Mokva80, Colnago Classic, Brompton M6L, Bob Jackson Audax End-E
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@Ride-Fly , regarding my DMC707 moniker, -- my name is Doug McBride ---- although I had a career in aviation(I worked as an A&P in Cessna's experimental dept. on the Citation X ) , the origin of my favorite number goes back to my dad --- he was a horseman --- his flagship horse (and also the most gentle for a green child to ride) was a huge Appaloosa/thoroughbred named Mr. 707
I did not stick with rodeo pursuits but instead chose to race motocross from pre-teen days up to national level events in my 20's -- I always used 707 as my number, and even lobbied the AMA to allow me to run it in pro events until my license had lapsed
It has stuck with me to this day ---- and thanks for giving me the opening I needed to re-cant that tale as the memory of the majestic Mr 707 really made me smile
I did not stick with rodeo pursuits but instead chose to race motocross from pre-teen days up to national level events in my 20's -- I always used 707 as my number, and even lobbied the AMA to allow me to run it in pro events until my license had lapsed
It has stuck with me to this day ---- and thanks for giving me the opening I needed to re-cant that tale as the memory of the majestic Mr 707 really made me smile
In answer to your questions:
-USC colors? Fight on, dude, fight on.
-threaded fork and headset, properly adjusted, need no "improvement"
-OS tubing? I know guys bigger than you riding standard size tubing. You need beefed up tubing if you load the bike in the rear to counteract the "tail wagging the dog". Load the bike up front, forget about the OS tubing and save your money.
-Off the shelf front racks rarely fit properly. A custom one can be had for not much more money. Or, get the off the shelf rack and have your builder make it fit properly.
-brazed on posts for centerpulls (doesn't matter what brand) give you better braking performance. Do you need it? That's a value proposition, can't answer that for you. Why MAFAC's? If you're going wide with fenders, RAID's or Paul's are the answer. Something like "mid-fat", 30ish, you can go with longer reach double pivots and still have room for fenders. So, "it depends". Lots of good brakes to choose from.
-get the lowrider mounts for £30. You'll find a use for them sometime. 8/10 Un-meeting riders can't all be wrong...
-USC colors? Fight on, dude, fight on.
-threaded fork and headset, properly adjusted, need no "improvement"
-OS tubing? I know guys bigger than you riding standard size tubing. You need beefed up tubing if you load the bike in the rear to counteract the "tail wagging the dog". Load the bike up front, forget about the OS tubing and save your money.
-Off the shelf front racks rarely fit properly. A custom one can be had for not much more money. Or, get the off the shelf rack and have your builder make it fit properly.
-brazed on posts for centerpulls (doesn't matter what brand) give you better braking performance. Do you need it? That's a value proposition, can't answer that for you. Why MAFAC's? If you're going wide with fenders, RAID's or Paul's are the answer. Something like "mid-fat", 30ish, you can go with longer reach double pivots and still have room for fenders. So, "it depends". Lots of good brakes to choose from.
-get the lowrider mounts for £30. You'll find a use for them sometime. 8/10 Un-meeting riders can't all be wrong...
Are you a fellow Trojan? Right on, and Fight On!! I knew I liked you for some reason!! (Even if you're not, you're still cool Mark
) ✌️✌ As for the rack, I'm probably going to have one built by the guys at Norther Cycles. Wait a minute...I know you're doing some welding work...are you making racks too?I would love to join in on a BQ Un-Meeting ride someday!! Did you ride that one??
Agreed.
I'd go for OS and I would definitely consider nlerner's suggestion on 853.
I weigh a bit (lots ) more than him, but that tubing is exceptional.
I have low rider mounts on my Hollands, Salsa and my Bilenky. I don't use the low rider panniers all the time, but it was nice to have them on our Lake Superior journey a few years ago. I added my Madden panniers and I was amazed at how much stuff I could put in them. Didn't wreck the handling on the bike either.
I rarely carry that much nowadays though. I just used my Wald basket on my Bilenky this summer. When I needed a little more carrying capacity I added my combos of PR, Swift or Revelate bags. This worked well on a 256 mile trip from Ely to St. Paul. It was a 90% gravel trip and we stayed at inexpensive hotels along the route and it was sweet sleeping in a nice bed.
So, yes, pay the extra to have the low rider mounts added. You'll likely kick yourself if you don't.
I'd go for OS and I would definitely consider nlerner's suggestion on 853.
I weigh a bit (lots
) more than him, but that tubing is exceptional.I have low rider mounts on my Hollands, Salsa and my Bilenky. I don't use the low rider panniers all the time, but it was nice to have them on our Lake Superior journey a few years ago. I added my Madden panniers and I was amazed at how much stuff I could put in them. Didn't wreck the handling on the bike either.
I rarely carry that much nowadays though. I just used my Wald basket on my Bilenky this summer. When I needed a little more carrying capacity I added my combos of PR, Swift or Revelate bags. This worked well on a 256 mile trip from Ely to St. Paul. It was a 90% gravel trip and we stayed at inexpensive hotels along the route and it was sweet sleeping in a nice bed.
So, yes, pay the extra to have the low rider mounts added. You'll likely kick yourself if you don't.
Hi. Here's my 0.02$ on the tubing matter. I do tour on a non-OS steel tubed bike. When fully loaded (including front panniers) I can definitely feel a lot of flex. I'm pretty sure I'll look for OS tubes on my next touring frame for the extra stiffness.
Regarding low rider mounts - even tho you might never use it paying extra for it might be worth it. It's the value added you will probably get back when you try to sell it. Also you might get wider interest in it only because they are there.
Regarding low rider mounts - even tho you might never use it paying extra for it might be worth it. It's the value added you will probably get back when you try to sell it. Also you might get wider interest in it only because they are there.
10-05-16, 09:53 AM
#17
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: lake Oswego, OR
Posts: 322
Bikes: Colnago Mix, Dean El Diente Ti S&S, Lynskey Cooper CX Disc Ti S&S, Mondonico Futura Legerro, DeRosa Primato, Tommaisini Tecno, Ciöcc Mokva80, Colnago Classic, Brompton M6L, Bob Jackson Audax End-E
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I'm not head-over-heels about OS, but I am about very thinwall OS. The best-riding bike I have is a 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggero in Columbus ELOS tubing. Here the ELOS (extra light oversize) TT and DT are 28 mm and 31 mm outer diameter, but the wall thickness of both is 0.4 mm. This would make for an easily dented frame in 531, but Columbus used its modern Nivex steel which is a lot stronger than 531. It is light, springy, responsive and smooth-riding, even though it is a tight, quick, racing design, even with narrow 21 mm clinchers!
At the same time, we have a Terry bike built with Columbus Brain, which has the same Nivex steel, same outer diameters, but the wall thicknesses are 0.6 mm same as venerable and excellent Columbus SL and Reynolds 501. The thicker tubing walls make the Brain a lot stiffer than the ELOS, even though the steel and the outer diameters are the same. And the 0.6 mm Brain in oversize is a lot stiffer than the 0.6 mm SL in standard diameters.
So in oversize, thinwall tubing will be a lot better riding, but the steel has to be of a higher strength, maybe 60% stronger. In Columbus this favors Nivex (ELOS) versus Cyclex (old SL), and in Reynolds this favors 853 versus 531. This is why nlerner suggested you spring for the 853 over the 631 (853 is FAR stronger than 531, where 631 is only 10% stronger than 531, and it is why Columbus and Reynolds don't provide premium oversize tubesets in their classic SL and 531 alloys.
Get the oversize, get the 853, and enjoy the better ride and responsiveness!
Also, send your rack to Bob Jackson's so they can fit it properly, with the mounting points in the right place.
At the same time, we have a Terry bike built with Columbus Brain, which has the same Nivex steel, same outer diameters, but the wall thicknesses are 0.6 mm same as venerable and excellent Columbus SL and Reynolds 501. The thicker tubing walls make the Brain a lot stiffer than the ELOS, even though the steel and the outer diameters are the same. And the 0.6 mm Brain in oversize is a lot stiffer than the 0.6 mm SL in standard diameters.
So in oversize, thinwall tubing will be a lot better riding, but the steel has to be of a higher strength, maybe 60% stronger. In Columbus this favors Nivex (ELOS) versus Cyclex (old SL), and in Reynolds this favors 853 versus 531. This is why nlerner suggested you spring for the 853 over the 631 (853 is FAR stronger than 531, where 631 is only 10% stronger than 531, and it is why Columbus and Reynolds don't provide premium oversize tubesets in their classic SL and 531 alloys.
Get the oversize, get the 853, and enjoy the better ride and responsiveness!
Also, send your rack to Bob Jackson's so they can fit it properly, with the mounting points in the right place.
Is your Mondo a mono-stay? Mine is and I wonder if that's what makes it ride the way it does. How about some pics of your Mondo? Ride on RF!!!
10-05-16, 12:11 PM
#18
Senior Member
I've been convinced to go with the lowriders and OS although staying with the 631. I looked into upgrading to 853 and it would've been another $255 for the frame and fork. Donald said it wouldn't be any lighter, just stiffer. Besides, it turns out that Donald is throwing in the 631 OS upgrade for free because of the size of the order. I'm also doing the Paul posts. It's $350 when taking into account new Pauls and the posts, but probably a worthwhile upgrade. So that's it!! All decided and ordered up!!! 6 weeks till expected delivery!! Thanks bubbas!! All of your inputs have been very valuable to me!!
(plus they are likely to work extremely well)
10-05-16, 01:26 PM
#19
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Are you a fellow Trojan? Right on, and Fight On!! I knew I liked you for some reason!! (Even if you're not, you're still cool Mark ) ✌️✌ As for the rack, I'm probably going to have one built by the guys at Norther Cycles. Wait a minute...I know you're doing some welding work...are you making racks too?
I would love to join in on a BQ Un-Meeting ride someday!! Did you ride that one??
) ✌️✌ As for the rack, I'm probably going to have one built by the guys at Norther Cycles. Wait a minute...I know you're doing some welding work...are you making racks too?I would love to join in on a BQ Un-Meeting ride someday!! Did you ride that one??
If you want a CrMo, chromed rack, talk to Star over at Norther. I do powder coated CrMo and stainless steel - the only place I know that will chrome plate a rack is over in Vancouver, and I don't have time time to run over and back twice. Star does enough chromed racks to take them over, plus he's not too far away from the plater. Stainless has the advantage of needing no finish. It's not as shiny as chrome, I do a satin finish. They're also less expensive. PM me if you're interested.
I've been to the last two BQ Un-Meetings. That pic I posted was from the last one. 8 of us met up at Velocult the morning of the day before and road out through The Gorge to Bridge of the Gods and stopped for lunch at a brewpub. We met up with two other guys that were on the side of the road looking at a map-the both came in from the east coast to attend. Also note that 8 of those bikes have lowriders with panniers. We all were Jan Koolaid drinkers to one degree or other, and noted how easy it was to stand and climb on the long hills with our front loaded bikes. The guys with loads in the back couldn't stand and pedal without weaving around. Most of us camped together, and removed the lowriders for the un-meeting day ride the next day. With a custom lowrider, there's no adjustment necessary-just line up the rack to the attachment points, 3 screws each side, and you're ready to go. The guys with "off the shelf" units took awhile longer to set up and adjust theirs. In addition, with a custom rack you can do hidden wiring for lighting, which makes it a lot easier and protects the wiring. So good for you to have the lowrider mounts put on the fork, you might never use them, but they're there in case you do!
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Last edited by gugie; 10-05-16 at 04:20 PM.
10-05-16, 02:18 PM
#20
aka Tom Reingold
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Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
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I'm sure there's a difference in performance between regular centerpull brakes and centerpulls on brazed-on posts, but I haven't had the chance to try the latter. But I can't imagine why I'd want something better than my current MAFAC brakes. They make me very happy. I admit they're time-consuming to set up, but I'm used to that, and I don't have to mess with them now that I have them working well.
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New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
10-05-16, 03:16 PM
#21
Banned
OP has access to many Portland custom Bike Builders. some like Sasha White have cult status waiting lists.
10-05-16, 03:26 PM
#22
Bike Butcher of Portland
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I'm sure there's a difference in performance between regular centerpull brakes and centerpulls on brazed-on posts, but I haven't had the chance to try the latter. But I can't imagine why I'd want something better than my current MAFAC brakes. They make me very happy. I admit they're time-consuming to set up, but I'm used to that, and I don't have to mess with them now that I have them working well.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
But if I were having a frame built, or other mod being made, or if you've tried bolt-ons and were left disappointed...
Alright guys, that's a softball...
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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