1987 Ironman Expert and Master Frame Differences
10-08-16, 04:54 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
1987 Ironman Expert and Master Frame Differences
Ok All, being the sick individual that we Ironman Owners are, I was comparing my two 1987 Models the other day and noticed some differences in the frame of the two.
1st i know the colors are different and this is just the differences of mainly the lug work between the Master and Expert.
As i don't have a Master and Expert for 1988 and 1989 (just an expert) I am hoping that others can confirm these findings with the other years.
Ok for documentation purposes here are the Subjects
1985 IM Titanium Silver / Blue Metallic (58cm)
1987 Expert Magenta/Yellow (60cm)
1987 Master Bright Green/White (62cm)
1989 Expert Pure Black (60cm)
SeatPost Lug. there are mainly 3 things that i see difference on and i hope i can explain what im trying to say.
1. Seat Stay Taper, The Taper of the Seat Stays have a different shape. the master seems to have a Shallower angle of the taper and the Master comes to a "sharper point than the Expert.
2. Captive Bolt for the Seatpost. The Bolt for the seatpost is recessed in the Master and on the outside on the Expert.
3. The Shape of the lug itself as referred on the Top Tube and the Seat Tube, The master has shorter lugs and the points of the lugs are sharper on the Expert as they are on the master.
THis also seems to be the case for the 1985 Ironman (which became the Master) having shallower angles like the master.
The 1989 Expert has the lugs as the 1987 Expert
1st i know the colors are different and this is just the differences of mainly the lug work between the Master and Expert.
As i don't have a Master and Expert for 1988 and 1989 (just an expert) I am hoping that others can confirm these findings with the other years.
Ok for documentation purposes here are the Subjects
1985 IM Titanium Silver / Blue Metallic (58cm)
1987 Expert Magenta/Yellow (60cm)
1987 Master Bright Green/White (62cm)
1989 Expert Pure Black (60cm)
SeatPost Lug. there are mainly 3 things that i see difference on and i hope i can explain what im trying to say.
1. Seat Stay Taper, The Taper of the Seat Stays have a different shape. the master seems to have a Shallower angle of the taper and the Master comes to a "sharper point than the Expert.
2. Captive Bolt for the Seatpost. The Bolt for the seatpost is recessed in the Master and on the outside on the Expert.
3. The Shape of the lug itself as referred on the Top Tube and the Seat Tube, The master has shorter lugs and the points of the lugs are sharper on the Expert as they are on the master.
THis also seems to be the case for the 1985 Ironman (which became the Master) having shallower angles like the master.
The 1989 Expert has the lugs as the 1987 Expert
10-08-16, 05:12 PM
#2
Senior Member
Holy smokes fleslider, what an eye!
I concur, my 86 pre master and my 88 master the same as your 87 master. My 87 and 89 expert is the same as your 87 and 89 expert. Amazing, and here I thought the forks and components were the main difference. But yes the same differences including seat post bolt.
I concur, my 86 pre master and my 88 master the same as your 87 master. My 87 and 89 expert is the same as your 87 and 89 expert. Amazing, and here I thought the forks and components were the main difference. But yes the same differences including seat post bolt.
10-08-16, 05:25 PM
#3
Senior Member
Pic of 86 pre master/expert and 89 expert.
10-08-16, 05:57 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Hmm it looks to be following a trend, That the Master kept with the same frame ?!? and the expert had a different one.
the easiest way it seems like is the Seat Bolt whether its inset or not and the Seat Stays, whether the ends are rounded or pointed.
the easiest way it seems like is the Seat Bolt whether its inset or not and the Seat Stays, whether the ends are rounded or pointed.
10-08-16, 06:05 PM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
And the top head lug has the same thing, it seems like the Expert Lug is sharper and not as shallow as the Masters.
Excuse the Rear Brake cable on the wrong side of the Stem on the Expert, Didnt really notice til i took the pictures..
Excuse the Rear Brake cable on the wrong side of the Stem on the Expert, Didnt really notice til i took the pictures..
10-10-16, 12:52 PM
#6
Senior Member
It's clear if you own a master you now have to get a expert and vice versa.
Ultimately, just another cool factor and allure of the Ironman.
10-11-16, 10:29 PM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I dont have a 88 anything to actually compare but the Sloped crown fork seems to have stopped in 1987, The unicrown fork on my 87 Expert and 89 Expert look to be exactly the same.
It does look like that the 1985 fork is different than my 87 Master. I will have to do a better comparison, but from a look the other day the crown on the 85 seems different.
It does look like that the 1985 fork is different than my 87 Master. I will have to do a better comparison, but from a look the other day the crown on the 85 seems different.
10-11-16, 10:32 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Thats why i posted, make sure im not crazy...
10-12-16, 12:10 AM
#13
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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I realize we're all a bunch of nerds here on this C&V subforum, but man, you Ironman owners are really a bunch of nerds.
I hope to join the club someday
I hope to join the club someday
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
10-12-16, 06:16 AM
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The seat stay ends on my 87(expert) look more like the teal ones than the MV.(long and pointy) I can't tell from the pictures, but the lug points look to be the similar in length on both TT lugs.(on pictured bikes) On mine the points are different lengths. On the ST lug. the bottom point is 1/2" longer. On the HT lug, the top point is 5/16" longer.
Robbie, did you stay dry in the storm? Is Chico's under water now?
Robbie, did you stay dry in the storm? Is Chico's under water now?
10-12-16, 06:41 AM
#17
Senior Member
What I'm curious to know is : since both 88 and 89 models , both expert and master had a unicrown fork, were there any differences in the forks e.g. tubing, rake?
Also @RobbieTunes will you be posting fleslider findings on the Centurion Ironman Information thread?
Also @RobbieTunes will you be posting fleslider findings on the Centurion Ironman Information thread?
10-12-16, 08:22 AM
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What I'm curious to know is : since both 88 and 89 models , both expert and master had a unicrown fork, were there any differences in the forks e.g. tubing, rake?
Also @RobbieTunes will you be posting fleslider findings on the Centurion Ironman Information thread?
Also @RobbieTunes will you be posting fleslider findings on the Centurion Ironman Information thread?
10-12-16, 01:34 PM
#19
Senior Member
Cool to know, thanks T-Mar.
What I want to know from Ironman Owner's is on a 1988 one being a master and the other being an expert is there a difference in forks? They look the same, but are they?
What I want to know from Ironman Owner's is on a 1988 one being a master and the other being an expert is there a difference in forks? They look the same, but are they?
10-12-16, 06:15 PM
#20
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What I'm curious to know is : since both 88 and 89 models , both expert and master had a unicrown fork, were there any differences in the forks e.g. tubing, rake?
Also @RobbieTunes will you be posting fleslider findings on the Centurion Ironman Information thread?
Also @RobbieTunes will you be posting fleslider findings on the Centurion Ironman Information thread?
10-12-16, 06:37 PM
#21
Death fork? Naaaah!!
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You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.
(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.
(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
10-13-16, 04:15 PM
#23
Death fork? Naaaah!!
Don't know if you saw this from the CCRT fall ride:
Top
Top
__________________
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.
(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.
(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
10-14-16, 07:29 PM
#25
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Like a little fuzz on your photo ? As you all know mw can't take a pic . Anyhow I loves the seat stays . Here is how Centurion did it on the Comp T/A . On the Comp. T/A the distance between the ends of the seat stays (points) is 12.15 mm, oh yah . On my 86 IM it's 26.09mm , the horror .
Last edited by markwesti; 10-14-16 at 07:40 PM.
