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C'Dale ST400 or Miyata 610?

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C'Dale ST400 or Miyata 610?

Old 10-10-16, 07:39 PM
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C'Dale ST400 or Miyata 610?

I just picked up a new (to me) bike today. It's a Miyata 610 from the mid 80s (my guess, will check serial number tomorrow). Bike runs good and seems regularly maintained. Previous owner did Europe trips on it and has had it since new. Looks to be all original except for the fork (black fork, no scuffs on a blue frame showing some age). Seems to need nothing other than the removal of the foam bar "tape".

Problem is I have another bike and can't have two.

Other is an '84 ST400. Runs good but doesn't have the original drive train and the rear wheel has been replaced. I've replaced all the consumables on this bike and it is my city bike. Errands and pulling my son behind on his Trail a Bike. It looks good and has regular wear for a 30 year old.

So I've ridden the Cannondale for 2 years and the Miyata for 1 block. I know I'll get the "spend time on it" response but was interested in opinions only...

Would you keep the 610 or the ST400?
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Old 10-10-16, 08:05 PM
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Ummmm...... why not keep both?

N+1 is a proven scientific fact in terms of bike ownership.

In my opinion I'd keep both, honestly. Maybe you could tell us why you bought it in the first place? Is there a need your original bike doesn't fit?
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Old 10-10-16, 08:13 PM
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Yeah why did you buy get another bike if you knew you could only keep one? I'm in basically the same boat, btw.
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Old 10-10-16, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
Ummmm...... why not keep both?

N+1 is a proven scientific fact in terms of bike ownership.

In my opinion I'd keep both, honestly. Maybe you could tell us why you bought it in the first place? Is there a need your original bike doesn't fit?
I thought the canti breaks on the 610 would allow for easy mounting of a 700 wheelset which would give me more options when my son gets older and we ride ravine trails, etc.

And it seems to be a good bike at a cost I could recoup if need be.

Can't keep both because I live in a small house. No space to keep the +1.
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Old 10-10-16, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay.Money
I thought the canti breaks on the 610 would allow for easy mounting of a 700 wheelset which would give me more options when my son gets older and we ride ravine trails, etc.
Cantilevers are less adaptable than calipers when it comes to changing wheel sizes. If you've got caliper brakes, you can easily swap them for different calipers with a shorter or longer reach. But the bosses for cantilever brakes are permanently positioned.
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Old 10-10-16, 09:38 PM
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Keep them both! I have a ST400 and a Fuji Touring III and they are such different bikes you NEED both!
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Old 10-10-16, 10:13 PM
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Yeah, the cantis on the 610 could be problematic if you're determined to go with a 700c rim, ultimately. New brake hardware will likely be required. Meanwhile, the C-dale might already be able to accommodate them. Is there some room to move the brakepads down in the slots where they ride? My '86 ST500 could take either rim size with its (I think) Dia Compe 500 calipers.

Do you know someone with a set of 700c wheels you could borrow to check the fit on both these bikes?

Beyond that, I'm having trouble with the "only one bike" scenario, frankly. There's a sweet spot between three and twenty, I think, but I'm not really sure how many I have right now.
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Old 10-11-16, 05:56 AM
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My choice would be probaly be the Miyata, assuming you're correct on the age. As a touring bicycle, the Cnannondale is seriously compromised by the caliper brakes and a single set of bottle bosses. While the current cantilevers on the Miyata may not have sufficient range to accommodate 700C, you could always mount a set of more modern cantilevers, or even V-brakes, which typically have more adjustment. Depending on the exact year, the Miyata may also have the advantages on more bottle bosses and lo rider mounts. The Miyata also has the capability to cold set the triangle, should you ever wish to upgrade to 8-9-10 speed.
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Old 10-11-16, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyDog75
Cantilevers are less adaptable than calipers when it comes to changing wheel sizes. If you've got caliper brakes, you can easily swap them for different calipers with a shorter or longer reach. But the bosses for cantilever brakes are permanently positioned.

Hmmm. I thought I read somewhere that canti breaks were an easy switch
...

Ok.

So if I were to keep two bikes, would these too be too similar? IE: shoukd I get a different style of bike (depending on my needs) or just build these two up differently?

I'm gonna go out for a longer ride tonight to check things out.
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Old 10-11-16, 07:28 AM
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No reason to switch rim sizes for different tires options.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ce-thread.html
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Old 10-11-16, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by oddjob2
No reason to switch rim sizes for different tires options.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ce-thread.html
Bam! I found those Paselas for my Cannondale but not the rest of these tirea. This is a game changer. The Miyata may get something a little more knobby. Retro cross.

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Old 10-11-16, 08:29 AM
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My 610 is a very nice ride, but it must be a later model: it takes 700c's.
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Old 10-11-16, 09:11 AM
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I'm in the "keep both" camp and think you can make them into quite different bikes.

I had a 1986 ST400 for a while and even with switching out the pads I never seemed to get very good stopping power with the Rigida rims. Since I have other touring bikes I kept that one as light as I could and ran 27 x 1" Pasela's on it. It was a pretty quick bike with the luxury of a triple for hills.

If it has to be only 1 bike that you keep I would vote for the 610 based on your intended use. The cantilevers offer so much better stopping power and even with 27" wheels you should still be able to find some tires that are fairly knobby. My Miyata 1000 has a fantastic ride and has a very similar frame to your 610. Plus as T-Mar mentioned you can spread the rear triangle for additional gears.
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Old 10-11-16, 09:38 AM
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If the Miyata does have a replacement fork, be sure to check the top and down tubes near the head tube for possible crash damage. Look there for wrinkles in the paint or ovalizing. You can check the latter with a measuring caliper or even an adjustable wrench.

Those are both great bikes. I'd be pretty reluctant to get rid of a Cannondale ST400, though.
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Old 10-11-16, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
If the Miyata does have a replacement fork, be sure to check the top and down tubes near the head tube for possible crash damage. Look there for wrinkles in the paint or ovalizing. You can check the latter with a measuring caliper or even an adjustable wrench.
Good advice. I had a pretty close look yesterday before buying, but will do again today in better light.
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Old 10-11-16, 03:37 PM
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Sell the Miyata and put the money into the Cannondale.

There is no limit to what you can do with an ST frameset: gravel bike, tourer, fast club racer, you name it. Takes any groupset from any era, will NEVER let you down.

But then, perhaps I'm slightly biased...
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Old 10-11-16, 04:08 PM
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Jay.Money, Dual pivot caliper brakes can help braking over single pivot caliper brakes, a real upgrade. @rccardr has already written my sentiments and I suggest you search out some of his ST rebuilds for ideas. The Miyata is a fine bicycle, but I place it behind the Cannondale.

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Old 10-11-16, 07:53 PM
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So a little closer inspection on the bike today...

Frame looks straight.

Spokes look corroded.

Needs consumables (brake cables, tires, bar tape) but I knew that.

I spent a fair bit of time taking stuff off the bike. It had an old lighting system and trip computer and a lever mounted mirror, etc.

The lighting is dynamo. Pretty cool and the front light worked. Didn't look far in to the rear.I was careful removing it... not sure if there is interest in that stuff.

A bit worried about the spokes though. I am going to just ride them and swe what happens. Thoughts? Wheels are true now.

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Old 10-11-16, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
Jay.Money, Dual pivot caliper brakes can help braking over single pivot caliper brakes, a real upgrade. @rccardr has already written my sentiments and I suggest you search out some of his ST rebuilds for ideas. The Miyata is a fine bicycle, but I place it behind the Cannondale.

Brad
Whos ST builds should I search for?
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Old 10-11-16, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
Sell the Miyata and put the money into the Cannondale.

There is no limit to what you can do with an ST frameset: gravel bike, tourer, fast club racer, you name it. Takes any groupset from any era, will NEVER let you down.

But then, perhaps I'm slightly biased...
Why would the ST do these things better than the 610?
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Old 10-11-16, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay.Money
Whos ST builds should I search for?
rccardr, i.e. Dr. Cannondale. He builds some really nice bikes, mostly (I think) with C&V Cannondale frames.
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Old 10-11-16, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by alfonsejr
rccardr, i.e. Dr. Cannondale. He builds some really nice bikes, mostly (I think) with C&V Cannondale frames.
Wow, those are some inspirational bikes.
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Old 10-11-16, 08:51 PM
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I like my 610 that I got for Euro trips, and it is even the older, less desirable model, so I'm probably biased and should stay out of this.
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Old 10-12-16, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay.Money
Whos ST builds should I search for?
Originally Posted by Jay.Money
Wow, those are some inspirational bikes.
Reads like you found them...

Brad
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Old 10-12-16, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
Reads like you found them...

Brad
Ummm, yeah. Beautiful bikes.

Last edited by Jay.Money; 10-12-16 at 07:50 AM.
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