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Is there an "Oldest Klein" thread anywhere

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Is there an "Oldest Klein" thread anywhere

Old 10-21-16, 05:52 PM
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combover
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Is there an "Oldest Klein" thread anywhere

digging around here and looking for an Oldest or earliest Klein serial #'s thread to no avail.....
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Old 10-21-16, 06:40 PM
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Another thread that highlights why VBB needs to throw out their search functionality and lease it from google. You generally need to use a google site: filter to do any kind of searching here. Ex: Enter "site:bikeforums.net early klein" without quotation marks into a google search bar.

Here's a thread from earlier this year that goes over some of the early early Klein history and has a really interesting example of one.

~75/76 Klein - Bike Forums
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Old 10-21-16, 11:49 PM
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^Hey, nice bike! FWIW, I haven't found a serial number on this one and I've been over every inch of the frame and fork/steerer. Possible I missed something, but I doubt it.
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Old 10-22-16, 05:05 AM
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Never mind. Post #2 covered it.
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Old 10-22-16, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir_Name View Post
^Hey, nice bike! FWIW, I haven't found a serial number on this one and I've been over every inch of the frame and fork/steerer. Possible I missed something, but I doubt it.
Like my old Ritchey, it probably never had one!!
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Old 10-22-16, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Like my old Ritchey, it probably never had one!!
Yeah, definitely. Makes it feel just a bit more special. That Ritchey is something else.

@combover, do you have an early Klein??
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Old 10-22-16, 11:27 AM
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Yes I do.... trying to figure out exactly how early it is it is definitely pre Washington... the guy I bought it from is in the middle of moving and says he has the paperwork on the frame but the file cabinet where the paperwork is already in another state so I'm waiting it's going to be a couple weeks before I get the paperwork
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Old 10-22-16, 04:56 PM
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Low #

Hows this for an early Serial #
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Old 10-23-16, 08:39 AM
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That patent pending decal is cool. Should help date but sounds like you will have a definitive purchase date which is great. Can't wait to see that and it be interesting to see if it relates any way to mine.

I have an 87'ish with the same fork crown, same webbing on bb, serial stamp in same spot but with Klein symbol and Q245. From what I read the Q was for Quantum but not positive. Year was ID'd by DuraAce group as it has Aero shifter boss which was referenced in ads from 85-88. Those prototypes in that other thread are 10 or more years younger than mine.

By the way, absolutely love mine, it ranks high for me even out of all the bikes I own. Fast from the get go and responsive.

Edit: just noticed, fork steerer has Columbus or Ishiwata type ridges. Need to look at mine when back in town.

Last edited by Bikerider007; 10-23-16 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 10-23-16, 09:58 AM
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Since it's not practical to cold set a Klein frame, one way to narrow down the model years of pre-Washington era frames, is via the rear dropout spacing. Klein switched to 6 speed spacing for the 1978 model year,
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Old 10-25-16, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by combover View Post
Yes I do.... trying to figure out exactly how early it is it is definitely pre Washington... the guy I bought it from is in the middle of moving and says he has the paperwork on the frame but the file cabinet where the paperwork is already in another state so I'm waiting it's going to be a couple weeks before I get the paperwork
I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd love to see more pics or hear more about it. The color and the eyelet at the dropout remind me of the Stage in "The High-Tech Bicycle" (though the paint on that one appears to have some metallic flake to it). Does yours have the RD cable routed through the chainstay, DT shift lever bosses? What about TT cable routing?

https://diabloscott.blogspot.com/2000...chive.html?m=1
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Old 10-25-16, 06:20 AM
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the rd cable does go through the chain stay, the rear brake cable runs along the top of the top tube, only has one downtube shifter boss , (Mr.Klein says it was ordered that way and that this is a California frame built right here in the town I live in) I will post more pics when I figure out how to post them right side up as well as original build suggestions, paint doesn't look metallic and the color was custom as well....
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Old 01-06-17, 08:13 PM
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Pic assist.





















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Old 01-06-17, 09:45 PM
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Interesting bike.
I got to test ride one in October 1975, while it was too big, I got off and stated, this is The future of the criterium bike. It really made you smile for how it felt like there was NO bottom bracket flex. I was not sure how it would feel at the end of a 100 mile road race.
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Old 01-07-17, 08:16 AM
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Was year ever figured out on this one?
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Old 01-07-17, 09:28 AM
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Not yet. At least not to my knowledge. Not a lot to go by.

Verbose version:

At first, the eyelets on the dropouts had me think it was possibly the 'Stage' model, though comparing to the pink Klein in "The High-Performance Bicycle" the wheelbase seems much shorter and the angles steeper here. Also, no mounting provisions for a rack on the seatstays above the brake bridge as w/ "THPB" example, so I'd guess 'Criterium' model. The RD cable routing through the chainstay, seat cluster, fork crown (from what I can tell, not much detail in "THPB") all agree with those details shown in "The High-Performance Bicycle".

Three notable difference are:
1) The single rear shift lever braze-on on this frame ("THPB" example has two shift lever braze-ons in standard configuration at ~3&9 o'clock)
2) The location of the TT cable guides. The guides on "THPB" example appear to be offset slightly from 12 o'clock to the NDS, where the guides on this example are offset to the DS. The brake calipers appear to be the same on both bikes, so perhaps the rear brake caliper was originally intended to be run inside the rear triangle by Mr. Klein / the person this was built for.
3) The droupouts in "THPB" example have a double set of eyelets that extend the above the rearward face of the DOs, forming two 'bumps' along that face akin to the braze-on steel type we're all used to seeing. Here, the single set of eyelets appear to be drilled and tapped into the 'body' of the DO. Beyond just the eyelets, the general shape of the DOs on this bike agree well with those on mine (no eyelets) which pre-dates "THPB" example. Maybe the 'Stage' and 'Criterium' models mentioned in "THPB" had two different DO styles with and without the double eyelet treatment. The Criterium model having the slimmer, earlier design DOs above. My guess is those DOs put this bike earlier than "THPB" example.

It's worth noting that the fork crown on my ~'75/'76 is much plainer than the one here and mine does not have the RD cable routing through the CS, nor brazed-on shift lever bosses. Most other details are very similar. If this bike is 126, I'd guess it's not too far removed from the '78 transition date, if it's 120 it's probably right up against that date ('78 being the transition date from 120-126 thanks to T-mar above).

So, according to the above recounting from Mr. Klein, this is an early California bike. It appears to be roughly contemporary to the example in my 1982 "The High Performance Bicycle", maybe earlier. @combover, confirming the rear spacing is 120 or 126 would help, along with confirming the serial number - '09'? Did Mr. Klein give you any more details or did you ever get the paperwork for this frameset?

The copy of "THPB" I have is 1982, but unfortunately does not mention the build date or serial number for that bike. I need to refresh on when Mr. Klein moved from Massachusetts to California, as this would be a CA bike according to a post above. This bike seems to be somewhere between '78 and '82. This assumes 126 spacing and that the customer did not specifically request 120 after '78. I'll throw a dart at 1980ish.

I need to brush up on any copyright issues, but it may be useful for me to provide images with credit of "The High Performance Bicycle" text and pictures pertaining to Klein since that's a good early source. Any guidance here?

One other detail - checking the first couple pages of the '82 copy of "THPB", photo credit is given to the Klein Corporation, Chehalis, Washington. So, if I recall correctly, Mr. Klein would have been building in CA prior to WA (unless HQ and the build location are different) and this bike would be pre-'82. I need to brush up on the various move dates as those seem to be the key here.

Most important would be if @combover got the papers for this frame from the previous owner.

Last edited by Sir_Name; 01-07-17 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 01-07-17, 10:46 AM
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Late 70's to early 80's a few years before Cannondale came out with their bicycles.
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