Headset identification help please
 

I recently picked up what looks to be an early 70's Bottecchia frame which came with this headset. I'm thinking it could be a Bottecchia unit except it doesn't have their name cast in as I've seen on other Botty headsets. It's also the only one I've seen with the toothed adjuster washer and that was made to be hand tightened. I've seen pictures however of a Bottecchia lower head tube that had what looks like this same lower headset in it... but no shots of the upper set were available. If it helps, there are 3 pin wrench slots cut in the top nut, and it takes a pretty standard pair of caged bearings.

Any help appreciated, thanks,

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5679/3...de4ebd7d_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5571/3...745ceb13_b.jpg

Only serrated headset I know of is stronglight. Not always branded.

Yes, it is much like some of the Stronglights, but all of them I've been able to find pictures of (which isn't many) have only the top cup serrated. Could be though.

So we don't think it's actually a Rinko possibly from Alps and or Hirose?

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Do not recall seeing a Carnielli product previously with this set. Usually, Bottecchia bikes around this quality level at this era received a WAY-Assuato. That is what was also on the recently posted Lygie.

Will be interested to read an identification. Perhaps [MENTION=57649]iab[/MENTION] will recognise this set.

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I don't know but I'm having my doubts, which however are based on very little knowledge of Rinko in general and so could be wrong.

My thoughts though are that Rinko is relatively new (yes, no?) and this headset just reeks of the 70s. It's not new at all in its construction. I wouldn't doubt that it's original to this frame which is an early Bottecchia and I think probably early - mid 70's (although I've never seen one like this on a Botty). Also, all the Rinko's I've seen use a cartridge bearing allowing for easy clean handling when the fork is taken apart. This uses plain old caged balls.

Not much to go on, certainly not definitive, but it's got me thinking otherwise.

Thanks Juvela, I was waiting for you to chime in as I know you've been around a few Botty's over the years. I've been doing quite a bit of Googling and looking at pictures of various old Bottecchias and so far haven't seen anything like this. Somewhere I did see just a bottom race that was knurled, but now I cant find that picture to follow up and try to see what it is.

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Agrati had one model of hs which was somewhat similar but not an exact match.

Like everyone else, when I see the three dogs and the knurling combined tend to think "francese."

Wylde idea: wonder if it could be a British hs which someone has fitted; from one of the usual suspects such as Brampton, Bayliss-Wiley, T.D. Cross, etc. Just a wacky thought, not an assertion.

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Buongiorno Don Edoardo,

Came across another Teddy wearing this HS. Alas, still do not know its name. If nothing else, gives support to the thought that it is original equipment. As you doubtless learned from your extensive research Carnielli does not list the non-Tullio headset makers in its model crosstables.

The poster of this machine lists it as "Campione del Mondo 1966" as though that were its model name and year. Does not seem to understand that this transfer was applied to all/many Carnielli prodotti at one time...

http://www.lazuccheriera.it/wp-conte.../05/Bot-04.jpg

Here is the link to the blog entry for this machine -

La Zuccheriera | BOTTECCHIA ?Campione Del Mondo 1966?

For comparison here is a 1959 Bottecchia fitted with the more commonly seen WAY-Assauto:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...7.jpg~original

Headset evolution -

Found two very similar Carnielli road machines dated at 1949 and 1950-51 respectively. Both are fitted with a headset which has a three-dog knurled lognut, serrated lock washer and knurled cups. They may well be Giostra products ("Magistroni') but can make no claim to know their identity. There is not quite enough res in the pictures to read the writing on the adjustable cup.

1949 example -

paramanubrio: Bottecchia 1949

1950-51 example -

Bici Classiche : Bottecchia 1950/51

Hope this does not simply add to the mystery... :foo:

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some similarities:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/speedp...7625772148352/
^
1940s / yours perhaps a later variation?

Thanks very much! :thumb:

Had been leaning toward Giostra but wanted additional evidence; you have found it. :)

OP's headset would not have had the Magistroni name as Giostra ceased using this in 1965 and launched the OFMEGA marque in 1966. So if one could find a new one of these in the box contemporaneous with the blue frame it would be so marked. Common for OFMEGA parts to bear no marque or else that of the bicycle manufacturer.

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Very interesting guys! At this point I'm going with the headset being original to the bike, and I guess from what your saying Juvela, the frame must be post 1965 as my headset has no markings of any kind.

That headset on Flickr certainly looks related to the one I have, I'd agree that mine is a Magistroni.

Unfortunately this frame didn't come with any stickers to give me a rough idea of when it was made. This helps place it a little at least.

Interestingly, it has a serial number on the underside of the BB which I've not seen on these old Bott's, plus I don't think it follows the numbering style used on the later frames. It also just doesn't look "right" to be factory stamped, I think its something someone did later to identify the frame. Perhaps with a hope of identifying it if it was stolen.

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CoRide59 wrote -


"Interestingly, it has a serial number on the underside of the BB which I've not seen on these old Bott's, plus I don't think it follows the numbering style used on the later frames. It also just doesn't look "right" to be factory stamped, I think its something someone did later to identify the frame. Perhaps with a hope of identifying it if it was stolen."

Is there paint in the markings perfectly matching the balance of the frame? If so, one would think them original. If not one would think them of a post-manufacture origin, perhaps entered by a licensing agent...

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As regards dating of blue frame. It appears clearly later than 1965 to my eye. IIRC Carnielli changed their lugs for the road models ~1968. Caveat - am not one of the forum's Carnielli experts so if am incorrect am happy to defer to those with greater knowledge.

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I tend to agree on your post 65 thought. This one looks identical to my white frame, which I think is late 60's, perhaps 70 or 71. Lugs and all, its the same. The only stylistic difference I see is the use of pinstriping around the lugs. It's red on my frame, and white on the blue one you posted a picture of.

One date hint could come from the bottom bracket. It's a late stepped cup Nuovo Record, but I've not been able to figure out yet when Campagnolo changed the design. Of course, dating the frame based on this would require a leap of faith that the bottom bracket is original.