Old french frame?
 

Hello, I pulled this frame out of the town scrap metal and would like to rebuild it. I think it is french because of the narrow front fork, 80mm and Nervar crank and Stronglight headset. The only marking is A 2421 on the left rear dropout which is Campagnolo Brev? Any ideas would be appreciated. I will try to upload some photos.

Typically a campagnolo dropout is a sign of high quality. You'll get more feedback after posting pictures.

Possibly French, but at 80mm a bit narrow fork for even the French. If you have the crank, that implies the BB is installed. Any markings on the BB? If no markings, rings on the fixed side face, the number of wrench flats on the fixed, or even the knurling on the lock ring can be telling. Photos will tell the tale better.

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pics of the bike
 

Thanks folks,

This link will access an album with photos of the bike. The headset is a Stronglight Competition, the stem is SR Royal and the handlebar is SR World Champion. No number on the bottom bracket, the fork looks like is has been squeezed a bit; more like 90-100mm. The only marking is on the left rear dropout. A2421.

Thanks again.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskNxnqWr

Attached this photo link.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskNxnqWr

The stem is SR Royal and the h/b is SR World Champion, headset is Stronglight Competition

Thanks

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Shell metric/french threaded. Serial may turn out to be best clue to identity. Have seen before this placement and format but cannot recall a name to go with it. One possibility is Urago. Chainset and headset appear like they may be original to cycle while other fittings are not. Blades have been pressed together. Original spacing would have been 100mm. Are pedals Lyotard model 36? Not enough light to tell if they are Lyotard or Eclair. Spot of brass on top tube may indicate removal of braze-on or it may just be the filling of a ding for this latest respray. Appears to have been sanded for this present respray. Also just conceivable it could be Swiss; not an assertion.

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Looks like a nice, quality bike.

Thanks folks,

The mystery continues, the pedals are Weco, made in Germany. After some sanding with 1200 paper, the words started to appear!

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Thank you. This company also produces/produced hubs.

Do not think bicycle is from one of "the big five" producers.

Would expect a pillar size of 26.6mm for it.

Tubeset will be metric ("french") dimension.

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Thanks, I would like to pin down the maker, if possible. The only number is on the rear dropout A2421. The pillar size is just that, 26.6mm , who are the big "5" if I might ask?

Peugeot, Motobecane, Gitane, Bertin, Mercier.

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Ideas for you -

In the photo album there is one image of the complete frameset. It likely contains information which may be of help to readers but is too small of a format and poorly lit to be of much value. If it could be remade in larger format and better illumination it may twig a reader's memory...

Is there any evidence of headplate fastener holes being filled in?

If you were to demount headset you would be able to examine steerer. It may display the same serial exhibited by dropout. It may also display a mark from tubing maker. French production framesets which are nominally eleven tube 531 oftimes "cheat" and employ a NERVOR steerer for economy/convenience. On a frameset of this calibre I would expect to see a mark from the tubeset maker such as Reynolds or Vitus.

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you can almost see evidence of a (possibly) 531 sticker having been removed, or more likely removed itself by aging and that reinforces the guess that it's a metric 531 frame. Can the experts tell enough from the close-up of the BB shell to name the brand of shell? I'd guess it's different from a Nervex pro shell since the socket treatments look "fancy" but not Nervex fancy, and that shell might also have the brand and lengthy serial numbers stamped that Nervex used.
Yes, it does look to be a high-quality frame.

Thanks for the great ideas, I have included some new photos in the album. The holes for the headplate are visible, ignore the green line, my attempt to help figure out what might have been there? 2 holes on top and 1 on the bottom.

On top of the down tube, the only braze on the bike appears to be for the shifter. (photo included) Working on demounting the headset and full frame photo.

The seat tube photo does show what may have been a label? Bottom bracket photos included.

Regards

https://flic.kr/s/aHskNxnqWr

Thanks, after some careful inspection with a magnifying glass, the downtube has a faint marking, REYNOLDS BUTTED 21/24. Is this a marking for 753 tubing. Does anyone know what other markings would be associated with this?

21/24 is the British gauge designation. 0.8/0.5mm, so not the lightest and not the heavy stuff.
I would expect the seatpost size to be 26.6mm

A quality frame for sure. I would concentrate on the outline of the headbadge, which should at least eliminate a lot of contenders.

Tubeset will be 531c. Frame predates introduction of 753 by a decade or more.

Pentagonal braze-on on downtube is a no-slide pib; keeps shift lever clamp from sliding and means it does not have to be torqued so tightly.

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I think it really is trying to say it is a Follis.

Yep I agree, looks like a Follis to me. Measure the distance between the holes and I will compare with mine (assuming the size of the badge did not change). http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...psubgbvp1r.jpg

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Thanks for these new posts! :thumb:

OP has begun a new thread on the cycle's headplate here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ead-plate.html

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Thanks, the holes measure the same within +/- 0.5mm. I wonder if the serial number on the rear dropout A2421 could indicate the frame size and tubing thickness. The faint marking on the down tube is Reynolds Butted 21/24? Great effort on everyone's part, the next step will be to upload the restoration pictures ( that may take a bit longer!!)

The incredible depth of knowledge here at the communal C&V borg continues to amaze me.

One of these days someone should start a "I can name that bike in (fill in the blank) pictures.

"I'd like to confess your honour. The entire matter is gugie's fault." ;)

Could well be a French make from a smaller producer or Italian, also from a smaller producer/workshop. I recently found one: http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ry-aquila.html and it has similarities. Check the inside of the brake handles. There might be a date stamped in them. Also on the back of the brakes themselves. My Dia Comps had dates. Good luck!