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Drilling a fork & brake bridge for recessed

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Drilling a fork & brake bridge for recessed

Old 11-09-16, 11:33 AM
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Wildwood
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Drilling a fork & brake bridge for recessed

Maybe a thread for Mechanics forum, but you folks have never given bad advice.

I would like to drill a early 80's frame to take recessed brakes (and keep a groupset complete).

The fork does not appear too complicated - maybe even possible with a hand drill, I think.
The rear brake bridge has an insert (sleave?) that looks worrisome for my limited skills and lack of a drill press.
Thoughts appreciated.
Or should I blow-off groupset integrity and buy modern nutted from VO.
TIA
edit: I'll also contact a local builder to see the cost - if they will do it.
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Batavus fork for nutted.jpg (89.8 KB, 437 views)
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Batavus rear brake nutted.jpg (86.6 KB, 402 views)
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Batavus rear brake nutted 2.jpg (91.2 KB, 398 views)
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Old 11-09-16, 11:41 AM
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Just do it Sheltons way. Spend $7 on a longer (25mm or so) recessed nut and put the back brake on front, front brake on back. Tthen you only have to drill the fork, which is easy and totally doable with a hand drill.
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Old 11-09-16, 12:43 PM
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Sheldon-ed again!?!
Thanks

Other options?
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Old 11-09-16, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon3 View Post
Just do it Sheltons way. Spend $7 on a longer (25mm or so) recessed nut and put the back brake on front, front brake on back. Tthen you only have to drill the fork, which is easy and totally doable with a hand drill.
+10000

totally easy and low risk. have done this multiple times.
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Old 11-09-16, 12:59 PM
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Yup -- don't doubt the late and great Sheldon -- he knew his stuff!
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Old 11-09-16, 01:00 PM
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You could do it the way you're thinking but without a drill press you're taking a pretty big risk on ruining the frame.
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Old 11-09-16, 01:02 PM
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There's no "meat" in the fork crown or brake bridge to drill down to. You 'd need a larger hole for the recessed bolt, and material for the shoulder of the bolt to rest on.

Here's a fork crown that would take a recessed nut:


Also rear brake bridge:


A framebuilder could braze in some material to do the same, but now you're talking about repainting. A lot of work and money. You can't just drill it out to accept one, it needs a "stop" on the backside, material that you don't have on this frame.
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Old 11-09-16, 01:07 PM
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I'm also in Washinton State, for now. My neighbor is a frame builder and he could install a new bridge and modify your fork for probably less $ than you'd think. Of course, you'd also need a repaint of the frame and then that begins to add up. Might as well go the Sheldon Brown route.

Installing and Adjusting Caliper Brakes
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Old 11-09-16, 01:16 PM
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So based on @gugie 's input = drilling the fork may NOT be ideal (...there's no 'meat' in the fork crown)? Although there is no 'meat' there presently.


If that's true, then it's nutted from VO.


I don't want to braze/repaint.
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Old 11-09-16, 01:19 PM
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IIRC -- and it's been a while -- the usual thing was to drill out a concave washer for the rear brake bridge. Obviously that is sort of a hack and one IMO to be avoided. If you do decide to drill out the rear, do not drill it all the way through, only far enough to take the nut. The part of the bridge next to the brake should remain untouched.

I vote for nutted brakes, but prefer the Sheldon method to full redrill.
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Old 11-09-16, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
So based on @gugie 's input = drilling the fork may NOT be ideal (...there's no 'meat' in the fork crown)? Although there is no 'meat' there presently.


If that's true, then it's nutted from VO.


I don't want to braze/repaint.
using the sheldon method, the amount of metal removed from the "drilling" is shavings only, not much at all, your less drilling than slightly enlarging the hole on the back of the fork. Weight is measured in milligrams not grams of material removed
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Old 11-09-16, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
using the sheldon method, the amount of metal removed from the "drilling" is shavings only, not much at all, your less drilling than slightly enlarging the hole on the back of the fork. Weight is measured in milligrams not grams of material removed
The issue I see is that the backside of your fork crown is round, and it needs to be flat for the shoulder of the recessed nut to sit against. You could drill that out, and drill out one of those half-concave spacers, but to what point? It would still look hokey.

Sheldon is the way to go.
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Old 11-09-16, 01:40 PM
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Got it.
Thanks.
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Old 11-09-16, 02:10 PM
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my method was to put the front brake on the rear, then get a coupler for the front fork (needed a bit of shaving down to fit perfectly)


you need a small wrench but it works. it acts as an extension and a bridge. of course you end up with a bolt in the back and not recessed... but it saves you from modifying the fork.
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Old 11-09-16, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
The issue I see is that the backside of your fork crown is round, and it needs to be flat for the shoulder of the recessed nut to sit against. You could drill that out, and drill out one of those half-concave spacers, but to what point? It would still look hokey.

Sheldon is the way to go.
i will try to remember to take a pic and post....IIRC it didn't look hokey.....but memory is funny thing....

and this is the exact way sheldon recommends, drill out back for front fork, get long recessed nut, rear brake on front, front brake on back using a nut
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Old 11-09-16, 03:51 PM
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Gugie is overcomplicating it, at least up front. You don't need additional meat on the fork crown. You drill the hole the right size for the nut to fit into, and its shoulder rests on the outside of your drilled hole. You don't need to recess the nut shoulder. Yes, I admit it's not as "recessed" as the pic of the proper crown he shows, but it works. No meat lost.
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Old 11-09-16, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
Gugie is overcomplicating it, at least up front. You don't need additional meat on the fork crown. You drill the hole the right size for the nut to fit into, and its shoulder rests on the outside of your drilled hole. You don't need to recess the nut shoulder. Yes, I admit it's not as "recessed" as the pic of the proper crown he shows, but it works. No meat lost.
Take a look at the OP's fork image:



You could just drill it out, but then the flat of the recessed nut would rest on a cylindrical edge. That recessed nut shoulder wants to rest on another flat area.
@jetboy fork is flat on the back. Just drilling it out works fine:
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Old 11-09-16, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
You could just drill it out, but then the flat of the recessed nut would rest on a cylindrical edge. That recessed nut shoulder wants to rest on another flat area.

I agree that a flat area is preferable [and prettier]. But the nut doesn't really care much. There aren't really any twisting forces, and you don't have to torque it down that much. I've done it w/o issues.

Can't see any nuts here. (Yes, i know it's not close-up enough to see much )
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Old 11-09-16, 04:42 PM
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No offense to Gugie, who has a lot of experience, but I have done this several times and it works just fine. I drill out the hole and use use the rear brake on the front, and use a washer like this:



To give the nut more purchase. Then I use the front brake on the rear (no drilling needed) and I'm good to go.

edit: truth be told, I have done it without the washer a couple times, too, and it worked fine. It looks better with the washer, though!
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Old 11-09-16, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
No offense to Gugie, who has a lot of experience, but I have done this several times and it works just fine. I drill out the hole and use use the rear brake on the front, and use a washer like this:



To give the nut more purchase. Then I use the front brake on the rear (no drilling needed) and I'm good to go.

edit: truth be told, I have done it without the washer a couple times, too, and it worked fine. It looks better with the washer, though!
If you've got a set of brakes that are recessed, and a frame that isn't, I'd see the point. Rereading the OP's post, I think he does, so, sure, slight mod to the frame to make it work.

My initial read was that he wanted to make recessed work without a set of brakes on hand.
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Old 11-09-16, 06:23 PM
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I've done it with the concave washers that lostarchitect posted an image of. Looks perfect, works perfect. Go for it.
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Old 11-09-16, 07:06 PM
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The rear brake bridge tube that goes through the bridge along the axis of the brake bolt may have a thinner OD (which is hidden) than the hole you drill for the recessed nut. Plus, the seat tube is in the way. It might get ugly. It'll be a one-way trip. Front mod would be safe, as above.

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Old 11-09-16, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CrankyFranky View Post
The rear brake bridge tube that goes through the bridge along the axis of the brake bolt may have a thinner OD (which is hidden) than the hole you drill for the recessed nut. Plus, the seat tube is in the way. It might get ugly. It'll be a one-way trip.
You don't drill the rear bridge. You just use the front caliper and a nut.
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Old 11-09-16, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
You don't drill the rear bridge. You just use the front caliper and a nut.
Understood. The OP appeared to suggest that though, at first.
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Old 11-09-16, 10:52 PM
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Here is a YouTube video on the topic. The front fork part is more towards the end.

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