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I understand why people .....

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I understand why people .....

Old 11-27-16, 08:01 PM
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I understand why people .....

Love friction shifters! I have rebuilding a 1991 Trek Multitrack 7900 and the original DX 3x7 rapid fire shifters were not working properly. When I started looking for replacements, I got lucky and found a set of Deore 3x7 thumb shifters. I installed them today after making sure they were lubed and cleaned properly. Friction shifting is amazingly smooth and quiet! The 7 speed shifter indexes perfectly but I don't see my self using the feature. Discovering things like this makes me wish I had never stopped cycling as a kid. I have not experienced such smooth, quiet and effortless shifts before in my life. I know now when i decide to start working on building a gravel bike what type of shifters it will have.
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Old 11-27-16, 08:09 PM
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Friction shifting is the mot precise shifting. My old road bike has friction stem shifters and they work perfectly and shifts are silent. My MTB has Deore XT thumbies set on friction for the same experience.
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Old 11-27-16, 08:13 PM
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I'll put my Campy 2nd-gen Chorus RD and C-record DT friction shifters (+ 8sp Record cassette) against anybody's shifting of anything.
Most often, I stop pedaling, move the DT lever and my hand back to the bar, pedal again, and it shifts as mindlessly as my 2x9 indexed thumbies on another bike.


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Old 11-27-16, 10:08 PM
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Yep, I don't really understand why people who don't race are willing to put up with the extra expense, weight, fragility, and semi-frequent adjustment of road brifters. Slightly faster shifting when ET doesn't matter just doesn't seem worth the penalties. With mountain stuff the weight difference is a non-issue, but the other problems are still there and I'd think that the harsh-environment reliability of simple friction shifters would make them preferable. That said, I do have a set of RapidFailure shifters on my Project-7 and have to get them working again every time I ride it, which leads to it not seeing many miles.
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Old 11-27-16, 10:19 PM
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Personally, I prefer the clutched goodness of Simplex Retrofriction shifters- then the buttery goodness of either the Suntour Sprint or the Sachs/Huret ultra fine toothed ratcheting shifters. I like indexed shifting when it works well. And I like Suntour's regular old ratcheting shifting. I prefer all of those- in that order, above even the finest pure friction shifting.

Pure friction shifting isn't my bag, baby.
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Old 11-28-16, 12:09 AM
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I don't think anything beats electronic shifting (I can only speak for Dura Ace since I haven't tried anything else), fast, accurate. Their (SARM too) mechanical shifting isn't bad at all. Now, old fashion friction DT shifters aint too bad. I grew up training and racing on them and that was the only thing available. As far as shifting fast is concern, its not too bad reaching down to flip a little lever. I have taken my old Casati from the 80s to my local hammer head ride, and survived just fine but I do prefer modern shifters especially my electronic doo-dads. In all my years of racing, I have never had to shift 5 gears quick. The most was just two.
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Old 11-28-16, 12:27 AM
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DT shifters with the aero(?) brake levers that route the brake cable under the bar tape. That is a clean look. I started with DT friction shifters on my Varsity back in the 60's. Now a vintage road bike is part bicycle... and part time machine.
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Old 11-28-16, 07:01 AM
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I equate friction shifting to my son playing the trombone. He doesn't need to feel where the slide positions are for different notes, from years of practice, his muscles just know. His ears tell him if any fine adjustment is needed. BTW there are seven positions for a trombone slide. On student instruments, they may be lightly etched into the tubing.
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Old 11-28-16, 08:51 PM
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I just use The Force and my derailleurs shift themselves...
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Old 11-29-16, 08:40 PM
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I gots' one word for ya , well OK two or three. SHIMANO 600 SIS .
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Old 11-29-16, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by markwesti View Post
I gots' one word for ya , well OK two or three. SHIMANO 600 SIS .
Ultegra forerunner?
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Old 11-29-16, 10:36 PM
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The only thing I have found to be better is Di2.

I just recently took off my downtube friction shifters when I installed a 3X11 Athena on an old Bianchi. Now I am wondering if I should have kept them in place, but I was worried they wouldn't work well with a triple in front and 11 speed in back.
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Old 11-29-16, 10:45 PM
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I'm about ready to switch to a friction shifter, at least for the front derailer, after a week of messing with Rapidfire thumbies. Can't get it to downshift properly. It either hangs on the big ring or skips the middle chain ring. Upshifting from small to large rings works okay. But I've disassembled, cleaned, lubed, and reassembled three times, including with a new cable to replace a kinked older cable. No help.

The tricky bit is keeping the original cantilever brakes. If I detach the shifter pod there's still a mounting plate sticking out attached to the brake lever. Doesn't leave much room for mounting a friction thumb shifter.
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Old 11-29-16, 11:44 PM
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Indexing doesn't belong on FD's. Early gen Ergos seem to be the best compromise for brifters and FD's.

I'll see your Simplex Retrofriction and raise you a Reftrofrtiction bar-end shifter. Like butter.

I have to say, though, that an indexed bar end is the bomb diggity for half-step setups. Call me a heretic, but remember that it also has a friction mode if something goes on the indexing (has anyone ever had anything wear out with SIS indexing?) .
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Old 11-30-16, 12:18 AM
  #15  
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Best thing about friction shifters, if you're in the middle of nowhere and you have a problem it doesn't take rocket science and a mass of specialty tools to fix it. They simply work all the time and no matter the weather.

That being said my main bike a Kuwahara, has Suntour Accushift indexed shifters and I love them. The nice thing is you can loosen them up into being straight friction shifting when needed. Kinda sad they didn't catch on at the time.
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Old 11-30-16, 09:55 AM
  #16  
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"DT shifters with the aero(?) brake levers that route the brake cable under the bar tape. That is a clean look." You got that right, Dave. I put Shimano aeros (travesty to the Italian purists!) on my Bianchi because they fit my hands better than the Modolo nonaeros and gave me another 10-15% braking force.

The worst are the RapidFire and other triggered units, because they are so unreliable and generally nonrepairable.

My other favored setup is good old SunTour ratchet barcons on my UO-8.
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Old 11-30-16, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SamSpade1941 View Post
Ultegra forerunner?
I believe you are correct Sam .Shimano 600 History | LIVESTRONG.COM
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Old 11-30-16, 12:11 PM
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Were I to ride only one bike, I can see where I would become automatic at hitting the sweet spot, with each shift. However, I ride more than one, some pure friction...



some indexed (not mine anymore but shifted perfect every time)...



and the kind I most appreciated, Brifters...



These days. to be honest, the friction shifters hang on the wall, most of the time.
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Old 12-01-16, 01:43 AM
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The silence, smoothness, and organic nature of pure friction shifters is something I very much do like and enjoy when I have the riding scenario to allow it. It's not about absolute speed or performance, but enjoying the journey.

Since I commute on any of the bikes in my stable in a stop-and-go fast-and-slow noisy city environment, I prefer the assurance and immediacy of indexing so that I can safely ride among traffic and/or keep pace with it. Three decades on, Shimano's SIS units operate flawlessly, and any non-Dura Ace 6/7/8 speed is a treat--smooth, supple shift effort, and very quiet. Dura Ace operates wonderfully, but if you're not in the mood for vocal shift detentes, then it won't be your jam. Full disclosure: I have a 7900-era 10s DA DT shift setup that feels and sounds identical to my 7s units--I buy what I "sell."

For pure friction shifting, I have found that running a Uniglide (twist tooth) or Hyperglide cog set greatly aids shift feel, speed, and margin of error with regard to "getting the gear right" upon shifting. For me, get that block-tooth straight cut stuff off my bike! Maybe it was it being a 7s with requisite spacing as opposed to 6- or 5-speed, but a brand new freewheel with no tooth sculpting sounded and felt pretty poor, even if it looked good (all black SunTour unit). Too bad. Though, on the flip side, stick with blockier toothed or Uniglide cassettes with Accushift as a Hyperglide cassette may encourage rapid ghost shifting. That was a fun one to figure out.

But back to the OP. I get friction shifting, too. Great stuff and a reminder to enjoy bicycling!
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Old 12-01-16, 02:18 AM
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Another advantage of DT friction shifters (really all DT shifters) is near complete immunity to damage in crashes. Yes, if you hit them hard from the side, the lever breaks. But has anyone here ever seen that? I never have and I live in a body that reminds me every day how many crashes it has seen. I have never heard of a DT shifter breaking 2nd hand or 3rd hand either.

I have heard of folks getting stabbed by bar ends and stem shifters and we all know brake levers get trashed regularly in crashes. (Yes, I have hit my DT levers a few times, but always climbing ridiculous hills in big gears - with my knee. Only damage was to my quads - trying to get up those suckers in a 42-13!)

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Old 12-01-16, 02:27 AM
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Do you guys think friction shifting would work with all the gears they have these days, or would it be completely annoying?

Personally I dislike having too many gears lol. Only because I can't make my mind up which I like best, and being a BMX'er I learned to adapt to the bike and not the other way around. Also it's pretty flat where I live.

How often do people change gears with 27 speeds?
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Old 12-01-16, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Another advantage of DT friction shifters (really all DT shifters) is near complete immunity to damage in crashes. Yes, if you hit them hard from the side, the lever breaks. But has anyone here ever seen that? I never have and I live in a body that reminds me every day how many crashes it has seen. I have never heard of a DT shifter breaking 2nd hand or 3rd hand either.

I have heard of folks getting stabbed by bar ends and stem shifters and we all know brake levers get trashed regularly in crashes. (Yes, I have hit my DT levers a few times, but always climbing ridiculous hills in big gears - with my knee. Only damage was to my quads - trying to get up those suckers in a 42-13!)

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My wife's bike fell over when parked and the front wheel turned to the left far enough for the brake to hit the DT shifter, breaking the back plate.
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Old 12-01-16, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cbrstar View Post
Do you guys think friction shifting would work with all the gears they have these days, or would it be completely annoying?

Personally I dislike having too many gears lol. Only because I can't make my mind up which I like best, and being a BMX'er I learned to adapt to the bike and not the other way around. Also it's pretty flat where I live.

How often do people change gears with 27 speeds?
I hang out on RBW owners bunch and iBoB google groups. Many people there friction shift their 10- and 11-sp drivetrains. I personally draw the line at 8, and we have two bikes that index 9.

you change gears as often as you need to. Most of the time I ride in 70-80" gears. But I live in big hills and the momentum from taller gears downhill gets you most of the way up the next grade. It's also a 400' climb with up to 14% grade for me to get home. I use 30" gears for that climb and like having even smaller in reserve.

Last edited by bulldog1935; 12-01-16 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 12-01-16, 07:00 AM
  #24  
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A few years back I did a charity ride on a Superbe Pro/Mavic(Simplex) Retrofriction bike and couldn't get over how much quieter it was than all the brifter bikes when shifting.

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Old 12-01-16, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by cbrstar View Post
Do you guys think friction shifting would work with all the gears they have these days, or would it be completely annoying?

Personally I dislike having too many gears lol. Only because I can't make my mind up which I like best, and being a BMX'er I learned to adapt to the bike and not the other way around. Also it's pretty flat where I live.

How often do people change gears with 27 speeds?
I hear what your saying, but wouldn't using all gears available be adapting to your bike. And to answer your question, with 9 speed brifters and hilly terrain I feel like I'm constantly shifting. With down tube shifters and 6 speed I tough it out. And feel more comfortable and stronger, however could be the 52,42 x 13-24 gearing. Cool thing about the first generation 600 SIS and 105 is you can switch it to friction mode easily.
If I only had one bike and it had friction shifting I'm sure I would have it dialed in. But since I enjoy riding all my bikes in grateful for index shifting.
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