hilltowner

I notice that interest has grown for brazing on posts for the retro centerpulls like Mafac and Weinmann and wondered how popular mounting that style of brake had been in the past. Was it just a "constructeur" policy to mount that style of brake on posts or were there general production bikes around that sported the posts as well? Did the brake evolve from being post-mounted to having the bridge and fork crown support them or was it a weight-saving maneuver by some builders to strip down the brakes a bit and mount their pivots on posts?

I'd never seen post-mounted centerpulls until recently so it got me thinking about the evolution of them.

El Chaba

They were always pretty rare and were *almost* exclusively within the domain of constructeur bikes. While there may be a small weight savings, the direct mounting definitely improves the performance. There is quite a bit of flex in the normal mounting stirrup and this flex is effectively removed via direct mounting. It's nothing short of shocking how effective a set of old Mafacs -with modern pads-can be when mounted in this way. they are as effective as any modern caliper brake, IMHO. In addition to the constructeur bikes, the example of brazed -on centerpulls that comes to mind is the Team Peugeot professional bikes from the mid-late 1970's (and their team replicas from the Prestige shop), but these were also essentially constructeur bikes as well....

KonAaron Snake 

I've seen this treatment on Marastoni bikes, and CDM mentioned it wasn't unknown among italian builders. The Marastoni had Universal post mounted center pulls.

I LOVE that approach actually...though it might limit versatility to some extent. If I ever get another custom, I likely will go this route.

bulldog1935

Mafac introduced the CP brake in 1952 - the others followed in the late 50s
Mafac 1
the article doesn't date it, but braze on mounts were offered early
Also a heck of a lot easier to keep braze-ons clean

Found this '75 Rene Herse online:

https://archivalclothing.com/wishful-...e-randonneuse/

ironwood

Some older Centurions, maybe circa 1980, had brazed on CP posts.

KonAaron Snake 

The Centurion Full Pro had them...BEAUTIFUL bikes.

Vintage_Cyclist

That would be the Centurion Pro Tour...and yes they are.

KonAaron Snake 

That's the one...Pro Tour; their model names sound similar. I sent one off to a member here with beautiful wrap around seatstays.

Salamandrine 

Yeah, braze on center pulls were always rarer then hen's teeth, and you were unlikely to see them in real life. That is at least partly why C&V enthusiasts are so intrigued by them. As has been pointed out, they were primarily a feature of Singer, Herse, and other constructeur bikes, which were rare outside of France. Back then, we would have called that a custom french touring bike, not constructeur. BTW. And you could order one and have it delivered to the US. I know Cupertino Bike shop brought them in, as one example.

The main exception as noted was the Centurion Pro Tour, as well as a brief appearance as noted by El Chaba on the custom shop team Peugeot. Pro Tours were awesome bikes for sure.

Speaking of Cupertino Bike Shop, something I did see a lot of were the Spence Wolfe booster plates mounted on standard Mafac centerpulls

bulldog1935

yes, but isn't this to what we all aspire?

KonAaron Snake 

No, at that money there are dozens of bikes I'd rather own. I certainly think Herse bikes are beautiful and interesting, but that's not what most excites me. A weigle, a Chapman, a Vanilla rando styled bike would be more appealing to me personally.

gugie 

If you have a standard bolt on centerpull brake, grab the front and rock the bike fore and aft. You'll see the center piece flex back and forth. It's aluminum and only one bolt through the middle to stiffen it up. If you have a chance to do the same on a brazed on post bike, you'll see a big difference.

The recent mini-resurgence was enabled by large diameter, supple tires. Now you could have your cake (fast riding) and eat it too (comfort). The icing on the cake is using fenders, which allows you to keep yourself and the bike clean and dry in inclement weather, even if the roads aren't great. 42mm wide tires seem to be the sweet spot for speed and handling on anything but soft gravel/dirt. Add fenders with proper clearance (~20mm), and there are no sidepull brakes that will work with that combo. One solution is cantilevers, the knock on them is modulation isn't as good as centerpulls.

That and a polished up set of MAFAC RAID's mounted on frame posts looks really cool.

Salamandrine 

The Mafac Racers on my PX10 definitely move around if I do this. I also tried it with the reissue Gran Compe 610 center pulls on my Mercian. They don't flex at all, at least not perceptibly by eye. Braze ons certainly get the win for good looks though, plus they are easier to clean. (perhaps it's time for me to put on the mudguards)

bulldog1935

except tha's also to what they aspire.

Scarbo

That is a work of art!

gugie 

Interesting that the french word for fenders is Garde-boue (I learned this hanging around eBay France much to much), which translates to mud guards. In the US, the mud guard is the flat at the bottom of the fender, typically extending down close to the ground to keep gunk from building up around the bottom bracket. The one in the back fender is for riding in a group, keeps the person behind you clean.

Another thing I thought of is that cantilevers are brazed on towards the middle of the fork blades. When you apply the front brakes, this tends to twist the blades. Centerpulls bosses are near the fork crown, where the blades are supported, plus they are larger diameter there, so the twisting effect is lessened. I'm not sure if it's very significant, but anything to lessen a spring force in the system would be appreciated.

bulldog1935

Grand Bois builds a pretty nice copy, too


The fender mount is perfection

Scarbo

This is very nice. But that crankset on the Herse is just amazingly incomparable. I am just loving these vintage bikes more and more.

KonAaron Snake 

So long as you think aspire means surpass.

Every builder is influenced by others.

bulldog1935

Of course the Rene Herse cranks are available from Compass, but you can also make a good facsimile with Sun XCD
Chain Rings ? SunXCD - Bicycle Components

isn't ignore list wonderful?

this Toei 650 is sporting them

Scarbo

Beautiful! Are these bikes available in the US?

bulldog1935

Grand Bois ships to US...
CYCLES GRAND BOIS / ****************************************?? - Enjoy
Great source for tires, narrow cassette hubs, Binda toe straps...

Scarbo

Wow--thanks! Yes, I see that they even have 120mm rear hubs!

bulldog1935

...and a 6-sp cassette to go on it

Scarbo

Yes, I saw that!

I just wish my Kanji were better. Actually, it is nonexistent.