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Italian octagonal tubing frame

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Italian octagonal tubing frame

Old 01-05-17, 07:08 PM
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Reynolds 
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Italian octagonal tubing frame

A friend of mine bought this frame a few days ago. It's a Dazzan, made in Italy probably in the '90s for Octavio Dazzan, an Argentinian racer and bike shop owner. The used frame was in the shop backroom, my friend bought it and built it with some Campagnolo parts he had lying around in his own shop (he's an avid cyclist and vintage bike collector). The frame has some interesting features, especially the octagonal main tubes, chainstays (not seatstays) and fork blades. Dropouts are Campagnolo, seatpost is 27.2. The paint is also not common, with some panels resembling marble. A decal says it was painted by Carlo Dossena, a famed bike painter who's still in business. The head tube decal says "Settimo Tse. To Italy".
My friend is very interested about this frame's background. I wasn't able to find information about it elsewhere on the web, so I thought probably someone in this great C&V forum knows about it:





Last edited by Reynolds; 01-05-17 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 01-05-17, 07:14 PM
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Be still, my beating heart.
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Old 01-05-17, 07:20 PM
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Some more pics:


















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Old 01-05-17, 07:26 PM
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I want one.
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Old 01-05-17, 07:38 PM
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This fluted Dacccordi has been on CL for awhile.



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Old 01-05-17, 07:48 PM
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I had one of those formed Daccordi turbo frames, they are just cold formed SL tubes. I think this bike is the same. Still, they are very high on the cool scale. The Daccordis even predate Colnago in formed tubes.

ETA that bb shell is the coolest I have ever seen.

Last edited by wrote4luck; 01-05-17 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 01-05-17, 07:56 PM
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The Daccordi frames are completely different from the op's Dazzan...

I like the fact that the top of the Dazzan's BB is square. Rather cool looking.
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Old 01-05-17, 08:09 PM
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Nice bike. It looks a little like my Colnago Spiral Conic, but that is a pure octagon, and very nicely finished.

Does your friend have one of these? I'm not sure what "size 6" means.

Vintage SMS Santini Dazzan Cycling Jacket Cycliste sz- 6 | eBay


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Old 01-05-17, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
The Daccordi frames are completely different from the op's Dazzan...

I like the fact that the top of the Dazzan's BB is square. Rather cool looking.
I would disagree. They both use formed SL tubes and custom cast lugs. I would bet good money these 2 frame builders got their tubes from the same source in Italy, albeit about 3 years apart. Builders could special order this stuff but it was not cheap. Seat tube/top tube lug is unique to both frames.

Last edited by wrote4luck; 01-05-17 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 01-05-17, 08:48 PM
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No clue on the bike, but that is some hotness right there. The paint job is really insane and I love how the BB lines up perfectly with the tubes, crazy attention to detail.

Is that a dent on the seat post or is it supposed to be like that? If so to what end? Either way, sizzlin.
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Old 01-05-17, 09:11 PM
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As far as gimmicks go, that's a pretty darn cool one Lovely bicycle!

Octagonal tubing, because the O.O.'s name is Octavio, duh.
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Old 01-05-17, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by zze86 View Post
Is that a dent on the seat post or is it supposed to be like that? If so to what end? Either way, sizzlin.
In the 80's and 90's, Campy introduced an Aero seatpost.

VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo C-Record (Aero type, 180mm)
VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo Chorus Aero



It undoubtedly made the bikes faster
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Old 01-05-17, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wrote4luck View Post
I would disagree. They both use formed SL tubes and custom cast lugs. I would bet good money these 2 frame builders got their tubes from the same source in Italy, albeit about 3 years apart. Builders could special order this stuff but it was not cheap. Seat tube/top tube lug is unique to both frames.
Yes I would agree with you there. If they are SL they both probably got their tube sets from Columbus...
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Old 01-06-17, 12:12 AM
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Wow - beautiful bike.

There are similarities with Rossin Prestige frames but these frames have 6 facets. The Rossin frames are made from Tange Prestige tubes.


Last edited by Gary Fountain; 01-06-17 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 01-06-17, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
In the 80's and 90's, Campy introduced an Aero seatpost.

VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo C-Record (Aero type, 180mm)
VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo Chorus Aero



It undoubtedly made the bikes faster
Very cool! Must be like how painting anything red makes it 10x faster.
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Old 01-06-17, 08:51 AM
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Therer's nothing new about frames with polygonal tubes. Caminade of France used octagonal tubing in the late 1930s and they were even more unusual in that they were aluminum and riveted! . Monark of the USA had hexagonal aluminum tubes around the same period. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, Sanki of Japan sold entry level lighweights with hexagonal steel tubing under the Jupiter and University brands.
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Old 01-06-17, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckk View Post
We used to call all the funny shaped Columbus tube bikes "Gilco tubing". I thought they were the post processor of Columbus during the short "It makes them stiffer!" phase.
Were the odd shapes ever produced by Columbus or other makers?

I'm pretty certain that Tommasini did Gilco/Columbus bikes as a saw a bunch at Bil Lewis' warehouse here in Austin around '90.
Based on my research Gilco appears to have been a subsidiary of A.L. Colombo (Columbus). It was established in 1946 by Colombo's son Gilberto to design and manufacture sports cars. Gilco produced tubing designs for Columbus but also hired out to produce proprietary designs for other manufacturers. Columbus' MS (Multi-Shape) tubing is a Gilco design and the tubing decals bear the Gilco's "G" logo and states "Gilco Design". Unfortunately, Gilco has become a generic term to refer to any non-round, cold formed, tubing shapes, much the same as Kleenex and Ski-Doo are used to refer to any facial tissue or snowmobile, even though they are brand names.
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Old 01-06-17, 08:34 PM
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Thanks all! I knew about the Gilco in Colnagos and the Caminargent - in fact my friend has one in his collection. New to me are the Daccordi and Rossin shaped tubes. The Daccordi seat lug looks similar to the Dazzan.
Was there any advantage with polygonal tubes or was it just to be different?
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Old 01-07-17, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
Thanks all! I knew about the Gilco in Colnagos and the Caminargent - in fact my friend has one in his collection. New to me are the Daccordi and Rossin shaped tubes. The Daccordi seat lug looks similar to the Dazzan.
Was there any advantage with polygonal tubes or was it just to be different?
Altering the shape of the tube affects it rigidity. A round tube is equally rigid in all directions (assuming uniform thickness). Ideally, you want a bicycle to be stiffer laterally than vertically, as the lateral stiffness preserves the handling and transfers more power, while decreased vertical stiffness absorbs more road shock and provides a more comfortable ride. Altering the shape allows the designer to selectively increase the stiffness in specific directions, without the need to resort to increased tube thickness, which would increase weight.

Most members are aware that a larger diameter tube is stiffer than a smaller diameter tube. As the diameter increases, so does the stiffness. When you take a round tube and deform it into an oval, it is has a minor and major axis. The major axis is longer than the diameter of the previously round tube and it will be stiffer than the previous round tube, in that direction. The minor axis will be shorter than the old diameter and the oval tube will be less stiff than the round tube in that direction.

Oval tubes, as used on time trial and triathlon bicycles are more stiff vertically than laterally. This is the reverse the ideal situation, but in this case we are looking to make the tubes narrower for the purpose of reduced aerodynamic drag and the relatively steady power output of this type of event will not have as much effect of the lateral rigidity.

In the very late 1980s it became popular to ovalize the bottom bracket ends of the seat and down tubes on ATBs. The major axes were oriented laterally to increase lateral stiffness of the bottom bracket. It was even seen on some road frames, such as the Bianchi Superest II models.

When tubes are polygonal, they will still have a major and minor axes. Basically, they will be stiffer in the directions across the apexes and less stiff in the direction across the flats. Assuming that they were all cold formed from a tube of the same diameter, for any regular polygon (i.e. equal length sides and angles) the differential between the major and minor axes will become less as the number of sides increase. Basically, a octagon would would be less stiff than a hexagon across it apexes but stiffer across the flats, assuming they were both formed from a tube of the same diameter and thickness.

A longitudinal indentation along a tube works like a u-shaped stiffening channel applied to piece of sheet metal, such as a car hood. Indentations along the side of a tube will increase lateral stiffness.

By altering and orientating the shape of a tube, a designer can tailor the stiffness of a frame to more closely approach his vision of an ideal frame. Basically, it increases the flexibility of steel tube design and when used in conjunction with tubes of varying wall thickness and diameter, approaches the design flexibility of carbon fibre monocoques.

Last edited by T-Mar; 01-07-17 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 01-07-17, 07:05 PM
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Thanks T-Mar, great explanation. My '92 KHS has round tubes ovalized at the BB like you say.
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