Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Paramount, vs. other CV bikes in same price range.

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Paramount, vs. other CV bikes in same price range.

Old 01-08-17, 08:34 PM
  #1  
WolfRyder 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
WolfRyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: In my crap Apt.
Posts: 603

Bikes: Not that many, just getting started.

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Paramount, vs. other CV bikes in same price range.

I like the Schwinn Paramount American story and appreciate the craftsmanship of the bikes. I probably need to also learn a little more about what the best years are and production numbers etc. I would like to get a Paramount at some point, but I don't always know what is going to come up for me when on the hunt. Often it is a choice of what presents itself and if sizing will work for me. (I look at CV bikes that don't fit me as value play, if I need the components and/or just a super deal.)

So question is then, what about all these other choices out there for same money as a CV Paramount ? Is the market a little inflated on these, kinda like Bridgestone cult? So far same deal on both these bike brands to me, would like to have a 70's paramount and a RB1, but deal just hasn't been right. We were spoiled with so many other Italian and Japanese, English, American, Euro other bikes that, well, when we are talking $1200 for a Paramount, I'm like what is available with top Italians in that price range? For whatever the case is, I am looking at a Cinelli, Masi, Colnago, De Rosa, Certain Bianchi's, Pogliaghi's, Pinarellos, Merckx, Miyatas etc. The 2nd tier Italians not mentioned are no slouches either. I got a very clean late 70's Rossin Record that I am think is a nice as any Paramount out there. I am not total expert here either and it can be matter of personal preference.

Where do the classic Waterford Paramounts fit into pecking order with other CV bike brands?
__________________
Re: CV bike stuff, I am into it, I like it!

Last edited by WolfRyder; 01-08-17 at 10:29 PM.
WolfRyder is offline  
Old 01-08-17, 08:51 PM
  #2  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 16,911

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1022 Post(s)
Liked 296 Times in 207 Posts
I think most collectors would find many on your list to be more desirable than a Paramount. I think that a Raleigh Professional or International are rough equivalents. Granted, Raleigh quality control had a bit more variability than did Schwinn on the frame brazing.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 01-08-17, 08:52 PM
  #3  
Lascauxcaveman 
Senior Member
 
Lascauxcaveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,897

Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.

Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1577 Post(s)
Liked 465 Times in 273 Posts
Originally Posted by WolfRyder View Post
... Is the market a little inflated on these, kinda like Bridgestone cult?
Yes.

Until you get into the later ones with OS tubing sets and more modern running gear. Those seem to come relatively cheap, most of the time. But since you're talking the classic lugged 531 frames, those later bikes are likely off your radar.

Agree with Zorro on the build quality issue, sometimes the high end Raleighs are poorly made (just like some lower end Raleighs), but the USA Paramounts are uniformly excellent.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Trek 400 ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●

Last edited by Lascauxcaveman; 01-09-17 at 01:03 PM.
Lascauxcaveman is offline  
Old 01-08-17, 09:06 PM
  #4  
Fahrenheit531 
In a Land Without Winter
 
Fahrenheit531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,812

Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 664 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 199 Posts
I could be wrong, but at $1200 you're talking about a pristine and very original Paramount. Maybe that's what you want. But if you're looking for a 70s model in "this bike's for riding!" condition you should be able to find it for well below that number. Patience and/or luck required, probably.

EDIT: On further review, that doesn't even answer your actual question. hahaha

Last edited by Fahrenheit531; 01-08-17 at 09:09 PM.
Fahrenheit531 is offline  
Old 01-08-17, 09:25 PM
  #5  
WolfRyder 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
WolfRyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: In my crap Apt.
Posts: 603

Bikes: Not that many, just getting started.

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
I think that a Raleigh Professional or International are rough equivalents.
That is what I am thinking too. It seems like asking price on the Paramounts is usually a bit higher than the Raleighs. ( Except when you are talking TI Teams)
__________________
Re: CV bike stuff, I am into it, I like it!

Last edited by WolfRyder; 01-08-17 at 09:54 PM.
WolfRyder is offline  
Old 01-08-17, 09:32 PM
  #6  
WolfRyder 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
WolfRyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: In my crap Apt.
Posts: 603

Bikes: Not that many, just getting started.

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by J.Oxley View Post
I could be wrong, but at $1200 you're talking about a pristine and very original
Yeah It seems to me that asking price on the avg decent condition Paramount is a little inflated. A lot of them seem to be in the $1500 +- range. I usually think to myself then, ok forget the Paramount, I'll just try to find a clean Merckx for less.
__________________
Re: CV bike stuff, I am into it, I like it!

Last edited by WolfRyder; 01-08-17 at 09:55 PM.
WolfRyder is offline  
Old 01-08-17, 09:33 PM
  #7  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 16,911

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1022 Post(s)
Liked 296 Times in 207 Posts
Originally Posted by WolfRyder View Post
That is what I am thinking to. It seems like asking price on the Paramounts is usually a bit higher than the Raleighs. ( Except when you are talking TI Teams)
Honestly, I haven't been tracking Paramounts, but just checked eBay. There are some incredibly optimistic folks with sales up now. The completed listings show reality, which is very much in line with what I imagined.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 01-08-17, 09:40 PM
  #8  
thumpism 
Bikes are okay, I guess.
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,534

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Trek 510 city build, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1909 Post(s)
Liked 654 Times in 468 Posts
Depends on what you're looking for, as previously noted. Garage queens cost, riders maybe not so much.

70's Schwinn Paramount Touring Bike

70's Schwinn Paramount Touring Bike - $400 (Mechanicsville)



70's Schwinn Paramount Touring Bike. 56cm Reynolds 531 frame. Campy crank, pedals & rear derailleur but few original parts. Not the original wheels, just a rough useable set. Frame needs a paint job but no dings or dents. Ride it now & maybe restore later.
thumpism is offline  
Old 01-08-17, 10:31 PM
  #9  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 15,486
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1746 Post(s)
Liked 620 Times in 482 Posts
I would probably look for a '72 or earlier Paramount. But for me, Ignoring the ones designed for 27" wheels.
They get a premium, the chrome is hard to kill. Original paint and lug lining ( surrounding the lug on the tube) a desired plus. Original paint obviously a plus.
The production numbers are out there, never committed them to memory. There was a big spike, cannot recall if it was '73 or '74. Some were farmed out, heavens, even brazen by a guy...
I have an International, while they are not too far off from the touring model Schwinn and share Nervex Lugs ( save the Schwinn Prugnaut era frames) I do not think they are equal.
The Schwinn gets more respect- most of the time.

When I was 11 I wanted a Paramount Track bike, like in the catalog, flamboyant red...
$227.... Wish I had the cash saved by then, the price jumped fast.
repechage is offline  
Old 01-08-17, 10:36 PM
  #10  
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,117

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1217 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times in 114 Posts
This question is too broad...

It's which era of those brands we're talking about. Markets attend to themselves...value things how you balance it.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 12:59 AM
  #11  
cdmurphy 
Senior Member
 
cdmurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 567

Bikes: Too many, but sometimes not enough.

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 225 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
WolfRyder,

I don't have any riding experience with classic Paramounts, but from what I've seen online, and a few in person, they're very well made, and nicely finished. Like any bike, I think there is a certain "intrinsic" value -- Tubing used, components fitted, etc. On top of this, there is an "ephemeral" value tacked on. Famous brands, collector interest, or races won will inflate this. Cheap brands may even make this ephemeral value negative.

My impression of the older Paramounts is that physically, they're at least on par with most of the higher end Italian bikes. Depending on the era, their geometry may be a bit more relaxed than concurrent "racing" bikes from the continent. As for the intangibles, everyone seems to like the way they ride. They were pretty much the top American offering (outside of some pretty small builders) at the time, so that adds value in most collectors eyes. I don't get the impression that many hold them as "grail" bikes, but they're always near the top. This probably has a lot to do with America's relative obscurity in international bike racing, at least until the late 1980's. Many collectors want the bike, or at least the brand raced by winners of famous races. American bikes just weren't on the radar in European races at the time.

Basically, as a bike to be ridden -- They're probably just as nice as any of a dozen other well known brands, and probably another couple of dozen lesser known brands. As an investment? They have a bit less cache than some of the European bikes, and more than most of the top end Japanese bikes from the mid-70s onward. (I've got mostly top end Japanese bikes, purely because I'm cheap/poor, and they don't have much collector appeal.)

As a cheap/poor bike enthusiast, I wouldn't pay a huge premium for a classic Paramount, but I would love to stumble across one cheaply. For pure quality to price ratio -- it's hard to beat older Centurion or Univega bikes, especially the top models.
cdmurphy is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 06:10 AM
  #12  
oddjob2
Still learning
 
oddjob2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North of Canada, Adirondacks
Posts: 11,617

Bikes: Still a garage full

Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times in 33 Posts
Patience, diligence, and the ability to act quickly are rewarded in finding below FMV classic vintage bikes. A dose of luck helps too. If you're looking only on ebay, I would say greater than half of the BIN sellers are overly optimistic. Looking at completed transactions, many are repeat listings.

I have no idea how many Chicago Paramounts and Waterford Paramounts were created, but there are a lot of survivors, as their prices were prohibitive in my teen years. That was when VWs were selling new for under $2,000.

IMHO, celeste Bianchis, 1980's and later, carry a hefty premium, given the fact they appear to be widely available anywhere, other than the midwest.

Last edited by oddjob2; 01-09-17 at 06:17 AM.
oddjob2 is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 07:07 AM
  #13  
Barrettscv 
Have bike, will travel
 
Barrettscv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,266

Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 848 Post(s)
Liked 165 Times in 100 Posts
I've owned a Paramount most of my life and it's still my favorite bike made from Reynolds 531. I've had a chance to own and compare the Paramount to other iconic bikes from the same era. I also own and enjoy some of most prestigious bikes from Italy and Belgium. The Paramount still has a wonderful combination of performance, ride quality and artistry that is rare and deserving of merit.

In 1973 and at the age of 15, I graduated from cutting lawns to start my first real job at George Garner Cyclery in Northbrook, IL. George Garner Cyclery was a performance oriented shop with a large volume of racing bikes sold.

I spent 80% of my summer & weekend income on a Road Race Paramount bicycle. Fully lugged, top of the line Reynolds tubing, Full Campagnolo Neovo Record group, wood filled tubular rims.

I had the bike rebuild at the Chicago factory in 1983. It has been lightly used since. I kept the bike for almost 40 years, but sold it in 2010.






Last year I added a 1972 Paramount to my collection. This one is a 24 inch size, and fits perfectly. It's in excellent ready-to-ride mechanical condition.




Compared to the 1971 Peugeot PX10, the Paramount is stiffer and has a slightly more aggressive geometry. Plus Campagnolo is far more durable than Simplex.





The Motobecane Grand Record features Campagnolo and has plenty of tire clearance, it will fit a 700x35. This makes the bike really versatile. But it can't match the pace found in a Paramount.





The Colnago Nuovo Mexico was the top model sold in volume in the United States. It was also the first Colnago to feature crimped tubing. It's lighter and more responsive than the Paramount. It's an advancement over the Paramount but incrementally.




Once you get into the Columbus SLX tubing and indexed shifting found on this 1989 Merckx Corsa Extra you really are in another era and an altogether different league of performance.


__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 01-09-17 at 04:16 PM.
Barrettscv is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 08:09 AM
  #14  
DMC707 
Senior Member
 
DMC707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 4,131

Bikes: Too many to list

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 312 Times in 213 Posts
I like Paramounts a lot. That said, I only own one related example- my 531 Waterford track bike circa '00

Nothing to me evokes the coolness of the old board track era more than a Paramount.


Workmanship is on par with anything I have had from Italy

But people generally talk with their wallets, and to date I haven't felt a compelling urge to add a Paramount to the stable over anything else.
In the grand scheme of things, I guess Paramount compares more favorably to a Biannchi Reparto Corse machine (from the era when that actually meant something) than something a little more boutique, like a Serotta, although there is a pretty nice one in my size on the For Sale boards at what I would consider a reasonable price (I purchased a Colnago instead, so, there ya go)

But: I like machinery from what I would call the C Record era, -- mid 80's to mid 90's. I know some here on the boards don't even consider those to be old bikes. I think in this era, the Paramounts were still a respected name, - and I took notice anytime I saw one show up locally, - even raced a PDG mountain bike for a season in '94-'95

But by then The waters were so muddied with so many other choices - from any number of Italian brands, to domestics like Serotta and Richard Sachs, plus early Merlins and Lite speeds that the brand recognition just was not as high with most people.

Heck, America's team was riding bikes made and named after an old Belgian guy who won some races or something
DMC707 is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 08:12 AM
  #15  
bulldog1935
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Posts: 2,717

Bikes: '74 Raleigh International utility; '98 Moser Forma road; '92 Viner Pro CX upright

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
as far as prices, I think on average you'll see better buys in equivalent quality frames compared to both Schwinn and Raleigh, and especially Paramount.
The simple reason is the name recognition and added demand from collectors.
Certainly would never knock a Paramount or its pedigree, and those are some gorgeous examples are shown above
(and hopefully, we'll see some more)
bulldog1935 is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 08:14 AM
  #16  
St33lWh33ls
Senior Member
 
St33lWh33ls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 388
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
@Barrettscv, nice summary, Thanks!
St33lWh33ls is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 08:18 AM
  #17  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 18,140

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4971 Post(s)
Liked 1,462 Times in 969 Posts
I like buying locally and my market in IA has more than its share of old Treks. I think they are beautiful bikes and by buying locally I pick them up for very reasonable prices.

Still if I were looking for a top end American bike, I'd look at much more than a schwinn paramount. There are plenty of really great custom builders. The late 70s Treks are very fine and all basically hand built and brazed with low temperature silver. I'm in the process of building up a 1978 Trek TX 900.
bikemig is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 08:39 AM
  #18  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,931
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 168 Times in 111 Posts
Originally Posted by WolfRyder View Post
I like the Schwinn Paramount American story and appreciate the craftsmanship of the bikes.
In the early '70's our shop pre-sold every P-mount that Chicago could build for our customers on an extended wait list. Each were built to order machines, some with custom geometry, not production run frames. In terms of build quality a silver brazed P-mount was straight, beautifully finished in your color of choice and fitted out from an option sheet to suit the customer's requirements.
Care for a track, road racing or touring model?
Have it your way.

By contrast my '74 Internat'l was the ugly duckling of a shipment w/ the worst finish, iffy chrome and a need to go on the flat table & fork jig for proper alignment.
Carlton production was idiosyncratic at best w/o a hint of having been exposed to W.E. Deming's QC/QA methodology.

The vaunted Italian production of the era was generally far more labor intensive with BB facing, HT/fork crown milling, thread tapping and flat table/fork alignment before we could get started on a build. The cost of all that labor was added to each and every frameset.

You got what you paid for "back when" and now.
As always, suit yourself.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 08:47 AM
  #19  
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,117

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1217 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times in 114 Posts
I'm sure there are nice Raleigh Internationals out there...but I haven't come across them. I'd pick them as the most over priced of the vintage bike world...and they are not on par with the Paramounts I've seen from the same era.

For an under the radar bike that costs 1/3rd of an Intl. or Paramount...

Motobecane Grand Record. I've heard the tubing sticker lies, and some bits might not be 531 DB...but they're beautiful, well made and have much better QC IME. I also like the parts mix. Not enough data points, but it seems to me that Motobecane had notably better QC than some other boom brands.

Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 01-09-17 at 08:52 AM.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 08:51 AM
  #20  
ScottRyder 
Photographer
 
ScottRyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: The other Cape, Cape Ann
Posts: 3,146
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 46 Posts
I had a '66 Paramount that I sold but kept my '84. I liked the way it rode better that the '66. I have a '72 blue mink Raleigh Professional. I'll never give that up.

Scott
__________________
ClassicFuji.posthaven.com.archive

IG @scottrydercycling
IG @scottryderphoto























ScottRyder is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 09:00 AM
  #21  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,931
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 168 Times in 111 Posts
Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
seems to me that Motobecane had notably better QC than some other boom brands.
I agree, Motobecane QC/QA fit and finish was the best of the Euro brands that we sold back when.

Then came Schwinn's contracting w/ Panasonic to produce the World Voyager in '73.
Hello devotees of Deming and Welcome!

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 09:11 AM
  #22  
El Chaba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 281
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 6 Posts
As an investment that is likely to maintain a solid value, The Schwinn Paramount is near the top of the list. They are not rare, but there is a sizeable cult of support.
El Chaba is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 09:18 AM
  #23  
St33lWh33ls
Senior Member
 
St33lWh33ls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 388
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by WolfRyder View Post
So question is then, what about all these other choices out there for same money as a CV Paramount ?
Thought about this for a minute, even if other bicycles are the same or less money, a better perceived value, they still wouldn't be a Paramount. I'm a big fan of Paramounts and have collected a few, mostly track bikes and one P13-9, but I never considered other bicycles because I knew what I wanted...Paramounts, racy and pre 72 (although I do have a 73). Only you can know whether or not a Paramount floats your boat and a search and investment is worth your effort. There are many bikes by builders of all nationalities I would love to own but it's just not feasible for me and my limited resources so I focused on what I liked the most, Paramounts and ancient track iron from various builders.

So is it worth it to you?
St33lWh33ls is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 09:18 AM
  #24  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 18,140

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4971 Post(s)
Liked 1,462 Times in 969 Posts
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
In the early '70's our shop pre-sold every P-mount that Chicago could build for our customers on an extended wait list. Each were built to order machines, some with custom geometry, not production run frames. In terms of build quality a silver brazed P-mount was straight, beautifully finished in your color of choice and fitted out from an option sheet to suit the customer's requirements.
Care for a track, road racing or touring model?
Have it your way.

By contrast my '74 Internat'l was the ugly duckling of a shipment w/ the worst finish, iffy chrome and a need to go on the flat table & fork jig for proper alignment.
Carlton production was idiosyncratic at best w/o a hint of having been exposed to W.E. Deming's QC/QA methodology.

The vaunted Italian production of the era was generally far more labor intensive with BB facing, HT/fork crown milling, thread tapping and flat table/fork alignment before we could get started on a build. The cost of all that labor was added to each and every frameset.

You got what you paid for "back when" and now.
As always, suit yourself.

-Bandera
I'm curious, how would you rank the early Treks from the late 70s compared to the Euro brands or paramounts?
bikemig is offline  
Old 01-09-17, 09:25 AM
  #25  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,931
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 168 Times in 111 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I'm curious, how would you rank the early Treks from the late 70s compared to the Euro brands or paramounts?
All I can say is: Game changer.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.