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1985 Team Miyata shifting

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1985 Team Miyata shifting

Old 01-09-17, 06:47 AM
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cirp 
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1985 Team Miyata shifting

This topic came up some time ago on another post. There was a difference in opinion in regards to which Dura Ace 7400 shifting system came with the 1985 Team Miyata. Catalog states "new Dura Ace" which could mean either friction or SIS. I'm currently cleaning up and bringing back to original condition my 85' Team and would like to know, since the last thread, if there is a consensus to which system would be appropriate to install for "original condition". I may ride the Eroica and want it to be correct. Thank you for your help.
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Old 01-09-17, 07:28 AM
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Without searching for the contents of the last thread, the catalog suggests DA 7400 with 6 speed Uniglide. Anything close to that is fine. I'll bet you could find both drive-trains on Teams if you look hard enough. Having said that, bikes don't have to be all original to qualify for these rides. Consensus is often difficult to find.

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Old 01-09-17, 07:33 AM
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I agree, I bet you would find both friction and SIS. I'd pick whichever you have or prefer.
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Old 01-09-17, 07:49 AM
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I think an important point to remember is that, regardless of how these came stock, a significant number of team Miyatas were sold frame only...so it isn't inappropriate to use a non-original group, and you do see a lot of these with 600, superbe pro, various campy...

T-mar is one of the guys who really knows his stuff here...so i'd be inclined to agree with what he says. Most I've seen were 7400, but I don't have that many data points either. It wouldn't surprise me if some shops were getting blow out deals on EX during the transition, putting it on frames and selling them as complete bikes. While I can;t tell from the Miyata catalog, Koga Miyata's catalog has 85' full pros coming in two primary configurations...

AX, and 7400. I don't believe Team Miyatas were ever offered AX, so the Koga Miyata counter part...which generally had the same parts...came 7400.
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Old 01-09-17, 07:57 AM
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I have an 85 koga-miyata proracer with SIS if that helps. I realize they're not the same thing.
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Old 01-09-17, 08:20 AM
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I think a non indexing group on a '85 Miyata would have more of a "cool" factor than an early shimano indexing group; YMMV on what's "cool" though!
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Old 01-09-17, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I think a non indexing group on a '85 Miyata would have more of a "cool" factor than an early shimano indexing group; YMMV on what's "cool" though!
Curious why you'd see it that way? EX was not a very impressive group to me, while first gen 7400 would be having the group that brought the biggest change to roadies in 25+ years.

I mean sure, AX didn't really work especially well, but it was INTERESTING. EX is like melba toast.
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Old 01-09-17, 08:27 AM
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I'm not certain if this is still the case, but at one point the Eroica rules specified friction only.
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Old 01-09-17, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Curious why you'd see it that way? EX was not a very impressive group to me, while first gen 7400 would be having the group that brought the biggest change to roadies in 25+ years.

I mean sure, AX didn't really work especially well, but it was INTERESTING. EX is like melba toast.
I agree that indexing was an improvement in many key respects. I set up my second racing bike with indexing but it was a 1991 Team Miyata; my first racing bike was set up with suntour superbe friction.

I think the differences can be overblown though. Friction works well and for a bike in the early to mid 80s, there is something cool in a funky kind of way going with friction. Also with older gear, friction is just more easy going than indexing as a general rule when it comes to parts and parts interchangeability.

Maybe hanging around this place has given me a new respect for friction. It worked so very well for so many years and it makes the job of interchanging parts easier. I'm getting ready to do my first friction racing bike build in a long time; it will be a 1978 Trek TX 900 and the build will be almost entirely French (everything other than the brakes which will be campy long reach).
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Old 01-09-17, 09:35 AM
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I like friction shifting too, but Shimano EX is pretty boring stuff to me. Not saying there's anything wrong with it...but I do think 7400 is a bit cooler because it did change the game.

I think you're talking about friction vs. indexed and I'm thinking more EX vs. 7400 if that makes sense.
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Old 01-09-17, 09:51 AM
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Was there a friction version of 7400?
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Old 01-09-17, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cirp View Post
This topic came up some time ago on another post. There was a difference in opinion in regards to which Dura Ace 7400 shifting system came with the 1985 Team Miyata. Catalog states "new Dura Ace" which could mean either friction or SIS. I'm currently cleaning up and bringing back to original condition my 85' Team and would like to know, since the last thread, if there is a consensus to which system would be appropriate to install for "original condition". I may ride the Eroica and want it to be correct. Thank you for your help.
Wasnt DA 7400 both indexed and friction shifting? You could choose which...see here --->VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano SL-7400, Dura-Ace 7400 (6sp)



Based on the responses so far, doesnt look like there is a consensus. Have the best of both worlds!
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Old 01-09-17, 10:31 AM
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There was no friction only version of the New Dura-Ace shift levers, according to my literature. The SL-7400 were switchable between index and friction mode. Having said that, if you examine the detail pictures in the 1985 Miyata catalog, they are friction only levers, as they do not have the plastic bezel of the index levers. My thoughts are that Miyata had yet to receive a set of the new levers by the deadline for the catalog photo and mock-up levers were used. Actual production that I've seen used the indexed New Dura-Ace lever.
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Old 01-09-17, 10:40 AM
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I'm pretty sure my 7400 levers are index only unless there's some way to take them apart to replace some parts to make them friction.
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Old 01-09-17, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I'm pretty sure my 7400 levers are index only unless there's some way to take them apart to replace some parts to make them friction.
The only dedicated index levers in the 7400 series were the STI (brifters) that came out in 1991. All the down tube levers in the 7400 series, whether 6, 7 or 8 speed, were switchable between index and friction modes simply by turning the D-ring. There was even a switchable Dura-Ace bar end shift lever.
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Old 01-09-17, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The only dedicated index levers in the 7400 series were the STI (brifters) that came out in 1991. All the down tube levers in the 7400 series, whether 6, 7 or 8 speed, were switchable between index and friction modes simply by turning the D-ring. There was even a switchable Dura-Ace bar end shift lever.
Interesting. I didn't know that. I'll have to remember to check that out next summer.
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Old 01-10-17, 12:44 PM
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Thank you all for the input. I know that the early Shimano index shifters had the option of both friction and index shifting because I bought a peugeot triathlon in the late eighties that had the trickle down 105 group with the option of either shifting method.

T-Mar's post makes sense that the production line actually used the friction/index group since most of the pictures I've seen online show the new group and only the catalog picture shows the friction only shifters. Why Miyata did not print "SIS" in the catalog is strange. You think that it would have been a good marketing advantage to let people know they were using the latest and greatest. I guess because they didn't have the picture to match the print they just printed "New Dura Ace".

I have to re-check but, I believe I read that Eroica allows the down tube indexing shifting but not the brifters. Since the down tube indexing came out in 85' and Eroica bikes must be pre 87', you'd think they would allow it.

I will contact them to see what they have to say about it. Thanks again everyone for the input.
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Old 01-10-17, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cirp View Post
I have to re-check but, I believe I read that Eroica allows the down tube indexing shifting but not the brifters. Since the down tube indexing came out in 85' and Eroica bikes must be pre 87', you'd think they would allow it.
I highly doubt they are going to check whether your downtube shifters are indexed or not, regardless of the rules.
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Old 01-10-17, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
I highly doubt they are going to check whether your downtube shifters are indexed or not, regardless of the rules.
I actually contacted them and they said they were familiar with the combo shifters and that they allow them just so you use the friction shifting. They trust the riders.
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