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Raleigh Super Tourer - 1st full rebuild in progress

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Raleigh Super Tourer - 1st full rebuild in progress

Old 01-10-17, 12:51 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
Are these types of derailleurs no longer made?

Perhaps the question I should be asking is: am I getting in over my head here? I'm not a "pull apart and repack your bearings" type of bike mechanic.

Would I be doing the bike a disservice to convert it to a single speed?
A) No, those Jubilee derails have not been made for decades, but were very light and beautifully finished.

2) The OEM grease in all of the bearing surfaces if not overhauled since several times has dried into the consistency of earwax at best. If ridden that way the quality BB, HS and hubs will be quickly and permanently ruined. If you can't clean & re-pack the bearing surfaces yourself find a grey haired mechanic who can. It's worth the $.

III) Conversion to a fixed gear or single speed FW was common on British machines back when, but it takes the legs to get around on that configuration.

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Old 01-10-17, 12:53 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post
Those are no longer made, but they still are good to use.

Learning how to do things on the bike is easy and satisfying.

If it suits you and works for your type of riding, no. It was common to set a regular multispeed bike up during the winter to ride fixed or SS, then change it back. Don't do any permanent cutting or grinding and it will be fine.
Cool. Yeah I neither have the tools nor the knowhow to do any cutting or grinding or frame altering. Plus I don't think I'd want to. I want to keep it as true to original as possible. I was only considering updating the components because of the assumption that they existing ones wouldn't be fully functional (and also for selfish aesthetic reasons)

Originally Posted by dweenk View Post
This link may demystify the derailleur hanger differences from back in the day. Derailleur Hangers Demystified - Red Clover Components

If you can turn a wrench and follow instructions, you should be able to service bicycle bearings. You may need a few inexpensive specialty tools, and want to ask a bike shop to remove the cranks (specialty tool required there).

I would not do a single speed conversion unless I kept all original parts and kept the frame as it now sits (no drewing).
Thanks! I will take a look at that site.
Like I said above, I don't want to modify the frame at all unless it's absolutely necessary to install a modern cassette w/ derailleur.
If I did change it to SS, i would definitely keep all the parts in case I wanted to rebuild it and sell it, or use it that way.

Thanks for help guys - these are probably dumb questions to you but this is my first foray into bikes this old.
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Old 01-10-17, 12:57 PM
  #28  
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There are no dumb questions... we are happy to help!

Former Science teacher myself !
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Old 01-10-17, 02:30 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
For $200 I'd grab it in a second! They were shown in 1974, 75 & 76 Raleigh catalogs. The frame looks similar to the Competition models from those years but slightly different - lugs, braze-ons and so on.

I saw a few of them back in the 1970's. I always liked the green color. Like the Competitions for those years the cosmetic lug work was a little crude.

verktyg

Chas.
Like Chas said. It used the same tubing set as the Competition, the fork is essentially the same. One difference besides the lugs and braze-ons is it uses dented chain stays, so the rear end is less stiff, but makes for more clearance for wider tires. Easily rebuilt with dropped bars, spread the rear triangle to 130mm for a modern drive train, and you've got a nice rider.

The color is chartreuse, btw.
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Old 01-10-17, 02:45 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
Cool. Yeah I neither have the tools nor the knowhow to do any cutting or grinding or frame altering. Plus I don't think I'd want to. I want to keep it as true to original as possible. I was only considering updating the components because of the assumption that they existing ones wouldn't be fully functional (and also for selfish aesthetic reasons)
Please note that you have Huret dropouts. The derailleur hanger's stop is at 4 o'clock, which matches the Huret Jubilee rear derailleur. Any modern derailleur uses a 7 o'clock stop. Changing to a modern derailleur, or even an older vintage Sun Tour, for example, would require either modification to the stop or an adapter. In addition, you'd have to thread the hanger (not a difficulty thing to do), if I remember correctly.

Your best bet, if you want to keep it as original as possible, is to keep the derailleurs that you have. The Huret Jubilee is known as the lightest, and most beautiful (IMO) derailleur ever made.

You're in Houston, so I doubt you need to put lower range gearing on that bike. It would be fairly simple to put a 6 speed freewheel on it, however.

Spend your money on some decent tires and a good saddle, those two things will make a difference. I'm not real keen on the upright bars for that bike, switching to drops would make for a big difference as well, but that's my personal opinion.
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Old 01-10-17, 02:53 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by dweenk View Post
ask a bike shop to remove the cranks (specialty tool required there).
Be careful - those Stronglight cranks use a different remover that even most bike shops won't have. More than one has been known to strip them...
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Old 01-10-17, 03:06 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Be careful - those Stronglight cranks use a different remover that even most bike shops won't have. More than one has been known to strip them...
Yes, this; but not only this: the 23 mm TA crank puller, which is relatively common, seems to fit, so a mechanic may think he's got the thing in hand, when in fact he does not. The Stronglight puller is slightly larger.
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Old 01-10-17, 03:31 PM
  #33  
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I would love to find a green Super Tourer. I hope you have it by now.
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Old 01-10-17, 03:58 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Be careful - those Stronglight cranks use a different remover that even most bike shops won't have. More than one has been known to strip them...
You are so right on that point. If I were the OP, I would spend the $$ and buy the correct tool. Maybe there is a trusting BF member who would lend him a tool for the cost of out and back shipping?
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Old 01-10-17, 04:00 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Please note that you have Huret dropouts. The derailleur hanger's stop is at 4 o'clock, which matches the Huret Jubilee rear derailleur. Any modern derailleur uses a 7 o'clock stop. Changing to a modern derailleur, or even an older vintage Sun Tour, for example, would require either modification to the stop or an adapter. In addition, you'd have to thread the hanger (not a difficulty thing to do), if I remember correctly.

Your best bet, if you want to keep it as original as possible, is to keep the derailleurs that you have. The Huret Jubilee is known as the lightest, and most beautiful (IMO) derailleur ever made.

You're in Houston, so I doubt you need to put lower range gearing on that bike. It would be fairly simple to put a 6 speed freewheel on it, however.

Spend your money on some decent tires and a good saddle, those two things will make a difference. I'm not real keen on the upright bars for that bike, switching to drops would make for a big difference as well, but that's my personal opinion.
The bike already has drop bars on it (see pic in first post).

I'm assuming the suggestions you're making about putting on a new freewheel (3 or 5 speed maybe) would be keeping the original derailleurs, right? What about changing the front to a single chainring and removing that derailleur completely?

Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
I would love to find a green Super Tourer. I hope you have it by now.
Not yet - checking it out after work.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is going to be more trouble that I anticipated. I was looking for older frames to make into a good commute/round towner, like a 1x3 or a 1x5, with modern components on a classic frame - but it seems I've stumbled onto something that makes that much harder. I'd hate to pass on such a highly sought bike but i don't want to end up with something I can't do what I want to or something that takes so much $$ to get where I want it....
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Old 01-10-17, 05:24 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post

I'm beginning to wonder if this is going to be more trouble that I anticipated. I was looking for older frames to make into a good commute/round towner, like a 1x3 or a 1x5, with modern components on a classic frame - but it seems I've stumbled onto something that makes that much harder. I'd hate to pass on such a highly sought bike but i don't want to end up with something I can't do what I want to or something that takes so much $$ to get where I want it....
I think you're overthinking this. It's a bird in the hand. It can do pretty much anything a 1 x 7 can do and modern components won't really make it that much better. If someday you find it doesn't meet your needs, you can sell it for the money you've got into it. I wish I lived closer, I'd ask to to facilitate it for me. If you really want a single front, no probs, buy a nice internal geared hub and run with it. Just save the parts.
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Old 01-10-17, 06:09 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
I'm beginning to wonder if this is going to be more trouble that I anticipated. I was looking for older frames to make into a good commute/round towner, like a 1x3 or a 1x5, with modern components on a classic frame - but it seems I've stumbled onto something that makes that much harder. I'd hate to pass on such a highly sought bike but i don't want to end up with something I can't do what I want to or something that takes so much $$ to get where I want it....
Man, buy it and hang it up in your mancave. Just enjoy looking at it for a while without having to decide what you want to do with it. Everyone should have at least one bike with a Stronglight 93 crank on it. The Super T. is a very unusual bike in this country. I've only seen one in the metal. If it turns out you decide not to proceed, you should be able to resell at a profit, if that appeals to you. Meanwhile, you can bask in the envy of the rest of us, at least those of us who'd fit that frame size.

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Old 01-10-17, 06:19 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Man, buy it and hang it up in your mancave. Just enjoy looking at it for a while without having to decide what you want to do with it. Everyone should have at least one bike with a Stronglight 93 crank on it.

+1. EVERYONE needs a bike with a 93 crank on it, perhaps the coolest crankset ever made. And this has one of those and a Jubilee, the coolest derailleur ever made!


I think this bike needs some new tires, tubes maybe a Broooks, and you're done. No mods please. None are needed. If that bike doesn't work for you, buy something else or flip it. Jubilee RD alone is selling for close to the asking price these days.
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Old 01-10-17, 07:00 PM
  #39  
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Sci guy, I think I just replied to a comment you posted on my Red Clover Components blog, and now having seen a photo of the bike I can do a little better. Since it's currently set up as a five speed, you don't need to mess with the drive train or spindle, although you should repack the bottom bracket, given that the grease is probably 40 years old.

Other than that, I'd just put on a better saddle, clean it up, and ride it.

It would be easy (and cheap) to replace the stem shifters with down-tube shifters if you feel like it. Keep that Jubilee derailleur! Don't make things more complicated that you need to, but as others have probably said it would be well worth replacing the cables and casings, brake pads, and tires, along with repacking the headset, bottom bracket, and wheel bearings. If you're not going to do the work yourself, take it to a shop that knows about old bikes. Have a Taser handy to use on anyone who approaches the crankset with a 23mm crank puller.

Good luck--even though the frame is 4" too small for me, I don't think I'd be able to resist snapping it up at that price.
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Old 01-10-17, 07:05 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
+1. EVERYONE needs a bike with a 93 crank on it, perhaps the coolest crankset ever made. And this has one of those and a Jubilee, the coolest derailleur ever made!


I think this bike needs some new tires, tubes maybe a Broooks, and you're done. No mods please. None are needed. If that bike doesn't work for you, buy something else or flip it. Jubilee RD alone is selling for close to the asking price these days.

Absolutely the coolest crankset ever made.
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Old 01-10-17, 07:53 PM
  #41  
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You guys are great - thanks so much for all your input and info.
I ended up taking it - paid $150.
So turns out it belonged to her sister, and their father owned a bike shop/was a dealer in North Carolina way back in the 70s. Everything on it is factory original, and it has the drop bars because that's what her sister wanted so that's what her dad put on it for her.
If this website is accurate: Raleigh Serial Numbers & Charts
It looks like the bike was made at the Worksop, Nottingham factory, in February of 1974, and was #1417 off the line


Here's the whole thing (pics are crappy because phone in a dankly lit garage in the dark













What is the significance of the Carlton name? It also says it on the seat tube.

It definitely needs a little help but the gears seemed to shift fairly well.
I guess my next question would be: how do I clean it? What do I use to try to clean up the small bits of rust, and grime and make it shiny again? I'll have to take it somewhere to have them clean out the BB and headset and whatnot.
I also wouldn't mind any info on the other parts or if you'd like to see pics of anything else for clarification.
I would love to move the shifters to the downtube - can I use the existing levers from the stem? And if I take them off there do I need to replace the stem because there will be some weird things left behind?

What size stem would I need to replace with, etc?
Doesn't look like I could replace the rear derailleur anyway because it's part of the frame. Do I just need to keep this one lubed and tuned and it'll last forever?

I'm also curious why y'all love the crankset - IMO it's bulky and I'd prefer something more modern and slimline BUT I am willing to be swayed to leave it - especially given the difficulty in possibly replacing it anyway. Do you like the way it looks, or is it more mechanical love?
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Old 01-10-17, 08:19 PM
  #42  
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Oh also is it still possible to find 27" tires because these are shot. The wheels look ok I think but I'll take a better look later in the daylight.
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Old 01-10-17, 08:53 PM
  #43  
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Take off the kickstand and punt it into the neighbours garbage bin.

Now you've got it, make a decision to go all in and learn to do it yourself or find a qualified shop with a veteran mechanic. You'll still need the mechanic even if you do most of the work yourself. As mentioned, as a test, ask him what special tool he'd need to remove the crankset. It's a 23.35 puller, NOT a 23.0 puller, although later Stonglight cranks did conform to that standard. If he doesn't know these facts, walk out to next shop. If he does know, slowly establish a relationship over time with him or her. Don't be a pest with a gazilion questions. They will come later

Running vintage bikes is inexpensive if you do the work yourself. Bikeshops charge $50 and hour an up no matter what they work on so an investment in tools is worthwhile. However, you've got to do the online homework. Start with Sheldon Brown and he'll tell your all about Raleighs proprietary thread pitch and Huret deraillers (his spelling).
Carlton was a prestigious marque bought by Raleigh and Worksop was where most of the very good consumer bikes were built.

The crankset is iconic. Think Citroen DS, Châteaux Lafite, Tour de France, Panama Canal (strike that one). French and unique, like lots of their stuff.

Oh yes, you're Bill Nye the sci guy so get on it. If you've got a little post xmas money, shop around for the Park AK-2 Advanced Mechanics tools. Should be around $300. Get you started.

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Old 01-10-17, 09:03 PM
  #44  
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Finding an enthusiast in your area who'd do a once over with you would be a huge help.
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Old 01-10-17, 09:06 PM
  #45  
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The Stronglight 93 crankset has a spider in the form of a 5 pointed star. It's un-american not to like 5 point stars, even if they are french... You have the somewhat rare version with the chainguard, which admittedly does make it seem a little bulky. Once you shine it up it will look sleeker. Here is the stock version:


I agree with clubman, quiz any shop you take it to on the difference between 23.0 and 23.35 french crank pullers. If they don't know what you mean, find another shop. These were fairly common once, and old bike shops will likely still have a VAR or Stronglight puller for them still sitting around.

AFA shining it up, search this site for many threads on the subject. I generally start with a degreaser such as turpentine, thinner or simple green to get the grease and crud off. Then polish by hand with a paste metal polish like simichrome. Those parts aren't anodized and will take a mirror polish if you give them enough elbow grease.
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Old 01-10-17, 09:11 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
It definitely needs a little help but the gears seemed to shift fairly well.
I guess my next question would be: how do I clean it? What do I use to try to clean up the small bits of rust, and grime and make it shiny again? I'll have to take it somewhere to have them clean out the BB and headset and whatnot.
For me, is usually clean old bikes like this with dish soap and hot water, or simple green if I have it around, it does a better job removing grease and grime. once that's gone, I wash thge frame again with some good car soap. Rust can be dealt with by using some wadded up aluminum foil. I use Mother's mag polish for any alloy parts, once everythings cleaned, I wax the frame and all the alloy components to protect them (especially rust spots on the frame)

I also wouldn't mind any info on the other parts or if you'd like to see pics of anything else for clarification.
I would love to move the shifters to the downtube - can I use the existing levers from the stem? And if I take them off there do I need to replace the stem because there will be some weird things left behind?
Yes, you can. If you search 'Huret downtube clamp" on ebay, you can find clamps for the shifters, just take them off the stem mount, problem solved. kI did this with the stem shifters on mine.You don't need to replace the stem, the shifter clamp on the stem currently can just be removed.

What size stem would I need to replace with, etc?
Doesn't look like I could replace the rear derailleur anyway because it's part of the frame. Do I just need to keep this one lubed and tuned and it'll last forever?
It can removed, it attatches with an allen key to the rear dropout. It'll shift MUCH better and a lotmore crisply after being cleaned, lubed, and given new cables. Modern shift housing works 10x better than what's on there now

I'm also curious why y'all love the crankset - IMO it's bulky and I'd prefer something more modern and slimline BUT I am willing to be swayed to leave it - especially given the difficulty in possibly replacing it anyway. Do you like the way it looks, or is it more mechanical love?
For one, it has a chainguard on it that IMO looks pretty ugly. I removed mine, They polish up to an almost chrome like mirror polish. I know it all seems like a lot of work and trouble, but it's totally worth it! Here's mine as i bought it two years ago:



And as it looked after I worked on it:



Closeup of the crankset with the guard removed:


I did make some changes, turned the rear into a 7 speed, changed out the original brakes and levers for CLB, It has Panracer pasella 32mm tires. Since these were taken, it also has lever hoods, pedal cages & straps, bottle cages, and fenders.
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Old 01-10-17, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
...
What is the significance of the Carlton name? It also says it on the seat tube.
...
Carlton was a bike manufacturer that Raleigh bought in the early 1960's to gain expertise and additional manufacturing capacity and credibility in building lightweights. They did have some experience with Raleigh Record Aces and Lentons, but Carlton was a jewel of sorts. After buying Carlton, it took a few years to merge operations, but once it was completed, most Raleigh's built of 531 tubing were made at the former Carlton facility. The emblem and brake hoods found their way onto most of the more desirable Raleigh models.

Side history - Carlton did continue to produce bikes under their own badge well into the 70's, even while Raleigh cranked out boatloads of their cycles in the same factory.
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Old 01-10-17, 09:14 PM
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Another thought keep the original ribbed housing and just replace cables. They clean up like new and last a very long time. It's only original once.
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Old 01-10-17, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Finding an enthusiast in your area who'd do a once over with you would be a huge help.
Absolutely. I think we have a couple here (bikedued, is one I believe) and there's a fellow on Classic Rendezvous who is in Houston.
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Old 01-10-17, 09:16 PM
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There are a couple or more Forum members in Houston who may be happy to guide you to do the work yourself, or who could loan tools. Do a search. I think there's a bike co-op there too. When I got back into working on old bikes, the local Baltimore co-op was invaluable in expertise and tools.
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