Suppose You C&V Geeks Were To Do A Full Custom Build
01-24-17, 04:35 PM
#26
Senior Member
Id hang out with Dario Pegoretti, have him build me a custom tailored frame. Let him go absolutely wild with the paint. Then a full Super Record build.
01-24-17, 04:36 PM
#27
Decrepit Member
Ahh, another opportunity to show off. 
Dave Wages (Ellis Cycles) built the frame while he was at Waterford. The fork blades are chrome plated 531 (Reynolds wasn't producing 953 fork blades when the bike was built in 2007).
Dave Wages (Ellis Cycles) built the frame while he was at Waterford. The fork blades are chrome plated 531 (Reynolds wasn't producing 953 fork blades when the bike was built in 2007).
01-24-17, 05:22 PM
#29
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I don't need anything crazy. Did this one on Mercian's online builder, an 853 King of Mercia. Maybe I'll get it one of these days.
01-24-17, 05:51 PM
#30
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I saw some Chapman stuff a few years back and I was worried about drooling in his booth; even Mr. Weigle was staring. Whoever does his paint...
01-24-17, 06:27 PM
#31
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Around the year 2000, I was using a single bike for commuting, doing supported tours, and traveling via airplanes. The bike that I was riding was not well suited for this duty, so I started a search for someone who would build a frame of this type.
I did consider Waterford, and would probably have been happy with it. However, I was in contact with a couple of small semi-local builders that gave me a better price and the chance to get some tweaky details that I was considering.
If you are thinking about getting a custom frame, it's good to understand what an off-the-rack frame can offer, and why you are looking for something custom. For me, it was a lot of braze-ons (for racks, fenders, wire guides for lights), S&S couplers, stainless dropouts, etc.
Little details such as... what pump will you use, what headset, tire size, fenders or not, should be discussed. This is a lot easier with a small builder that you can meet and chat with, and can drop an e-mail to at any time.
oh... and the selection of the color.. if you are lucky(?), the builder will show you some sample frame tubes painted in a handful of colors and say "which color do you want?" Otherwise, you'll be like me and spend too much time at auto paint shops looking through their books of paint colors.
I'm happy with how the bike turned out, though.
a few photos of the frame in progress....
and a shot of the complete bike, roughly 17 years later (and about 35,000 miles)
Steve in Peoria
I did consider Waterford, and would probably have been happy with it. However, I was in contact with a couple of small semi-local builders that gave me a better price and the chance to get some tweaky details that I was considering.
If you are thinking about getting a custom frame, it's good to understand what an off-the-rack frame can offer, and why you are looking for something custom. For me, it was a lot of braze-ons (for racks, fenders, wire guides for lights), S&S couplers, stainless dropouts, etc.
Little details such as... what pump will you use, what headset, tire size, fenders or not, should be discussed. This is a lot easier with a small builder that you can meet and chat with, and can drop an e-mail to at any time.
oh... and the selection of the color.. if you are lucky(?), the builder will show you some sample frame tubes painted in a handful of colors and say "which color do you want?" Otherwise, you'll be like me and spend too much time at auto paint shops looking through their books of paint colors.
I'm happy with how the bike turned out, though.
a few photos of the frame in progress....
and a shot of the complete bike, roughly 17 years later (and about 35,000 miles)
Steve in Peoria
01-24-17, 07:24 PM
#32
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Eight or nine years ago, half the thread would have been Rivendells. 
Hard choice, and I can't say whether I would get a Weigle, an Ellis, a Winter, or a Bob Jackson custom frame. Thinking I'd want a frame geometry similar to what Steelbikeguy just posted, made of 853, with integrated racks, state of the art LED lighting, dynohub, V.O. fenders and randonneur bars anodized copper-tone. Red and gold chromovelato finish with the most durable clear-coat available over the top of the paint. Copper-toned anodized Croce d'aune everything (2 x 7) except the shifters - which would be Sun Tour indexed, but with custom designed levers, copper-tone anodized Velocity dyad rims, with Compass Stampede Pass tires. Elkhide bar wrap to match the honey Brooks B-17 Champion with copper rails.
Hard choice, and I can't say whether I would get a Weigle, an Ellis, a Winter, or a Bob Jackson custom frame. Thinking I'd want a frame geometry similar to what Steelbikeguy just posted, made of 853, with integrated racks, state of the art LED lighting, dynohub, V.O. fenders and randonneur bars anodized copper-tone. Red and gold chromovelato finish with the most durable clear-coat available over the top of the paint. Copper-toned anodized Croce d'aune everything (2 x 7) except the shifters - which would be Sun Tour indexed, but with custom designed levers, copper-tone anodized Velocity dyad rims, with Compass Stampede Pass tires. Elkhide bar wrap to match the honey Brooks B-17 Champion with copper rails.
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01-24-17, 07:34 PM
#33
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If I were to order a new road "only" bike, I'd order a Della Santa.
At the prices he charges, it checks all the boxes.
Build it up with Chorus and a decent wheelset and I'd be set.
But I already have a few bikes just like that, so I wouldn't go in that direction.
In fact, the Dave Kirk built Serotta CSI I have is a better handling bike than most of the road bikes I have owned over the years.
A very pretty frameset as well. imho
At this point, if I were going to have a steel all road built I would keep it local.
Definitely a call to Dave Anderson or Joel G. at Clockwork would take care of the matter.
A build with 6800 or Chorus would be fun, along with clearances for loads of tire plus a few key brazeons.
If I were to go ti, I'd stop at the Moots dealer by my house and order up a Routt 45.
Again, a build with 6800 or Chorus would be all I need.
I'd put a fair chunk of change into the wheelset with an eye towards durability.
I'd think about lighting and soft bags without the need for multi racks.
Travel light.
At the prices he charges, it checks all the boxes.
Build it up with Chorus and a decent wheelset and I'd be set.
But I already have a few bikes just like that, so I wouldn't go in that direction.
In fact, the Dave Kirk built Serotta CSI I have is a better handling bike than most of the road bikes I have owned over the years.
A very pretty frameset as well. imho
At this point, if I were going to have a steel all road built I would keep it local.
Definitely a call to Dave Anderson or Joel G. at Clockwork would take care of the matter.
A build with 6800 or Chorus would be fun, along with clearances for loads of tire plus a few key brazeons.
If I were to go ti, I'd stop at the Moots dealer by my house and order up a Routt 45.
Again, a build with 6800 or Chorus would be all I need.
I'd put a fair chunk of change into the wheelset with an eye towards durability.
I'd think about lighting and soft bags without the need for multi racks.
Travel light.
01-24-17, 07:36 PM
#34
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Eight or nine years ago, half the thread would have been Rivendells.
Hard choice, and I can't say whether I would get a Weigle, an Ellis, a Winter, or a Bob Jackson custom frame. Thinking I'd want a frame geometry similar to what Steelbikeguy just posted, made of 853, with integrated racks, state of the art LED lighting, dynohub, V.O. fenders and randonneur bars anodized copper-tone. Red and gold chromovelato finish with the most durable clear-coat available over the top of the paint. Copper-toned anodized Croce d'aune everything (2 x 7) except the shifters - which would be Sun Tour indexed, but with custom designed levers, copper-tone anodized Velocity dyad rims, with Compass Stampede Pass tires. Elkhide bar wrap to match the honey Brooks B-17 Champion with copper rails.
Hard choice, and I can't say whether I would get a Weigle, an Ellis, a Winter, or a Bob Jackson custom frame. Thinking I'd want a frame geometry similar to what Steelbikeguy just posted, made of 853, with integrated racks, state of the art LED lighting, dynohub, V.O. fenders and randonneur bars anodized copper-tone. Red and gold chromovelato finish with the most durable clear-coat available over the top of the paint. Copper-toned anodized Croce d'aune everything (2 x 7) except the shifters - which would be Sun Tour indexed, but with custom designed levers, copper-tone anodized Velocity dyad rims, with Compass Stampede Pass tires. Elkhide bar wrap to match the honey Brooks B-17 Champion with copper rails.
Nice to see Winter mentioned.
The Eric E. rebuilt CSI frameset I have is a freak of nature and his recent output nails me to a wall.
Simply gorgeous.
01-24-17, 07:38 PM
#35
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Well, apologies to the classic nuts, but it would be a:
Wraith Hustle,
Whiskey fork,
custom paint in navy blue metallic,
gold decals,
red head badge.
FSA Orbit CF-40 headset,
Stronglight Helion carbon crankset,
KCNC CB-7 calipers,
KCNC 3-piece cassette,
KCNC spacers, crank bolts, and #5 allen key QR's.
Prologo Scratch Pro saddle in white,
Fizik white wrap,
red Jagwire housing/cable kit.
Thomson seat post in black,
Zipp black on black stem with S/S SLC-2 bars.
Campy Record 10-sp shifters, FD, RD,
Campy Bullet wheels with Veloflex skins.
Red carbon cage (1) by Chairman Mao,
Look Keo2Max Carbon/Ti pedals with the Ti spindles.
U-clip tail light over a red Topeak bag.
Hard to argue with a sub-16 lb steel bike.
Wraith Hustle,
Whiskey fork,
custom paint in navy blue metallic,
gold decals,
red head badge.
FSA Orbit CF-40 headset,
Stronglight Helion carbon crankset,
KCNC CB-7 calipers,
KCNC 3-piece cassette,
KCNC spacers, crank bolts, and #5 allen key QR's.
Prologo Scratch Pro saddle in white,
Fizik white wrap,
red Jagwire housing/cable kit.
Thomson seat post in black,
Zipp black on black stem with S/S SLC-2 bars.
Campy Record 10-sp shifters, FD, RD,
Campy Bullet wheels with Veloflex skins.
Red carbon cage (1) by Chairman Mao,
Look Keo2Max Carbon/Ti pedals with the Ti spindles.
U-clip tail light over a red Topeak bag.
Hard to argue with a sub-16 lb steel bike.
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01-24-17, 08:07 PM
#36
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I'm in the queue with Jeff Lyon for a fast bike that fits 650b x 42 tires.
01-24-17, 08:17 PM
#37
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Wow, nice road map for a super bike.
I'll keep this handy for my son.
He's all legs.
I'll keep this handy for my son.
He's all legs.
Well, apologies to the classic nuts, but it would be a:
Wraith Hustle,
Whiskey fork,
custom paint in navy blue metallic,
gold decals,
red head badge.
FSA Orbit CF-40 headset,
Stronglight Helion carbon crankset,
KCNC CB-7 calipers,
KCNC 3-piece cassette,
KCNC spacers, crank bolts, and #5 allen key QR's.
Prologo Scratch Pro saddle in white,
Fizik white wrap,
red Jagwire housing/cable kit.
Thomson seat post in black,
Zipp black on black stem with S/S SLC-2 bars.
Campy Record 10-sp shifters, FD, RD,
Campy Bullet wheels with Veloflex skins.
Red carbon cage (1) by Chairman Mao,
Look Keo2Max Carbon/Ti pedals with the Ti spindles.
U-clip tail light over a red Topeak bag.
Hard to argue with a sub-16 lb steel bike.
Wraith Hustle,
Whiskey fork,
custom paint in navy blue metallic,
gold decals,
red head badge.
FSA Orbit CF-40 headset,
Stronglight Helion carbon crankset,
KCNC CB-7 calipers,
KCNC 3-piece cassette,
KCNC spacers, crank bolts, and #5 allen key QR's.
Prologo Scratch Pro saddle in white,
Fizik white wrap,
red Jagwire housing/cable kit.
Thomson seat post in black,
Zipp black on black stem with S/S SLC-2 bars.
Campy Record 10-sp shifters, FD, RD,
Campy Bullet wheels with Veloflex skins.
Red carbon cage (1) by Chairman Mao,
Look Keo2Max Carbon/Ti pedals with the Ti spindles.
U-clip tail light over a red Topeak bag.
Hard to argue with a sub-16 lb steel bike.
01-24-17, 09:41 PM
#38
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I would either ask a local builder, Jeffrey Bock, to build it or build it myself in one of his multi-session frame building classes.
Not a famous builder by any means, but ive seen a few of his bikes in person, from the 70s, 80s, and 90s- and they are all exceptionally consistent and wonderfully simple.
Whatever tubing he wanted to use would be fine with me.
Bock does repaints, and is really good, so a light baby blue paint to show off the thinned lug lines would be fantastic.
Itd be a comfort geometry road frame that could take up to 32s with fenders.
A Pacenti Paris Brest Paris fork crown for sure!
NOS 6600 silver groupset with a Sugino Alpina 2 compact double crank and an 11-30 cassette.
Pair the 32H 6600 hubs to some H Plus Son TB14 hard ano gray rims with butted spokes.
Ritchey Classic silver stem and seatpost.
Soma Hwy1 bars.
Brooks C17 saddle.
Clement Strada LGG 120tpi 28mm tires.
XLC gel tape because though its XLC, its great.
Yeah, thatd be some fun times.
Not a famous builder by any means, but ive seen a few of his bikes in person, from the 70s, 80s, and 90s- and they are all exceptionally consistent and wonderfully simple.
Whatever tubing he wanted to use would be fine with me.
Bock does repaints, and is really good, so a light baby blue paint to show off the thinned lug lines would be fantastic.
Itd be a comfort geometry road frame that could take up to 32s with fenders.
A Pacenti Paris Brest Paris fork crown for sure!
NOS 6600 silver groupset with a Sugino Alpina 2 compact double crank and an 11-30 cassette.
Pair the 32H 6600 hubs to some H Plus Son TB14 hard ano gray rims with butted spokes.
Ritchey Classic silver stem and seatpost.
Soma Hwy1 bars.
Brooks C17 saddle.
Clement Strada LGG 120tpi 28mm tires.
XLC gel tape because though its XLC, its great.
Yeah, thatd be some fun times.
01-25-17, 02:54 AM
#39
Senior Member
Interesting that 953 gets the vote not Spirit and the other high end Columbus equivalents.
01-25-17, 05:53 PM
#42
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The Wraith rides on rails and would be an awesome crit or club night bike. Light yet stiff, but didn't seem punishing. So tight of a ride that I immediately noticed the strength/flex of the wheelset.
Sort of the opposite end of the steel roadie spectrum from my stainless custom that is the poster child of a comfy yet responsive century bike that eats up longer pacing climbs.
Sort of the opposite end of the steel roadie spectrum from my stainless custom that is the poster child of a comfy yet responsive century bike that eats up longer pacing climbs.
01-25-17, 07:45 PM
#44
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01-25-17, 08:16 PM
#45
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I did this a while back. I began researching around 1998 and Richard Sachs stayed at the top of my list until I got in his queue in 2006. My dream bike would have had 10 speed silver Record which was available in 2006. When the frame arrived in 2011, Record was black, carbon, and 11 speed. I went 7900 after test riding Campy 11 but it was a hassle like all modern groups. It now has 7700 and a Threadless Winter stem. In 2005, 25th Aniversary 7700 were going for $1500. If I change anything on my dream bike, it will be a splurge on one of those sets. ( Not $1500 anymore
)
)
01-25-17, 09:08 PM
#46
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More here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/546162...57637324498915
He's working on a lightweight steel race frame for me now, that will be a fully modern build.
01-26-17, 04:19 PM
#47
Decrepit Member
The downsides are its expense and it is very hard on tooling.
This Rob English race bike with a fillet brazed 953 frame weighs 10 pounds as shown.
Last edited by Scooper; 01-26-17 at 04:29 PM.
01-26-17, 04:27 PM
#48
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Where is @jyl (the original poster)?
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01-26-17, 07:07 PM
#50
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One of the reasons I haven't seriously considered a custom build is that I'm almost certain I'd screw it up in the planning phase. A good builder could probably nudge me in the right directions where some of the things I thought I wanted were just wrong and suggesting things that I hadn't thought about, but I still think there would be a very high probability that there would be things I wished were different after a few years.
One of the reasons I buy so many bikes is that I'm trying to figure out all of the combinations of materials and geometry and such to better understand what I really want (which is likely a moving target anyway). I'm not sure I'll have enough years of health left by the time I work it out to make a custom bike worthwhile.
There are, of course, some things that would be on my wish list.
-Comfortable
-Light
-Responsive
-Chrome lugs and socks (fork and stays)
-Clearance for wide tires (some days I think 32 would be enough, other days I think I'd want 60)
-Hydraulic disc brakes
-Support for racks and fenders
Essentially I think I want a bike that looks and handles like an Italian race bike but has the fit and utility of a touring bike. Is that too much to ask?
One of the reasons I buy so many bikes is that I'm trying to figure out all of the combinations of materials and geometry and such to better understand what I really want (which is likely a moving target anyway). I'm not sure I'll have enough years of health left by the time I work it out to make a custom bike worthwhile.
There are, of course, some things that would be on my wish list.
-Comfortable
-Light
-Responsive
-Chrome lugs and socks (fork and stays)
-Clearance for wide tires (some days I think 32 would be enough, other days I think I'd want 60)
-Hydraulic disc brakes
-Support for racks and fenders
Essentially I think I want a bike that looks and handles like an Italian race bike but has the fit and utility of a touring bike. Is that too much to ask?
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