Looking to go Prewar: Help educate me on the basics?
 

Until now, I've mainly kept my riding and collecting to 1970s+ midrange road bikes (touring bikes and the like).

For a variety of reasons, I am now wanting to try my hand (and pedaling) with a prewar (ideally European) bike. I've seen a bunch of cool models out there-- brennabor, etc... and if I had my wishes (for personal reasons) ideally I'd find something from 20s-early 30s.

But, and here's the big but... I am total newbie with this area and wondering if anyone can share-- or can guide me to a place where I can educate myself-- info on what to look for, info on where to even look to find one (aside from the auction site), and particularly price expectations on what to pay, etc... for this kind of bike? Not looking for a show-piece, so ragged rider is totally fine as long as I can find the knowledge base to get it rolling again too.

I know this is a big general set of questions, but as I learned quickly with road bikes... you don't know what you need to know until you understand what you don't know! And right now... I don't know much!

Thanks for any help guidance and wisdom!

Sign me up; I'd like to own a prewar bike a well.

You should probably narrow your search a bit. Are you thinking of a bike for transportation, or for racing?

You should probably also pick a country of interest. An English bike of that period was typically made entirely in England. Every component would say "British Made" on it. The same is true of most countries. So the national character of many of these bikes is pretty pronounced. English bikes will often have internally geared hubs by Sturmey Archer, while French bikes will have derailleurs.

Look at everything. Look at completed sales on eBay but pay no attention to eBay prices of things that did not sell. To get a good deal you have to know a good deal when you see one, which means you have to know more than the seller. If the seller knows more than you do, you are at his mercy.

The CABE is a great place to see, learn and buy stuff. By the way TOC stands for turn of the century, took me a while to get that as I think Topic of Conversation. The Classic and Antique Bicycle Exchange


If there is one bike I would want, it would be a mid/late 30's CCM Flyte but they are expensive and tough to find. More of a unique cruiser type.

Classic Rendezvous has a wealth of information:

Lightweight Classic Vintage bicycles

-Bandera

Good advice above, in particular [MENTION=73614]rhm[/MENTION] who suggested you start with a country.

I'm doing the same and I've been collecting parts a 1930's Bates BAR for about four years now.

My advice is to look at the Brown Brother's Cycle Catalogue from the era:
Veteran-Cycle Club Online Library

... and then see which parts are available on eBay. If you want it to be period-correct then this may get expensive and/or time-consuming.

For example I needed a decent pre-war brake set. Bowden calipers were among the best, here they are in the 1938 Brown Brother's Catalogue:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4...pskbr8j16k.jpg

Eventually I found a set in good condition for their age:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4...psl8lsiivv.jpg

... and even some 1930's stripy brake blocks:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4...psac9mznxa.jpg

Most of the parts are now collected but it's taken me years to do this.

Alternatively, complete pre-war bikes turn up on eBay or with dealers. Hilary Stone has sold a few nice examples: Hilary Stone ? Bikes 1

An amazing Chater Lea bike from the early 1930's turned up on eBay a few months back: chater lea old vintage bike bicycle velo ancienne bici bicicletta epoca oldtimer | eBay
(I'm not sure what it was doing in Italy).

All good advidce. Thank you! I will start reading through the links.

For personal reasons, I am liking (dreaming) about some of the German 20-30s bikes I've seen with rear racks for loaded riding. Not at all racer style. More utilitarian. They all seem to lack any sort of gearing (derailleur or SA hub) or even complex brakes. Saw one on an auction site restored for 4-figure money, but half the fun for me is brining one back on the road.

Ok, off for more reading now for me! But all advice still welcomed!

This will be a nice interesting project. Quite something to own a piece of history that saw so much of this centuries turmoil.

A good thing to watch is eBay sales of rusty old bikes, local pick up only. I have seen many amazing deals that were too far away, and have caught one that wasn't. In such a case, it's great if you can snag a complete bike like what you want, even if it is not your size.

German bikes of that era have not made it to North America in large numbers, but can be found in Germany.

Prewar bikes are easier to be found in their country of origin. Want a German bike, go to ebay.de. Unusual choice, but if it floats your boat, I say go for it.

The best way to know what you want is to educate yourself. My personal choice is prewar Italian road bikes, although I do like the city bikes too. In learning about them, I would track certain searches on ebay.it. I found Italian blogs on vintage bikes. On ebay.it I would purchase Italian periodicals and catalogs from the time. I could get those at $10, $20 each. The advertisements are probably what gave me the most education. And it can be done cheap to start.

When you go to buy, there are other choices than ebay, at least in the Italian market. You will become creative in searching the web. Prewar stuff is obviously more rare so you will have to be patient. I looked 4 years before spending too much on a 1933 Frejus.

As a rule of thumb, prewar French stuff is the easiest to find. American and British would be next. Italian is a tough nut to crack. I can't say for German bikes, but my bet it won't be that easy. Good luck!

I recommend getting a complete bike. Finding parts can be difficult & add up real fast $$$.

How about pre-WWI, with a safety cycle or an ordinary? :) (I am solidly post-WWII, myself, although I do like the old Sturmey-Archer top tube mounted quadrant shifters.)

I actually have two 1930s Raleighs. One is a Sports, which came to me as a frame/fork/headset; the other is a complete bike but a bit of an oddity in that the frame was made for rod brakes but was fitted with Phillips calipers at some point pre-war. Otherwise, it's a bit of a mix of parts, some likely original (the rear wheel with a Raleigh stamped flip/flop hub), some not (front wheel, bars, and stem).

I'd actually be willing to sell either or both. PM me if interested.

NO CONNECTION but this seller from Palestrina, Italy had quite a selection of early racers, various price levels, condition, etc.. Might want to contact and see whats available but not listed. Near Rome... take in some sightseeing while on some fine rusty steed!

Sample:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xaAAAO...wP/s-l1600.jpg

I agree in General, but a lot of pre war bikes went to Germany during the war, so ebay.de will probably offer a lot more. German pre war bikes are extremely rare here in the Netherlands, and I know hardly anything about them.

I know a little bit about Dutch pre war bikes, but I've only owned two and one was very likely pre war and the other could have been post war just as well. War was not what made the difference in bikes, after the war demand was high and they just made the same pre war models in big numbers, allthough a few brands had to make their own IGHs and coaster brakes because the English didn't have that much steel left and Fichtel&Sachs wasn't as popular as before the war. The difference was the Wall Street Crash. Almost all Dutch bikes pre 70's were very durable and sturdy, but the oldtimer snobs want pre 29's because the manufacteres started to cut corners and produce cheaper bikes in the wake of that crisis. Maybe something simular happened in other countries.

Lot's of pre war bikes aren't collectible here because age alone doesn't make them special, a rolling bike that needs TLC could be bought for less than 50 euros. A SA3 roadster with rod brakes will be considerably more expensive, but will still be quite cheap if it doesn't stand out as the old bike it is. It's the obviously old lights, black muffled rims, weathered chain and coat guards, fender ornaments, that add value because those will show it's from the 30's or 20's. And it's with the rare typically pre war frame shapes that it gets expensive, priest bikes, double top tube and heavy front rack transport bikes, cross frames, those will start at around 500 for one in good condition. With rare brands and technical oddities like a mutaped cranck case gear it's the same. Really special ones like the Simplex floating bike are in the 1500-2000 euro area for a decent one.