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-   -   Unknown bike (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1104464-unknown-bike.html)

cirp 04-14-17 07:47 PM

Unknown bike
 
Picked this bike up about 15 years ago and just started working on other project bikes. Ready to start on this one but do not have any idea what it is. It was made in Italy and looks to be circa 60s. Has a "World Champion" decal on the down tube and a partial decal of a wheel on the seat tube. Frame itself, is in pretty good shape with no dents. The paint is trashed and so are most of the decals. I forgot to take a picture of the serial number which was on the seat tube lug. The top tube decal, which is gone but you can still see what it said, says "la campagnolo".
The link below has the pictures on Google drive. I also posted on the Classic Rendezvous site but have not heard
back. Any help would be appreciated.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...VpSc1Z6dnlRWUE

jamesdak 04-14-17 08:09 PM

Wow, I've no idea but can't wait to hear more about this one from the wise ones here.

Roll-Monroe-Co 04-14-17 08:12 PM

This has all the hallmarks of a "people get very excited" thread

Edit: How wrong I was. :(

juvela 04-15-17 02:58 PM

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Dates from early 1960's. Frame constructed with Agrati lugset model "AM." Head is bulge-formed. 1964 was approximately the final year for the bicycle's Ambrosio I-beam stem. There are different generations of the bicycle's Campagnolo Gran Sport rear derailleur. It enjoyed a relatively long production life. You may be able to bracket the dating a bit narrower by comparing it to the ones shown at Velobase.com:

VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo 1012/1, Gran Sport

VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo 1012/4, Gran Sport

Do hubs have a "Simplex" mark on their barrels? Suspect they may be five-piece steel made for Juy by FB. Pedals look like Sheffield model 663. Chainset Magistroni, regardless of how marked.

Regarding branding - cycle could be a contract build done for an importer or chain store. May not be a "real" brand in the sense of their being a cycle manufacturer with that name.

If you could post an even larger format photo of the partial seat tube transfer it might advance the detective work of readers.

Have had a number of different Italian bikes from this time come through my workshop which were identical "in the metal" to yours. All wore different brand names.

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markk900 04-15-17 03:21 PM

I'd guess the seat tube decal also said "la campagnolo", so likely that was the model since it was campy equipped.

What a cool bike!

unworthy1 04-15-17 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 19513555)
I'd guess the seat tube decal also said "la campagnolo", so likely that was the model since it was campy equipped.

What a cool bike!

Aside from it being the well-known name of that world famous Cycle and Auto parts company, la Campagnola also means simply "farm girl" or "country girl" likewise il Campagnolo means "farm boy" "country boy" can be used as a mild insult if it's from a sophisticate looking down on the bumpkins.
So, might just be the brandname...i agree it looks like so many others that shared these lugs, stay caps, and many of the components, but at least this one has some alloy rims, Gran Sport RD, and Simplex skewers, etc.

John E 04-16-17 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by juvela (Post 19513504)
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Dates from early 1960's. Frame constructed with Agrati lugset model "AM." Head is bulge-formed. 1964 was approximately the final year for the bicycle's Ambrosio I-beam stem. ...
Do hubs have a "Simplex" mark on their barrels? Suspect they may be five-piece steel made for Juy by FB. Pedals look like Sheffield model 663. Chainset Magistroni, regardless of how marked.

Regarding branding - cycle could be a contract build done for an importer or chain store. May not be a "real" brand in the sense of their being a cycle manufacturer with that name.

...
Have had a number of different Italian bikes from this time come through my workshop which were identical "in the metal" to yours. All wore different brand names.

-----

The lugwork differs slightly, but the frame looks a lot like that of my 1962 Bianchi Corsa. Beyond that, juvela has it pretty well dialed in -- one of the mass-marked Italian bikes that made its way to the US in the early 1960s, some appearing in bike shops, others in department stores. The seat post diameter will help us narrow down the type of tubing, although I can almost guarantee it is plain gauge carbon steel, rather than, say, butted CrMo / Columbus.

I have a special fondness for Italian frames of that vintage, because their geometries make them superb all-rounders.

T-Mar 04-16-17 08:27 AM

Agreed the it appears to be early 1960s. It's definitely no older than 1961, assuming the calipers are OEM. The frame itself appears to be over dressed. The workmanship and stamped dropouts are typical for a mass produced frame of entry to lower mid-range grade, though the component mix would be considered mi-range for the era. As noted by John E it is probably hi-tensile steel and almost certainly not Columbus, with the best indicator of tubing grade being the seat post diameter.

Edit: If there is a serial number, it may allow us to identify the manufacturer.

9volt 04-16-17 08:54 AM

Torpado?

Here's a thread on a similar bike - http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...frame-i-d.html

Campagnerdo 04-16-17 11:07 AM

The similar bike is mine, decided it was Chiorda, as advised by the experts, and also the one piece headtube (stamped, no lugs) which, I understand, was a Chiorda construction technique. I always wondered what the decal ghost on the downtube said...


Originally Posted by 9volt (Post 19514683)
Torpado?

Here's a thread on a similar bike - http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...frame-i-d.html


juvela 04-17-17 10:14 AM

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One dating aid forgot to mention above is the white Delrin nuts on the Simplex quick release skewers. White Delrin came in in 1962 IIRC. Only seems to have been used for two or three years in this position.

Campagnerdo - the bulge-formed head on your bicycle is a standard Agrati offering and was used by a great many brands. It is not unique to Chiorda. It is Agrati part nr. 000.8046. Seat lug is Agrati part nr. 022.8049. Fork ends are Agrati part nr. 000.8010. Dropouts are Agrati part nr. 000.8002.

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juvela 04-21-17 08:54 AM

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Found this image of the same hubset seen on the bike. The poster dates it as 1959. If this date correct it would mean white Delrin use began three years prior to its first use in the company's derailleurs. Our Juy experts may wish to comment...

Hubs would date from a time when there was a Juy d'Italia operation still going.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...c7cbfd77a9.jpg

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