JWK

I've had my Surly LHT disc since I bought it new in 2013. My wife and I each got one with the intent on going touring. Things happen, we didn't go touring, but we still ride our bikes. My typical rides last summer were usually between 30 and 50 miles, three or four times a week. I want a new bike that better suits my use.

Of modern bikes, I'm looking at an All City Space Horse frameset. I have almost all the components already from another bike. I would have to get canti brakes and some other stuff, but the major stuff is already here.

So I'm wondering if I should be looking at a vintage bike. I've read through that whole thread on the sport touring bikes, but I don't know enough to go shopping yet. Should I start down this rabbit hole?

1. I want something that can take at least 32mm tires with fenders. Wider would be a plus. I weigh 220 lbs. Last summer I got down to around 205, so let's assume were talking between 200 and 220 lbs. in the coming bike season.

2. I don't need racks. I use Eogear seat bags and will get a handlebar bag for my rides. If I ever need racks, they will go on the Surly. This is what worries me about the SH. It's made for light touring. I'm afraid it might be a little too close to the LHT in feel (too heavy and stiff), but then again I *do* weigh 220...

3. I do not want a restore job. I want the basic components I have on my LHT - nine speed with a triple in front. So I'm looking mostly for a frameset and do not want to ruin a classic that could be restored. 68mm BB and 700c wheels would be at the top of the list. 27" wheels would not be a deal breaker. I wouldn't mind building some wheels if the bike was worth it.

4. I don't have the budget to get something like a gunnar right now, but trying to get the most inexpensive is not my objective. Getting the best ride for comfortable all day trips and brevets is what I'm after with what I can afford right now. A Space Horse frameset would be about the top of the budget.

So what do you think? Considering that I can do my own work, can I do better with vintage for the same money or less, or should I just get the SH frameset? Is it apples and oranges?

Thanks for any advice and/or info.

bdooner

I'd check out the Black Mountain Monstercross and Soma's offerings. Great multi purpose frames. Nice bi plane fork on the Monster and larger tire accommodation.

Andy_K 

Well, you're asking in the C&V forum, so you probably know what kind of answer you're going to get, right? The fact that you can do your own work tilts the scales very heavily in favor of vintage IMO, but it also depends on how patient you are and what your local market is like.

Assuming you're going to pay the retail price of $600 for the Space Horse, your point of comparison is nearly any vintage bike frame on the market. Let me show you a few vintage frames I've bought in the past year to give you an idea of the range of what's out there.

1987 Pinarello Montello -- $600


1982 Trek 614 -- $150


1986 Centurion LeMans RS -- $40



I paid about the same for the Pinarello that you would for a new Space Horse. It's not the kind of frame you're looking for, but I'm sharing to give you an idea of what a vintage frame in that price range can be like. When new it would have been painted, but the bare chrome when I bought it was in fantastic condition. Pinarello (whether justly so or not may be debated) is a brand that draws a premium price these days and the Montello was their top of the line frame in the mid to late 80's. It's got Columbus SLX tubing and came with a headset in good condition.

The Centurion isn't quite the other end of the spectrum, but it's about as low as I'd go unless I was just wanting something to tinker with in the garage. It has Tange 2 tubing (not top of the line, but not bad) with a Tange Mangalloy fork (kind of low end). It was about in the middle of Centurion's offerings in 1986. The paint on this one is badly chipped all over the place and the frame has a few minor dents. It came with a headset, Shimano HTII bottom bracket and mis-sized seatpost. This also isn't quite what you're after (it wouldn't take more than 700x28 tires), but it's close and you could likely find something of this quality in this price range that did have the characteristics you're looking for.

The Trek, I think, is just about exactly what you're after. It has a Reynolds 531 main triangle (excellent stuff) with Ishiwata stays and forks (above average but below 531). The paint was in excellent condition, though I can see places where the previous owner touched it up (seen by texture, not color mismatch). There is some minor damage on the chainstays from an over-zealous kickstand installation somewhere in its past. It came with a good headset and bottom bracket. This frame takes 27x1-1/4" tires with plenty of clearance. I haven't tried it with 700c wheels, but 35mm tires would probably fit. If I went down to 650B (a popular choice in rando circles), I'd be looking at 38's or maybe even 42's. It has all the braze-ons I'd need for modern components, fenders and a rack. In my mind, for $160 this frame kicks the Space Horse's booty pretty hard.

Andy_K 

I should also mention that if you're willing to buy a complete vintage bike and sell off the parts you could get a mid-level frame essentially for free (minus your time). Don't worry too much about parting out "a classic" because despite popular enthusiasm in some circles most vintage bikes are not rare or irreplaceable. Most vintage bikes you'll find are more like 80's Camaros than 60's Ferraris.

johnnyace 

Depending on what size you're looking for, I have a 1988 Miyata 615 for sale (see my sig). It's a touring bike, but I would say "light touring" rather than the full-touring Miyata 1000. 57cm, 27" wheels, possibly could be converted (definitely wide enough for 32+mm).

gomango

Touchdown.

That's what I did.

Untitled by gomango1849, on Flickr

bikemig 

A good quality vintage bike should cost less than a modern steel frame. You're best bet if you want fat tires is to do a 650b conversion on a sports touring type frame. That way you should be able to run 650b x 38c tires and fenders. You'll need wheels, tires, and brakes with the proper reach in doing the conversion.

Here is a useful site for doing a 650b conversion:

650B Conversion Guidlines

Spreading the frame from 126 mm to 130mm is no big deal.

Salamandrine 

I actually think the space horse is a pretty good choice for you. Looks good to me. For that matter a LHT with some lighter wheels and/or parts would probably do the trick. An LHT frame is only a pound or two more than a sports touring frame.

For around the same cost you could also get a Bob Jackson World Tour. They are 631 OS so you'll get vintage-ish looks and the extra rigidity of a modern OS frame. For a big guy that is very helpful.

bikemig 

Agreed that the space horse is a good choice; the soma pescadero would be a fine choice as well.

In a very real sense, finding the right C&V bike is a no risk or a small risk deal since you should be able to sell it for more or less what you paid for it. You can throw your modern components on that bike. If and when you sell it, you can put the old parts back on it and break even or come close to breaking even.

noglider 

It takes a lot of tinkering to take an old frame and get everything the way you want it. Is that good or bad? It depends. And still, there will be compromises, such as fender clearance or luggage rack braze-ons. But this has been my approach. I haven't bought a new bike in ages.

I don't know the Space Horse, but my wife has an All City Macho Man. Very impressive. If you want to be done with it, buy that. You'll be happy. But it might cost more.

Then again, all the tinkering has had me buying a few components more than once, to get it just right.

Barrettscv 

The requirements for a 700x32 tire along with a rigid enough frame for a 210 lbs cyclist indicates that a modern frame will best fit your needs.

grayEZrider

C & V all the way. Adopt N+1 and enjoy having more than one bike to ride according to mood and purpose while always having something available to tinker with or modify on hand. It's also way cheaper than just plates/insurance on a motorcycle or second car as a hobby.

rccardr 

If you intend to ride the same amount of daily miles that you do now, the LHT with the racks removed should work just fine, and won't cost anything.

If you intend to ride more daily miles than you do now, the LHT with the racks removed until you do smething requiring racks should work just fine, and also costs no more money.

Sir_Name 

Nice, and I'd call it a plus not having a stiff disc fork as far as the new stuff goes. That looks like it'd glide.

hilltowner

I've got a '72 Raleigh International frame & fork that I'd like to sell. It's a 23.5" seat tube. The paint job and decals are pretty ratty at this point. Not so much a restore project as a 650b conversion candidate a la Mssrs. Guglielmana and Lerner here: International Redux

clasher

I started out riding brevets on a vintage miele road bike which worked fine for 200s and 300. I wanted a dynamo and fenders so I upgraded my miyata 1000 and it worked well enough for a couple 400s but something in the fit caused a cramp on a 600. I ended up doing a couple more 200s on that miyata without any problems. In 2016 I got a good deal on a specialized roubaix and ended up using that in 2016 and had much nicer fit on it than I did on my miyata; did a whole SR without any real issues.

I just found out about Soma's Pescadero Frame and think it'd be the way to go for a classic looking rando bike with modern parts. I prefer dual pivots to cantilevers so it scores another point for me there.

I'm about your weight and I don't worry about riding carbon or my lightweight steel bikes on long rides one bit, which is what I liked about the miyata 1000 over something like the LHT. My girlfriend rides brevets with me on LHT and does just fine... there are a couple of other touring bikes in our club but most are carbon or aluminum road bikes.

obrentharris 

This is a suggestion to take seriously. There were vintage bikes made that will meet these two requirements but not a lot of them.

Very nice bike, beautifully set up.

Brent

bikemig 

I think one of the OP's two requirements is easy enough to satisfy; most any well made vintage bike made of quality steel can work well for a 210 lb rider. I honestly don't see this as being much of an issue.

32c tires can be more of an issue. The OP is talking about a bike that takes at least a standard reach brake (47-57 mm). That should work with a 28mm tires and fenders without much trouble. Some bikes with this reach brake can take a 32c as well and fenders. I'll bet that pretty much any vintage bike with 57 mm or longer reach can take a 32c tire and a fender.

gorillagirl

I agree that a vintage Trek frameset is exactly what you are looking for. It'll fit 35s easily, is made of quality tubing, and was basically designed just for what you have in mind. There are plenty of them kicking around too.

Barabaika

Wouldn't this bicycle work for you? It has a rack, of course.
I suspect that the rear wheel has 40 spokes for a big guy.

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bik/6084950100.html
You can rebuild the rear wheel with a modern hub and add modern shifters.

The Golden Boy 

I don't have, nor have I ridden a LHT. All I "know" is what I've read on the internet.

The criticism that's often given to the LHT is that it's "dead" when unloaded.

Now, I ride tourers as daily riders and I think mine are on the spritely side of the vintage tourer, however, there's a world of difference between any of them and my Trek 730.

I'd guess an upper level tourer or sport tourer would be great for the purposes in question. IMO- a Trek 400-500-600-700 series sport touring geometry bike would be not only perfect in purpose, but also crushing in style!

Barrettscv 

My Motobecane Grand Record can fit a 700x32 and fender, partially because it's a 27 inch wheel to 700c wheel conversion. My Peugeot PX10 has less clearance, a 700x28 will fit under a fender, a 700x32 will not. None of my other bikes will fit a 700x32 and fender. Some of the Touring bikes from this era have sufficient clearance, but these models are in high demand, if you can find one.

Both of these bikes perform well by 1975 standards, but both feature some excessive flex under a muscular 220 lbs rider. Most physically fit cyclist in the 1970's were well under 180 lbs, even the tallest men. Also, restoring these bikes to be 100% reliable long distance bikes is not cost effective.

bikemig 

We agree on the first point but I think it less of an issue than you suggest.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the 2d point (which is in bold). I hear you that you find those bikes too flexy but I think a well made steel bike of that era is just fine for the OP. And I do think a vintage bike can be highly cost effective. Even if you want to largely modernize the bike, you've saved a lot of money on the frame alone.

I've been riding the heck out of my 1984 Trek 610 lately and plan to use it on a number of long distance trips. I'm running 700 x 32c tires. The bike is almost entirely vintage (except the brake levers, freewheel, and pedals) but that was not entirely by design. I just used what I had on hand and what I could get cheaply. I may have $250 or so invested in this bike (this includes new clement strada LGG tires but does not include the bag and electronics).

Barrettscv 

You should ride a bike built from Columbus SPX or TSX. It's a huge improvement in stiffness over Reynolds 531. Also the slack geometry and the crimped chainstays on steel bikes with room for 32mm tires reduces stiffness significant.

gomango

Heh thanks guys.

Chrome Molly built it up for me a couple of months ago.

Best inexpensive frameset going, I think.

800 miles so far.......