Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Questions about tuning up my 70's era Eisentraut

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Questions about tuning up my 70's era Eisentraut

Old 04-24-17, 11:17 PM
  #1  
rlpfromak
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Questions about tuning up my 70's era Eisentraut

Though it's taken me two years (I'd link to my initial post from December 18, 2014, but as a newbie I'm not allowed to do it yet), Iíve finally started working on tuning up my 1970ís era Eisentraut. Itís been about 35 years since I did any work on this bike, so Iíve got a few questions for the group, (and more are sure to come up).

I'm repacking the Sugino crankset and I've taken the bearings out, but I cannot get the lock ring out on the right side (the drive side, shown upside-down in the photo). Sorry for a stupid question, but is this right hand or left hand thread? I've torqued on it pretty hard in both directions without luck, but it would be nice to know if I was going in the correct direction. I'd be grateful for any other hints on how to remove it, or clever tips on how to get better leverage or how to attach some sort of cheater bar to my bottom bracket wrench (I'm using an open-end-on-both-sides 35/36 mm wrench. It's a fairly thin wrench). It looks like I could repack the bearing without taking off the right lock ring, but the bearing race cup would be much more accessible if I could remove it.

I've also got two pair of Dura-Ace hubs, one with clincher rims (Weinmann, 27" x 1 1/4") and one with 27" Mavic tubular rims. I'm not eager to deal with sew-up tires again so I'm planning on relacing the tubular set with new clincher rims. With regard to the other set, are the current metal/alloy rims better than what I had 40 years ago or should I stick with the old 27" rims (they are still in pretty good shape)? And have 27" rims and tires gone the way of 2400 baud modems? Almost everything I see is 700cc; the selection of 27" tires seems pretty slim. Can I even use a 700 mm rim on this bike?

Further plans are to keep the side-pull Campy brakes and the black Campy pedals, and if possible to keep the outer crank ring and replace the inner one with a 39 tooth ring. I still need to decide what type of freewheel to get. The bike has Crane derailleurs and I may need to replace them, both front and rear, depending on the choice of freewheel. The paint is a little chipped in spots; Iíd love to get it repainted but Iíd hate to lose the Albert Eisentraut decal.

Thanks in advance for help!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
bracket.jpg (71.0 KB, 211 views)
File Type: jpg
Eisentraut frame.JPG (83.1 KB, 210 views)
File Type: jpg
Crank arm.jpg (91.4 KB, 207 views)
rlpfromak is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 05:44 AM
  #2  
The Golden Boy 
Extraordinary Magnitude
 
The Golden Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,149

Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2419 Post(s)
Liked 1,118 Times in 659 Posts
Originally Posted by rlpfromak View Post

I'm repacking the Sugino crankset and I've taken the bearings out, but I cannot get the lock ring out on the right side (the drive side, shown upside-down in the photo). Sorry for a stupid question, but is this right hand or left hand thread? I've torqued on it pretty hard in both directions without luck, but it would be nice to know if I was going in the correct direction. I'd be grateful for any other hints on how to remove it, or clever tips on how to get better leverage or how to attach some sort of cheater bar to my bottom bracket wrench (I'm using an open-end-on-both-sides 35/36 mm wrench. It's a fairly thin wrench). It looks like I could repack the bearing without taking off the right lock ring, but the bearing race cup would be much more accessible if I could remove it.
Drive side is reverse thread.

Think of it this way- Turn them towards the front of the bike to get them off.

If you have questions, check out You Tube- there's great videos there.

Or feel free to ask away here! (But you'll have to post more pix of that bike!! )


As far as the 27"/700c thing...

I'm not opposed to 27" wheels. Most of what I'm riding is all 27". However, I did change one bike over to 700c. There is a MUCH larger selection of tires available for 700c wheels. For me, going from Panaracer Pasellas to Compass Bon Jon Pass tires was a revelation. It's got me rethinking my whole... idiom.

It's 4 mm smaller- Make sure your brake pads can go up that high. Otherwise, new brakes would be in order- but... the super nice tires. And then you can also fit wider, taller tires if you so choose.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*

Commence to jiggliní huh?!?!

"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.

Last edited by The Golden Boy; 04-25-17 at 06:10 AM.
The Golden Boy is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 05:47 AM
  #3  
big chainring 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wilmette, IL
Posts: 7,184
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 710 Post(s)
Liked 537 Times in 277 Posts
The BB cup on the dtive side is the "fixed" cup. Leave it be. Shove some grease in there and put the bearings in.

Replacing your sew-up rims sounds like a good idea. The 27's most likely will give you very tight clearances.

Keep the original paint.
big chainring is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 05:56 AM
  #4  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 19,582

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5516 Post(s)
Liked 2,458 Times in 1,578 Posts
The crane derailleurs are very good quality. If the rear is a short cage, a long cage crane can be found with some looking. There are plenty of good 700c rims out there that will look right on the bike. For inexpensive, you can use Sun CR 18. More expensive, the H plus son hb 14 are very good. It's easy enough to touch up the paint and then wax the frame.
bikemig is online now  
Old 04-25-17, 06:13 AM
  #5  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,123

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, Aero Lotus & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 796 Times in 435 Posts
One of the challenges with your original clincher rims could be that they don't have a hooked bead which is used on modern tires to secure the tires for higher pressures. Can you take a picture of the inside of the rim with the tire removed?

You mention replacing the freewheel without specifics, such as needing to change the gearing, or are you trying to run a 6 speed instead of a 5? What do you hope to achieve? What are you concerned about in regard to your current freewheel(s)?

BTW, even if your current tubular wheels are marked 27" they are 700c. Since they fit with your current brake calipers you can replace the tubular rims with 700c clincher rims, which opens up 1000s of tire choices. If you were to stay with new 27" clincher rims, your tire choices would be in the dozens, so keep this in mind.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!

Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com





pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 06:30 AM
  #6  
oddjob2
Still learning
 
oddjob2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North of Canada, Adirondacks
Posts: 11,620

Bikes: Still a garage full

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 847 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 40 Posts
EZ Peasy - buy yourself a hardened bolt, 2 washers to fit inside the bb cup, a large fender washer to hold the BB wrench in place against the bb cup flats, and a nut to bolt the assembly together.

Insert the bolt and 2 washers with the threads facing you, add the wrench, fender washers, and nut. Hand tighten only. Now you can strike the bb wrench with a hammer without it sliding off the flats, clockwise as already stated by others.

You would need to more the pads down about 4mm to accommodate 700c rims or get longer reach brakes. If you're re-building worth the change over to brand new rims.
oddjob2 is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 07:40 AM
  #7  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,759

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3052 Post(s)
Liked 2,182 Times in 1,303 Posts
Originally Posted by rlpfromak View Post
I'm repacking the Sugino crankset and I've taken the bearings out, but I cannot get the lock ring out on the right side (the drive side, shown upside-down in the photo). Sorry for a stupid question, but is this right hand or left hand thread?
That's the fixed cup and it is left-hand thread, so turn clockwise to loosen. But really, there's no compelling reason to remove it unless it is damaged and needs replacement. They don't call it a "fixed cup" for nothing! Just clean it in place and re-pack.

Almost everything I see is 700cc; the selection of 27" tires seems pretty slim. Can I even use a 700 mm rim on this bike?
There are still some decent 27" tires available. My go-to tire is the Panaracer Pasela, which is decently priced, rides nicely, and is available in a variety of sidewall treatments, diameters (including 27"), and widths. I can't comment on whether a 700C tire will work in your frame without seeing how the brake pads sit in the calipers. The radius of a 27" rim is 4mm greater than that of a 700C rim, so if your brakes are currently set to use 27" rims, you'd need to drop the pads by 4mm in order to reach the rim sidewall.

The bike has Crane derailleurs and I may need to replace them, both front and rear, depending on the choice of freewheel.
The Crane derailleur is a decent unit and should handle up to a 28T cog. If you plan on going larger than that you'll want a long-cage derailleur. The Crane did come in a long-cage version (Crane GT), so if you want to keep the bike period correct you could look for one of those. Or even scavenge a long cage from a Tourney GT derailleur (virtually identical to the Crane) and commonly seen as the stock "Schwinn-Approved" derailleur on Le Tours and other models.

Last edited by JohnDThompson; 04-25-17 at 07:43 AM.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 08:46 AM
  #8  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 421 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
That's the fixed cup and it is left-hand thread, so turn clockwise to loosen. But really, there's no compelling reason to remove it unless it is damaged and needs replacement. They don't call it a "fixed cup" for nothing! Just clean it in place and re-pack.
I agree that the fixed cup should be left in place. It is not meant to be removed for regular maintenance.

However it must be noted that this cup is marked as ITALIAN THREADED. That means it is right hand thread, not reverse. There is little chance you would be able to remove and install it properly without the professional tool. We used to put these things in with a campy fixed cup tool and breaker pipes.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribshe...mbrackets.html

I wouldn't bother with 27" tires. If it had sew ups on it, 700c clinchers are the same size. 27" are bigger. Modern rims in general are better. IMO don't use the vintage rims. There were a lot of lousy clincher rims then, as most serious people rode sewups not clinchers. A cheap Sun M13II is better than 90% of them. You need a box section and hooked rims.

Last edited by Salamandrine; 04-25-17 at 09:00 AM.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 10:39 AM
  #9  
jeirvine 
Senior Member
 
jeirvine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bethesda/Baltimore MD
Posts: 3,818

Bikes: '72 Moto Grand Record, '72 Gitane tandem, '72 Raleigh Super Course, '73 Raleigh Gran Sport, '73 and '76 Colnagos Super, '76 Fiorelli Coppi, '78 Raleigh SBDU Team Pro, '78 Trek 930, '81 Holdsworth Special 650B, '86 Masi GC, '87 Panasonic DX5000

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 355 Times in 204 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
I agree that the fixed cup should be left in place. It is not meant to be removed for regular maintenance.

However it must be noted that this cup is marked as ITALIAN THREADED. That means it is right hand thread, not reverse. There is little chance you would be able to remove and install it properly without the professional tool. We used to put these things in with a campy fixed cup tool and breaker pipes.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribshe...mbrackets.html
Thanks - I came here to say the same thing. The "36 x 24" is the tip off. Though I too would leave it. Clean it and grease it in place.
__________________
The man who dies with the most toysÖis dead. - Rootboy
jeirvine is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 02:06 PM
  #10  
rlpfromak
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
One of the challenges with your original clincher rims could be that they don't have a hooked bead which is used on modern tires to secure the tires for higher pressures. Can you take a picture of the inside of the rim with the tire removed?

You mention replacing the freewheel without specifics, such as needing to change the gearing, or are you trying to run a 6 speed instead of a 5? What do you hope to achieve? What are you concerned about in regard to your current freewheel(s)?

BTW, even if your current tubular wheels are marked 27" they are 700c. Since they fit with your current brake calipers you can replace the tubular rims with 700c clincher rims, which opens up 1000s of tire choices. If you were to stay with new 27" clincher rims, your tire choices would be in the dozens, so keep this in mind.
I've attached a photo of the clincher and the tubular rim. I didn't realize that my tubulars are 700c, so 700c clinchers apparently will be fine on this bike.
With regard to the freewheel, I'd like to get as low a gear as possible (Anchorage is hillier than Champaign-Urbana, where I bought the bike) and my current freewheel's largest gear has 26 teeth. I'm hoping to find one that will give me a lower gear. Plus my current flywheel is pretty old.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
clincher rim.JPG (64.5 KB, 128 views)
File Type: jpg
tubular.jpg (100.5 KB, 129 views)
rlpfromak is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 02:34 PM
  #11  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,759

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3052 Post(s)
Liked 2,182 Times in 1,303 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
it must be noted that this cup is marked as ITALIAN THREADED. That means it is right hand thread, not reverse.
Good catch, I missed that! I guess I assumed that since Eisentraut is an American builder, he'd use English thread bottom brackets. This despite the fact that my wife's TS Isaac frame (built by one of the builders Eisentraut taught) has an Italian bottom bracket. My bad.

Yet another reason to leave it in place.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 02:54 PM
  #12  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,137

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1201 Post(s)
Liked 806 Times in 554 Posts
Originally Posted by oddjob2 View Post
EZ Peasy - buy yourself a hardened bolt, 2 washers to fit inside the bb cup, a large fender washer to hold the BB wrench in place against the bb cup flats, and a nut to bolt the assembly together.

Insert the bolt and 2 washers with the threads facing you, add the wrench, fender washers, and nut. Hand tighten only. Now you can strike the bb wrench with a hammer without it sliding off the flats, clockwise as already stated by others. ...
You can adapt that trick for a RH threaded fixed cup such as this (36x24, thus Italian). Instead of putting the wrench on the nut, you put a socket and extension through the BB shell to the bolt head, add a breaker bar, and hit the end of it with a hammer.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 02:56 PM
  #13  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,137

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1201 Post(s)
Liked 806 Times in 554 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Good catch, I missed that! I guess I assumed that since Eisentraut is an American builder, he'd use English thread bottom brackets. This despite the fact that my wife's TS Isaac frame (built by one of the builders Eisentraut taught) has an Italian bottom bracket. My bad.

Yet another reason to leave it in place.
Reaming and rethreading a 35mm French, English, ISO, or Swiss BB to Italian (36mm) was a popular cure for stripped threads. I wonder if that happened with this frame.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 03:41 PM
  #14  
MetinUz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by John E View Post
Reaming and rethreading a 35mm French, English, ISO, or Swiss BB to Italian (36mm) was a popular cure for stripped threads. I wonder if that happened with this frame.
Early Eisentraut bottom bracket shells with script E engraving and cast cable guides were Italian threaded. Something about lack of a source for English threaded shells at the time...
MetinUz is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 06:43 PM
  #15  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 421 Posts
A lot of the US custom builders of that period used Italian threads. British threads weren't really a standard yet, they were British. I guess the hipster California builders thought it was cooler to be more like Cinelli and less like Raleigh...

My Masi was made in USA and has Italian threads. Didn't Eisentraut start at Masi?
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 07:26 PM
  #16  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,123

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, Aero Lotus & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 796 Times in 435 Posts
Originally Posted by rlpfromak View Post
I've attached a photo of the clincher and the tubular rim. I didn't realize that my tubulars are 700c, so 700c clinchers apparently will be fine on this bike.
With regard to the freewheel, I'd like to get as low a gear as possible (Anchorage is hillier than Champaign-Urbana, where I bought the bike) and my current freewheel's largest gear has 26 teeth. I'm hoping to find one that will give me a lower gear. Plus my current flywheel is pretty old.
Your clincher rim is the old style (smooth inside wall) and does not utilize the current hook edge. They look something like this:



Sun CR13 700c rims would make a great substitute and would come close to matching your original rims. They run about $35 each and are very sturdy.

As far as your freewheel is concerned. It can be serviced, it might be able to be regeared, and it might still have many miles left in it. What is the brand and can you post a picture?

Is your Crane RD a short or long cage?
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!

Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com





pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 07:52 PM
  #17  
obrentharris 
Senior Member
 
obrentharris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Point Reyes Station, California
Posts: 3,946

Bikes: Indeed!

Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1177 Post(s)
Liked 2,081 Times in 705 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
...Didn't Eisentraut start at Masi?
Not unless Masi had a workshop in Chicago in the fifties...

87_10Eisentraut1

A bit of biography in this 1987 piece by Owen Muholland. Click the little right arrow at the top of the pages to continue to the next page.
Brent
obrentharris is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 07:53 PM
  #18  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,759

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3052 Post(s)
Liked 2,182 Times in 1,303 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
My Masi was made in USA and has Italian threads. Didn't Eisentraut start at Masi?
No, he worked with Oscar Wastyn in Chicago building Paramounts for Schwinn:

Eisentraut
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 08:00 PM
  #19  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 421 Posts
Ah, thanks for the links dudes. Never really looked into Eisentraut's history, and did not realize he was already that experienced when he built some Masi's in the 70s. We have something in common as we are both worked at Velo Sport. LOL. That's cool he built Paramounts.

Last edited by Salamandrine; 04-25-17 at 08:17 PM.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 08:13 PM
  #20  
3speedslow
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,114

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1882 Post(s)
Liked 823 Times in 519 Posts
Speaking of Crane, the cages are similar in appearance but not in metal. Still would function very well. This long cage came from a Shimano Tourney. It will be going on a Titlist. Exchanging parts between these models is very easy. Perfect fits.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_1274.jpg (93.0 KB, 105 views)
3speedslow is offline  
Old 04-25-17, 09:04 PM
  #21  
rlpfromak
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Your clincher rim is the old style (smooth inside wall) and does not utilize the current hook edge. They look something like this.

Sun CR13 700c rims would make a great substitute and would come close to matching your original rims. They run about $35 each and are very sturdy.

As far as your freewheel is concerned. It can be serviced, it might be able to be regeared, and it might still have many miles left in it. What is the brand and can you post a picture?

Is your Crane RD a short or long cage?
I've got a Pro Compe freeewheel (largest gear 26 teeth) and a Sun Tour Winner freewheel (largest gear 24 teeth). And the rear derailleur is short arm.

My crankset chainrings are 51 and 42 teeth, and I'm planning on changing the inner ring to 39 teeth since I'd like to get as low a gear ratio as possible. My frame can probably take at most a 6 ring freewheel (the distance between the center of the rear dropouts is about 123 mm) and I'd like to get as large a gear as possible for that freewheel. If I can get a larger gear, I suppose I'll need a long arm derailleur.

Is it worth it to regear an old freewheel rather than just getting a new one?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Pro-Compe freewheel.JPG (52.9 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg
Sun Tour freewheel.JPG (52.7 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg
rear derailleur.JPG (38.1 KB, 82 views)
rlpfromak is offline  
Old 04-26-17, 06:15 PM
  #22  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,123

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, Aero Lotus & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 796 Times in 435 Posts
I'm guessing your Crane can handle a 28T sprocket on your freewheel. I had a Shimano 400 of about the same vintage and style which did so. I do have either a Crane and/or a Shimano 600 long cage if you are interested. They should be able to handle up to a 34T.

Both your freewheels are made by Suntour. The one on the right looks completely shot (as in severe tooth wear) and can not be easily serviced or re-geared. Toss it or clean and use as a paper weight!

The Pro-Compe on the other hand shows some promise. It's more difficult to see if the teeth are overly worn or not. The ProCompe and Perfect model Suntours can be easily serviced and re-geared. I could easily change it from 14-26 to 14-34, or 14-32, or 14-30, or 14-28.

Have you measured the spacing on your hub, lock nut to lock nut? If it is 120mm, you will need to use an "Ultra" or compact spaced 6 speed freewheel. Basically 6 sprockets are almost squeezed into the space of 5. Another option is to see if your hub can accommodate and extra spacer on the drive side to reach the 123mm spacing. If so, when you build the new wheels you can have the wheel dished for a 6 speed freewheel.

Another option is to find a 126mm spaced rear wheel and spread the stays to fit this standard (for most 6 & 7 speed road bikes).

Finally, if you'd like to go really low on a vintage freewheel, Suntour made a 38T sprocket for their freewheels. It can be hard to find and you need to match it to just a handful of RD's that can handle this 38T (Sachs Huret Eco Duopar, Suntour 3 pulley RDs, and Suntour Mountaintech, to name a few). It does provide a nice low when you need one.

__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!

Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com





pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 04-26-17, 06:44 PM
  #23  
Trsnrtr
Super Moderator
 
Trsnrtr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 21,518

Bikes: Giant Propel, Colnago V3, Co-Motion Supremo, ICE VTX, ICE VTX WC

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9474 Post(s)
Liked 3,008 Times in 1,419 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
No, he worked with Oscar Wastyn in Chicago building Paramounts for Schwinn:

Eisentraut
Yep. I owned two Eisentrauts. Hard man to talk to. Kind of a curmudgeon.
__________________

-Dennis T







Trsnrtr is offline  
Old 04-26-17, 09:54 PM
  #24  
rlpfromak
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
I'm guessing your Crane can handle a 28T sprocket on your freewheel. I had a Shimano 400 of about the same vintage and style which did so. I do have either a Crane and/or a Shimano 600 long cage if you are interested. They should be able to handle up to a 34T.

Both your freewheels are made by Suntour. The one on the right looks completely shot (as in severe tooth wear) and can not be easily serviced or re-geared. Toss it or clean and use as a paper weight!

The Pro-Compe on the other hand shows some promise. It's more difficult to see if the teeth are overly worn or not. The ProCompe and Perfect model Suntours can be easily serviced and re-geared. I could easily change it from 14-26 to 14-34, or 14-32, or 14-30, or 14-28.

Have you measured the spacing on your hub, lock nut to lock nut? If it is 120mm, you will need to use an "Ultra" or compact spaced 6 speed freewheel. Basically 6 sprockets are almost squeezed into the space of 5. Another option is to see if your hub can accommodate and extra spacer on the drive side to reach the 123mm spacing. If so, when you build the new wheels you can have the wheel dished for a 6 speed freewheel.

Another option is to find a 126mm spaced rear wheel and spread the stays to fit this standard (for most 6 & 7 speed road bikes).

Finally, if you'd like to go really low on a vintage freewheel, Suntour made a 38T sprocket for their freewheels. It can be hard to find and you need to match it to just a handful of RD's that can handle this 38T (Sachs Huret Eco Duopar, Suntour 3 pulley RDs, and Suntour Mountaintech, to name a few). It does provide a nice low when you need one.
Thanks for your reply.
Your comment that one of the freewheels had worn teeth made me wonder what you think about my front chainring. I've attached a photo. A mechanic at a local bike shop thought that it wasn't too bad and didn't need to be replaced; he said that older systems were more forgiving. I thought that the teeth looked a little worn and that it would make sense to replace it since I've already got the crankset off the bike.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
chainring.jpg (95.8 KB, 50 views)
rlpfromak is offline  
Old 04-26-17, 11:12 PM
  #25  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 11,049

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3454 Post(s)
Liked 3,547 Times in 2,192 Posts
This seems to an almost universal prerequisite for oldschool framebuilders, not that you can blame them. Case in point is the Marinoni movie, a great film that I highly recommend exemplifies this perfectly.


Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Yep. I owned two Eisentrauts. Hard man to talk to. Kind of a curmudgeon.
merziac is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.