Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Shimano 105 vs 600

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Shimano 105 vs 600

Old 04-28-17, 03:32 PM
  #1  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,208

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 639 Post(s)
Liked 473 Times in 258 Posts
Shimano 105 vs 600

What would qualify the 600 group as being better than the 105? I am amazed with the shifting performance of both but coming in from a ride on the Miyata 712 w/105, there could be no appreciable difference. In fact, the 105 group shifts so smoothly, quickly and quietly I am believing it to be better than the 600 tri-color. Is there a significant weight difference I'm not seeing? (I havent consulted disraeli gears just yet)
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 03:43 PM
  #2  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 18,239

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5007 Post(s)
Liked 1,512 Times in 997 Posts
shimano figured out how to sell pretty much the same stuff at dfferent price points with small differences in terms of materials and weight. it's all about the bling.
bikemig is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 03:53 PM
  #3  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 12,973

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 370 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2167 Post(s)
Liked 769 Times in 406 Posts
This same debate seems to exist between 105 and 600/Ultegra at every generation, and it seems to me that with each passing generation the gap is smaller.

The main differences seem to be in finish and materials. The 600/Ultegra stuff is generally supposed to be lighter and nicer looking. In some of the incarnations I think Ultegra has a more refined feel than 105 (more "click"/less "whack"), but it's always a very small difference. Mostly it's about the way it looks, I think.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 03:58 PM
  #4  
rccardr 
aka: Dr. Cannondale
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,365

Bikes: Lots. Just...lots.

Mentioned: 177 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1485 Post(s)
Liked 767 Times in 377 Posts
The bling and the materials. While the technology trickled down from DA to 600/Ultegra to 105, each level tended to be made with descending quality of materials and clearances. So, more polished metal, bearings and brass bushings in the high end stuff, less in the low end stuff.

But must agree, 105 is truly lovely. 105 1050 shifters with 6207/6208 600 is a thing of beauty. And my personal Cannondale SR uses mostly 1050 105 with DA 7400 hubs and a Shimano 600 freewheel. Better than 1051? Than 7403? We're talking pretty fine differences here.
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
rccardr is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 04:14 PM
  #5  
jethin
Senior Member
 
jethin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 52 Posts
The difference is 495, which is a lot or a little depending on how big you are.

Last edited by jethin; 04-28-17 at 07:01 PM.
jethin is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 06:49 PM
  #6  
top506
Death fork? Naaaah!!
 
top506's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The other Maine, north of RT 2
Posts: 4,920

Bikes: Seriously downsizing.

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked 163 Times in 98 Posts
105 (and the Exage 500 OEM groups) have always been the sweet spot in the Shimano line-up for me.

Top
__________________
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
top506 is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 09:21 PM
  #7  
RobbieTunes
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,370 Times in 884 Posts
Same thing, only different. Many a tri-bike ran 105 single pivots for the weight and simplicity. I have always liked the shifters, FD, and RD, but not the crankset.

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 04-28-17 at 09:25 PM.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 10:11 PM
  #8  
jetboy 
Senior Member
 
jetboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,285

Bikes: centurion ironman, look hinault 753, Zunow z-1, 83 stumpy sport, look kg96, various others

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 102 Posts
I recall reading when sis 600 and 105 first came out that some considered the 105 to be the better..even while cheaper. But 600 does look better!
jetboy is offline  
Old 04-29-17, 02:14 AM
  #9  
RiddleOfSteel
Master Parts Rearranger
 
RiddleOfSteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,724

Bikes: 1987 Medici Pro-Strada

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1221 Post(s)
Liked 795 Times in 461 Posts
It seems the only let-down for 105 in the mid to late '80s was the crankset, from an aesthetic standpoint. 600 cranksets throughout the '80s, IMO, were gorgeous--later 620X and 6400s. It also seems that the choice between 105 and 600 could also come down to what color of bike they would be put on--I am talking about tri-color 600 vs. high polish 105. The polished 105 aped big brother 7400 Dura Ace, and I am thinking about employing the levers on my 7400 Masi build as the 105 levers fit the look better than my black with light grey 'braket cap' (lever to hood trim ring) RX100 levers. Heck, even RX100's polish looked great. 7400 Dura Ace SIS always has that BAM-BAM-BAM gear changing sound. 600 and 105 go snick-snick-snick nice and quietly and I really like that.

I guess that's a long answer for: something something better materials (600 hubs are lovely) aaaand I don't know. They're both worth using, so if one matches better with your bike, go for it!
RiddleOfSteel is offline  
Old 04-29-17, 05:41 AM
  #10  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 8,397

Bikes: Vintage steel, aluminum, modern carbon disc, single speed, MTB's, the works

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2035 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 72 Posts
The early 105 single pivot brakes used a nut for centering, 600 used an allen bolt. Early 600 cranks had self extracting bolts. Besides that there isn't much difference. Exage Sport and 105 were virtually identical.
Lazyass is offline  
Old 04-30-17, 09:08 PM
  #11  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,208

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 639 Post(s)
Liked 473 Times in 258 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Same thing, only different. Many a tri-bike ran 105 single pivots for the weight and simplicity. I have always liked the shifters, FD, and RD, but not the crankset.
That describes my '87 Miyata 712. The 105 hubs are incredibly smooth and spin like forever, the center pivot calipers are strong and responsive. Overall, the 105 groupset gives a very dialed in feel.
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 05-01-17, 06:07 AM
  #12  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,028
Mentioned: 564 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3811 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,254 Times in 921 Posts
To put this into the proper context you really have to specify which generations of 105 and 600 you are comparing. Shimano rarely introduced new groups at different price levels, in the same year. This staggered approach allowed Shimano to ensure that each new group got a feature that would be exclusive to the group for at least one year and would consequently drive sales for the new group.

For instance, first generation 105 (aka Golden Arrow) was introduced in 1983, when the the 600 group was 2nd generation 600EX, which had been around since 1978. The big introduction on Golden Arrow was the wider employment of castings, especially in the rear derailleur. This gave it a more expensive aesthetic, at a time when 600EX was still employing cheaper looking formed aluminum.

Similarly, when 2nd generation New 105 came out in 1987, it was up against 4th generation New 600EX, which was into its 4th year. The significant leap in New 105 (1987) was the previously mentioned introduction of SLR brakes. Improved bearings, lighter caliper return springs, teflon lined cable housing and lever return springs all added up to brakes with an extremely light feel and excellent modulation. They set the standard for brakes, regardless of price level and were the first brakes that worked truly well with aero routing. Consequently, they were widely adopted by triathletes and even road racers used them on otherwise Dura-Ace and even Campagnolo equipped bicycles. However, this advantage was short lived, as SLR was added to 600 the following year, when it became 5th generation 600 Ultegra. Still, for one that first year New 105 was actually preferable to the higher New 600EX.

Shimano has excelled in technology distribution and adding value to increasing lower level components. In terms of performance, lower level level groups are often indistinguishable from higher groups, to most cyclists. The difference often comes down to price, weight, aesthetics and durability.

Last edited by T-Mar; 05-01-17 at 06:36 AM.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 05-01-17, 06:55 AM
  #13  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,576

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
...Shimano has excelled in technology distribution and adding value to increasing lower level components. In terms of performance, lower level level groups are often indistinguishable from higher groups, to most cyclists. The difference often comes down to price, weight, aesthetics and durability.
I would also add 'features'. I remember having 6500 and 7700 equipped bikes at the same time. The 7700 had a better FD trimming range with the STI lever. While there were other differences, none stood out as much when riding.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 05-04-17, 10:00 AM
  #14  
vascoboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
I have bikes with both, and I think they both perform VERY well. I prefer the aesthetics of the 600. I remember reading about the 105s on Sheldon Brown, and he praised their brakes...
vascoboy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
|3iker
Classic & Vintage
35
11-07-17 04:01 PM
hanusted@yahoo.
Road Cycling
2
02-09-17 10:20 AM
Miele Man
Classic & Vintage
11
10-05-16 04:24 PM
sdlesko
Road Cycling
41
10-18-12 09:17 PM
jinnjia
Road Cycling
24
08-20-10 01:24 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.