dadoflam

I am finishing a period correct Cinelli build - 1972. The frame has 126mm dropouts and I want to fit 5 speed Regina ORO freewheel.
Along my project travels a fellow enthusiast emailed me an itemised new bike receipt from his LBS from 1971 which included an ORO freewheel - which is great as it confirmed they were around - but not which version.


I'll admit that I've never mastered Regina freewheel dating and like everything Italian it looks like a dark art to me.


If I had to guess I would assume 5 speed, closely spaced with largest cog being 19 or 20 tooth, 2 slot/2 hole body. No idea on the stamping details though.
I've found a 14t-18t ORO stamped with Regina G.S. Oro S.I.C.C. Merate. Any chance this might be close to what I need.


Any help gratefully received

Andrew R Stewart 

Back in the late 1970s "Oro" was the version reference, "Corsa" was the lower cost grey version. With only using a 5 speed freewheel but having a 126 wide rear end will you be shifting some axle spacers to the non drive side for improved (as in less) dish? Good idea if so. Andy.

dadoflam

I was assuming(?) that 6 speed would not have been around in 1972 and that 5 speed would have been the norm - maybe not?

Salamandrine 

6 speed was around but rare. 5 speed was the norm.

By the late 70s everyone was respacing to 6 speed, which was dominant for about the next 10 years.

If the Cinelli is 126 now, it has been spaced for 6 speed and it would be silly to run 5. If you want to run 5 to be exactly period correct, then you should respace it back to 120 as well.

SJX426 

Given what @Salamandrine stated, I would consider a spacing of 126 and 6 speed period correct. I did that back in 1974
@dadoflam - this is an interesting thread

repechage

That is the one, but in a time trial cog range… That was top of the line, most likely this is the narrow range body, identified as only the largest cog removes to the back, the next position to the face. Standard bodies had the last two cogs unwind off the same land. These spin noticeably better and sound better than the extra marked units.

Later Regina did away with the two tiers of bodies, the beginning of the decline.

pastorbobnlnh 

Just my 2 cents: There is no difference between the internals of these "so called" better Regina bodies. The ORO gold sprockets possibly looked better (then the nickle plated sprockets), but that was really the only difference. Same pawls, same springs, same bearings, same sloppy machining, IMO. I say this after taking multiple dozens of Regina bodies apart and servicing them.

I'm guessing the difference in "spin" and "sound" was only a matter of difference in lubrication.

I have one of the really close corn cob Reginas in my stock of spares, where only the largest sprocket has the reverse threading off the back (or inside) of the body. Unfortunately the sprocket (18T IIRC) is warped and can't be installed. I've added a 19T for a new bail-out gear.

T-Mar

From a boom era Regina catalogue...

dadoflam

My frame was originally spaced at 126mm so I will continue on that theme and take the asuggestion to work on a 6spd freewheel - probably time I learnt how to re-dish my wheels and move the spacers.
At present the wheel is set up for 5spd and when fitted with 6spd freewheel the rain rubs when on the small cog.


I have found a 6 spd 13t-21t Regina G.S. ORO- S.I.C.C.-Merate so will work on fitting that one.


While I am on the topic of learining - I notice that some of the later ORO freewheels have what appears to be a year number included in the stamping - ie Regina ORO - Made in Italy 78. I think I have seen an 84 as well. Were these date stamps or model numbers?

repechage

Not sure exactly the date of that catalog excerpt, may never know as the catalogs were not dated by model year back then. For me, the decline began was when the G.S. Corsa bodies went away, a Regina Extra two prong removal body was a license to wobble, often it appeared to be poor machining matching of the two surfaces, the hub thread side to the body assembly side. The Extra bodies seemed to have very variable bearing adjustment, some were good, others tragic.

Later when they went to the splined removal tool body, things improved a small amount. I think this is when Extra Oro naming started- slightly better than the standard Extra bodies. This might be the era of the catalog excerpt?
Regina had other problems too, the original Oro chains were quite good, with radiused brass side plates, Regina SC stampings, later they created Extra Oro, no better than a typical Regina Extra chain, just brass outer plates.
That top of the line chain became the Record Oro with a slightly reduced side profile, radiused edge and the drilled side plates.
I had given up on them by the time the America series freewheels arrived.
It was off to Suntour ultra 6 and later 7.

SJX426 

Like this?
[IMG]Regina Oro 1Italy79 end, on Flickr[/IMG]

dadoflam

Yes - is that simply year of manufacture? (Seems almost too simple and logical)

pastorbobnlnh 

@T-Mar, the next time I'm in the Spa working on freewheels, I'll see if I can take two apart for side by side pictures.

Hmmmmmmm--- So the normal Regina freewheel sprockets were never in the correct positions?

JohnDThompson 

6-cog Regina freewheels started appearing in the late 60s, but didn't become common until the late 70s. FWIW, I've never been a big fan of Regina freewheels, due to the inordinately complex cog-mounting and easy to damage remover slots. This latter issue was finally addressed in the late 70s when Regina adopted the splined remover used by Zeus and Atom.

cadillacmike68

That's the scalare body, and I didn't think it was made back in 1972. Even so, if your 2nd to last cog is 18 or 19T then you do Not need a Scalare body. The regular body had a a 17T as the smallest on the two inner spots, making a 14-18T five speed possible or a 13-18T 6 speed possible, however a 12-17T 6 speed was not possible.

Scalares were developed to allow the 2nd to last cog to be Less than 17T, thus allowing for a 12-17T 6 speed close ratio freewheel.

There is no indication on the front of the freewheel, however the back is different.

This catalog shows the differences:

https://velobase.com/CatalogScans/Reg...ra_1970s_2.pdf

If you encounter a Scalare body that has anything larger than 18T on the top cog, it was messed with. Those were typically sold only as 13-17T 5 speed or 12-17T 6 speed.

Back then it was notched body only, which you already know.


As for the Oros, one rumor was that each body was spun by someone at Regina and the better sounding ones went into the "Oro" bin for the brass plated cogs.

smontanaro 

What John said about the slots. Never buy a Regina with buggered slots, make sure you have the correct remover on hand before you need it, and never ever try to use a SunTour two-pronged remover. BTDT.

John E

When you said 126mm and 5-speed freewheel in the same post, I started thinking "portacatena," but your frame is about 5 years too early for that.

I have seen Schwinns of your vintage with 126mm and 5 speeds, but they had the big pie plate spoke protector, as well as a high gear overshift shield built into the outboard end of the freewheel.

I run 126 x standard-spaced 6-speed on the 1959 Capo and the Bianchi, and 123 x ultra-spaced 6-speed on the Peugeot.

satbuilder 

I'm putting together a '72 Cinelli as well. I'll check the rear spacing on mine and let you know.

dadoflam

That's interesting information on the timing of 6 speed - it explains the spacing on my frame nicely - I always wondered. This is the Regina I am intending to fit to the 1972 project.

satbuilder 

FWIW, my '72 measures 122 mm.

T-Mar

Good intent but I'm wondering if any differences might not be apparent on old races that have not received regular lubrication.

T-Mar

My preferred remover is the two prong Dura-Ace with the collar.

Metacortex

An alternative tool for removing the older notched freewheels (Regina et al.) more easily and without damage is shown here: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post18536682

More about that here: 1960 Radiant Red Schwinn Continental | The Classic and Antique Bicycle Exchange

And here: WTB freewheel removal tool for JMoyne 4-speed freewheel | The Classic and Antique Bicycle Exchange

SteelCharlie

Yes - use a DA puller to get them off and then toss them in the trash. Regina freewheels suck goat balls all of them. I and everyone I knew of in the whole world was overjoyed when the sun came up and MIJ freewheels were there for every use.
You are certainly free to obsess about period correct and screw on one of those POS's but if you plan to ride it and want it to shift you may care to reconsider.
Last I checked this was not JMO but YMMV and besta luck
Charlie

pastorbobnlnh 

If you can remove the sprockets and put them in a vibratory tumbler/polishing machine over night, those OROs will polish up and be exceptional looking. Something like this: (scroll to near the bottom)



I can think of so many different and polite ways to say what you just said. Why do you have to be so snarky?