Today's frame ID thread
Picked this up on the way home from work today. I don't search CL for fixed gear bikes, but the lines on this frame seemed much more than it's current condition. Here's the specs and a few pics.
68mm (English) bottom bracket. S/N 91A3656 Seat post measures 27.2 mm and it's not stuck. Win. Shimano dropouts. Seat stays are welded to the seat lug, fastback style. Measures 58x58. So the 56 at the end of the S/N, isn't the frame size. http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...psy3s74ota.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...psrtxhx0ga.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...psvki7yyzs.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...psr8mxiry1.jpg http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...psv95tmzqg.jpg |
Don't know what it is, but it certainly looks promising!
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Yeah, I thought so too. I'm hoping someone will recognize some of the interesting features of this frame.
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Lol @ that brake!
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Originally Posted by LiquorLad
(Post 19555330)
Lol @ that brake!
I'm just glad nothing was hacked off the frame and I haven't found any dents. |
Not sure what it might be, but lots of things point to a fairly high-end frame.
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That bb shell cable guide is screaming at me right now. That with the chainstay bridge are ...
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@T-Mar might know from the serial number, but I KNOW that the way the seat stay is beveled "straight" while the chainstay is beveled "angled" was a clue for some brand in another mystery thread years back...can't recall what that brand was....for some reason "Panasonic" comes up from the depths, but I wouldn't put much faith in that. The shot-in fastback seat cluster is also a unique-ish take on the Brampton Victor style though I can't say I recognize that particular version from any certain brand, before. Really the serial number might be the best clue you have.
Afraid the chainstay bridge is a very common "spool" type that Gipiemme (as well as some others) made, probably an Italian bit but does that mean the FRAME is? Probably not. |
Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 19555836)
@T-Mar might know from the serial number, but I KNOW that the way the seat stay is beveled "straight" while the chainstay is beveled "angled" was a clue for some brand in another mystery thread years back...can't recall what that brand was....for some reason "Panasonic" comes up from the depths, but I wouldn't put much faith in that. The shot-in fastback seat cluster is also a unique-ish take on the Brampton Victor style though I can't say I recognize that particular version from any certain brand, before. Really the serial number might be the best clue you have.
Afraid the chainstay bridge is a very common "spool" type that Gipiemme (as well as some others) made, probably an Italian bit but does that mean the FRAME is? Probably not. |
T-Mar posted a thread full of serial number formats that might help you ID the maker, I forget the thread title so I can't find it for you.
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 19555836)
...the way the seat stay is beveled "straight" while the chainstay is beveled "angled" was a clue for some brand in another mystery thread years back...can't recall what that brand was....for some reason "Panasonic" comes up from the depths...
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
(Post 19556749)
Correct, again!
Doing some searches here too, and found the same thing. @T-Mar, any thoughts on the serial number format? I'm guessing "91" is the model year. The "A" could represent a month, as it does with other Japanese frames. |
1991 Panasonic is not a bad place to start. There's actually a thread on it on this forum, with the 1991 Panasonic brochure:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...k/Pana1800.jpg |
I was looking through there too, but I don't see anything with a matching seat stay cluster. I also checked '92, in case that 91 was just a year of production, but no joy.
Did any other noted manufacturers use the same angled/straight bevel design near the dropouts? |
Originally Posted by ecnewell
(Post 19557377)
I was looking through there too, but I don't see anything with a matching seat stay cluster. I also checked '92, in case that 91 was just a year of production, but no joy.
Did any other noted manufacturers use the same angled/straight bevel design near the dropouts? |
That seat cluster is really unique, as are the angled bevels on the ends of the chainstays. It may take a while, but those are going to make for a positive identification, eventually. ;)
It looks like it's almost certainly high end Japanese, but it could be something else, possibly American. |
if the fork is original, i would probably pull it, if not done already, and take a look for info on the steerer and crown. IME, manufacturers sometimes mark them up with stuff.
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Originally Posted by velomateo
(Post 19557075)
Doing some searches here too, and found the same thing.
@T-Mar, any thoughts on the serial number format? I'm guessing "91" is the model year. The "A" could represent a month, as it does with other Japanese frames. A for it being Panasonic (brand), it is similar to, but not an exact match for the Matsu****a (manufacturer) format. It is possible that they changed the format in the 1990s to provide a decade distinction in the format. They would not have been the first manufacturer to do this. Unfortunately, Panasonic abandoned the American market in 1989, so I have no 1990s serial numbers for comparison. Hopefully some European members with 1990s Panasonic will see this and post their S/N. While the fastback stay arrangement does not provide an exact match for any of the 1991 European models, for which there are on-line catalogs, it's possible that this arrangement was geared towards a different market or, more likely, is due to a contract build for a private label. The fork may be off the shelf item, so I'd be removing it and checking for a manufacturer logo and date code. That should provide some correlation, at least for the year. |
If it weren't for the Asian serial number format I would say it's Belgian. Italian looks, BSA-threaded BB, 27.2mm seatpost and Shimano drop-outs all fit that profile nicely.
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@T-Mar, thanks for your detailed reply. I'll be pulling the fork tomorrow and maybe it offer some help. Hopefully some of our Euro friends may have info regarding Panasonics after 1989 too.
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
(Post 19557659)
If it weren't for the Asian serial number format I would say it's Belgian. Italian looks, BSA-threaded BB, 27.2mm seatpost and Shimano drop-outs all fit that profile nicely.
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there are LOTS more Belgian brands besides Diamant (and Eddy Merckx), and non-fixie is just the guy to fill you in.
It's (Benelux) an interesting possibility so keep digging into the details (like the fork steerer) but I still feel this may more likely be plain Japanese. |
Originally Posted by ecnewell
(Post 19557377)
Did any other noted manufacturers use the same angled/straight bevel design near the dropouts?
Some Kalavinka road frames have the angled chainstay ends: http://www.kalavinka-bikes.com/image/road/road_0806.jpg http://www.kalavinka-bikes.com/image/road/road_0602.jpg http://www.kalavinka-bikes.com/image/road/road_2831.jpg http://www.kalavinka-bikes.com/image/road/road_2311.jpg as did Sannow (rest of the set here): https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3130/3...583ca4ff_z.jpg http://www.wildbike.co.kr/files/atta...2/CIMG5037.JPG http://active-s.com/blog/img/sannow_eminenza_1.jpg |
Originally Posted by MauriceMoss
(Post 19558762)
Some Kalavinka road frames have the angled chainstay ends:
http://www.kalavinka-bikes.com/image/road/road_0806.jpg http://www.kalavinka-bikes.com/image/road/road_0602.jpg http://www.kalavinka-bikes.com/image/road/road_2831.jpg http://www.kalavinka-bikes.com/image/road/road_2311.jpg as did Sannow (rest of the set here): https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3130/3...583ca4ff_z.jpg http://www.wildbike.co.kr/files/atta...2/CIMG5037.JPG http://active-s.com/blog/img/sannow_eminenza_1.jpg I will post up some additional photos later today, after I finish tearing down the bike. Lots of good leads. |
Originally Posted by velomateo
(Post 19559309)
Wow, that's interesting. Thanks so much for all the photos. This forum is such a great resource for this sort of thing.
http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...eat-stays.html |
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