Fiorelli Tandem Dilemma
05-07-17, 06:20 AM
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Fiorelli Tandem Dilemma
HI,
I am trying to find out information a Fiorelli tandem bike that I am working on for some friends. I have restored old Schwinn bikes but this one looks to be a challenge. It looks like it is a bit of a Frankenstein monster. It appears that this bike had more than one speed but it currently has a coaster brake and is a single speed. I am thinking this bike also had at least a front rim brake. Anyway I will post a few pictures, maybe someone can tell me more about this bike and possibly if there are any good sources of parts (like new seats, the back one is a killer).. Thanks in advance.
I am trying to find out information a Fiorelli tandem bike that I am working on for some friends. I have restored old Schwinn bikes but this one looks to be a challenge. It looks like it is a bit of a Frankenstein monster. It appears that this bike had more than one speed but it currently has a coaster brake and is a single speed. I am thinking this bike also had at least a front rim brake. Anyway I will post a few pictures, maybe someone can tell me more about this bike and possibly if there are any good sources of parts (like new seats, the back one is a killer).. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by bwendoloski; 05-07-17 at 07:44 AM.
05-07-17, 07:57 AM
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I think a couple of standard wide Brooks saddles would be cool on that bike.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
05-07-17, 12:03 PM
#3
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The use of the term "Frankenstein" bothers me. It looks to me like you don't have a clear idea of how the bike was conceived to be a bicycle in the first place. For example, what are the options for how braking was to be done? Do those systems correspond to the braze-ons and drillings you can see on the bike? Can you explain all of the features on the frame and what they are for? Until you can you can't see ways to use the frame to make a credible modern bike. Is there any on-line literature to consult? Could it have been for rambling or randonneuring?
Fiorelli was not a random bike house. For decades they made very capable bicycles all the way from tiny childrens' two-wheelers up to city bikes, commuters, sport bikes, racing style bikes, and high-level racing bikes used in the great races of Europe.
The frame looks odd to us, but it was designed for some purpose.
Not that you'll be able to find the "forgotten Fiorelli warehouse full of tandem parts," because if such a thing does not exist for Cinelli, it ain't gonna be found for Fiorelli. But Italian makers generally followed standard interfaces for their parts. For example, if the BB shell widths are 70 mm, most likely the thread fit the Italian standard. Therefore if true you can install any BB that satisfies that fit and threading standard.
What saddles did they use? I don't know, but (my guess is this frame is late '50s) it could have been something like a Schwinn, or like a sprung and wide Brooks, or ... something creative and unique made in Italy. Or it could have imitated ancient styles popular in the 1920s, but still in the parts bins in the '50s. But you need pictures and build lists. Or just perform frame measurements, find out what standards need to be satisfied, and choose something for your friends to use and wow over.
I would try to at least figure out what all the little features and bobs are for before going very far.
Fiorelli was not a random bike house. For decades they made very capable bicycles all the way from tiny childrens' two-wheelers up to city bikes, commuters, sport bikes, racing style bikes, and high-level racing bikes used in the great races of Europe.
The frame looks odd to us, but it was designed for some purpose.
Not that you'll be able to find the "forgotten Fiorelli warehouse full of tandem parts," because if such a thing does not exist for Cinelli, it ain't gonna be found for Fiorelli. But Italian makers generally followed standard interfaces for their parts. For example, if the BB shell widths are 70 mm, most likely the thread fit the Italian standard. Therefore if true you can install any BB that satisfies that fit and threading standard.
What saddles did they use? I don't know, but (my guess is this frame is late '50s) it could have been something like a Schwinn, or like a sprung and wide Brooks, or ... something creative and unique made in Italy. Or it could have imitated ancient styles popular in the 1920s, but still in the parts bins in the '50s. But you need pictures and build lists. Or just perform frame measurements, find out what standards need to be satisfied, and choose something for your friends to use and wow over.
I would try to at least figure out what all the little features and bobs are for before going very far.
05-07-17, 12:18 PM
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wrt dating - the company stopped doing those thimble tubular fork crowns in the early sixties so it cannot be later than that.
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wrt dating - the company stopped doing those thimble tubular fork crowns in the early sixties so it cannot be later than that.
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05-07-17, 12:24 PM
#5
Senior Member
From the pics I can see
It was designed for single-speed.
It was intended to have fenders.
Now it has a coaster brake, low gear ratio drive. There could be multiple gears in the rear axle as well, but we can't see the drive side.
Those ring brazeons could have been for hand-brake cables, or for taillight wires (any sign of a bottle or front wheel dyno having been there?).
It's hard to imagine even for a city-bike tandem there was no front brake - there should be some kind of mounting holes for a side-pull caliper at least.
I think the original wheel size was rather larger than what's on there now - something like 700c rims, rather than what looks like 559 rims.
It was designed for single-speed.
It was intended to have fenders.
Now it has a coaster brake, low gear ratio drive. There could be multiple gears in the rear axle as well, but we can't see the drive side.
Those ring brazeons could have been for hand-brake cables, or for taillight wires (any sign of a bottle or front wheel dyno having been there?).
It's hard to imagine even for a city-bike tandem there was no front brake - there should be some kind of mounting holes for a side-pull caliper at least.
I think the original wheel size was rather larger than what's on there now - something like 700c rims, rather than what looks like 559 rims.
05-07-17, 08:06 PM
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An image of the drive side might help discern the original configuration.
Personally, I think the rims may be too small in diameter.
I would even consider a rear drum brake.
Personally, I think the rims may be too small in diameter.
I would even consider a rear drum brake.
05-07-17, 08:59 PM
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I suspect that the wheels/tires were OEM 650B and of slightly narrower width. Braze ons would suggest a drum brake. Too bad we have no images of drop outs or crown to see indications of previous fittings 
. Stoker seats have always been a challenge for the stoker, tandems would be somewhat different if stokers designed them... Andy
. Stoker seats have always been a challenge for the stoker, tandems would be somewhat different if stokers designed them... Andy
05-08-17, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
The use of the term "Frankenstein" bothers me. It looks to me like you don't have a clear idea of how the bike was conceived to be a bicycle in the first place. For example, what are the options for how braking was to be done? Do those systems correspond to the braze-ons and drillings you can see on the bike? Can you explain all of the features on the frame and what they are for? Until you can you can't see ways to use the frame to make a credible modern bike. Is there any on-line literature to consult? Could it have been for rambling or randonneuring?
Fiorelli was not a random bike house. For decades they made very capable bicycles all the way from tiny childrens' two-wheelers up to city bikes, commuters, sport bikes, racing style bikes, and high-level racing bikes used in the great races of Europe.
The frame looks odd to us, but it was designed for some purpose.
Not that you'll be able to find the "forgotten Fiorelli warehouse full of tandem parts," because if such a thing does not exist for Cinelli, it ain't gonna be found for Fiorelli. But Italian makers generally followed standard interfaces for their parts. For example, if the BB shell widths are 70 mm, most likely the thread fit the Italian standard. Therefore if true you can install any BB that satisfies that fit and threading standard.
What saddles did they use? I don't know, but (my guess is this frame is late '50s) it could have been something like a Schwinn, or like a sprung and wide Brooks, or ... something creative and unique made in Italy. Or it could have imitated ancient styles popular in the 1920s, but still in the parts bins in the '50s. But you need pictures and build lists. Or just perform frame measurements, find out what standards need to be satisfied, and choose something for your friends to use and wow over.
I would try to at least figure out what all the little features and bobs are for before going very far.
Fiorelli was not a random bike house. For decades they made very capable bicycles all the way from tiny childrens' two-wheelers up to city bikes, commuters, sport bikes, racing style bikes, and high-level racing bikes used in the great races of Europe.
The frame looks odd to us, but it was designed for some purpose.
Not that you'll be able to find the "forgotten Fiorelli warehouse full of tandem parts," because if such a thing does not exist for Cinelli, it ain't gonna be found for Fiorelli. But Italian makers generally followed standard interfaces for their parts. For example, if the BB shell widths are 70 mm, most likely the thread fit the Italian standard. Therefore if true you can install any BB that satisfies that fit and threading standard.
What saddles did they use? I don't know, but (my guess is this frame is late '50s) it could have been something like a Schwinn, or like a sprung and wide Brooks, or ... something creative and unique made in Italy. Or it could have imitated ancient styles popular in the 1920s, but still in the parts bins in the '50s. But you need pictures and build lists. Or just perform frame measurements, find out what standards need to be satisfied, and choose something for your friends to use and wow over.
I would try to at least figure out what all the little features and bobs are for before going very far.
05-08-17, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
I suspect that the wheels/tires were OEM 650B and of slightly narrower width. Braze ons would suggest a drum brake. Too bad we have no images of drop outs or crown to see indications of previous fittings . Stoker seats have always been a challenge for the stoker, tandems would be somewhat different if stokers designed them... Andy
. Stoker seats have always been a challenge for the stoker, tandems would be somewhat different if stokers designed them... Andy
08-15-17, 12:50 PM
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Love these tandems.... I restored one a few years back and about to buy another... Here is the one I had from years ago, should have never sold it so beautiful.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131254637@N06/page7
not sure what other folks are saying but originally there are 26 inch rims on it, pull brakes front and back side pull... although the back brakes are a POA and needed these weird extensions. I never tried 700 wheels but they might work... maybe.
you can see it had fenders and lights etc. Coolest thing are the cranks which are beautiful and a campy tensioner real interesting.
these things where ALWAYS a three speed. cheap chrome plating probably is the reason why they rims were swapped.
Good luck and send a pic when its done!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131254637@N06/page7
not sure what other folks are saying but originally there are 26 inch rims on it, pull brakes front and back side pull... although the back brakes are a POA and needed these weird extensions. I never tried 700 wheels but they might work... maybe.
you can see it had fenders and lights etc. Coolest thing are the cranks which are beautiful and a campy tensioner real interesting.
these things where ALWAYS a three speed. cheap chrome plating probably is the reason why they rims were swapped.
Good luck and send a pic when its done!
08-15-17, 01:23 PM
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Personally I think the term "Frankenbike" gets used to too much and seem to be applied to any bime that does not have a single matching group from the headset to the cranks to cable guide clips.
As for this bike unless it had a 2 or 3 spd kick back type hub I agree that there is little visable evidence we can see of it being a multispeed.
If those loops are to support a brake cable it must be installed on the center stays otherwise it is would seem to be unsupported for a few feet.
I agree that the front wheel looks odd and may mean it currently has the wrong wheels. There also seems to be too much space for the current rear wheel too.
is there evidence that there was a brake mounted to either the fork or one of the stay bridges?
On a more important note, do the seat post and stems move freely? *If they are stuck you may be dead in the water.
PS I just noticed there is a loop back on the center seat stay. Would a bike in the '50s or '60s have a 2 speed hub and a integral drum brake?
As for this bike unless it had a 2 or 3 spd kick back type hub I agree that there is little visable evidence we can see of it being a multispeed.
If those loops are to support a brake cable it must be installed on the center stays otherwise it is would seem to be unsupported for a few feet.
I agree that the front wheel looks odd and may mean it currently has the wrong wheels. There also seems to be too much space for the current rear wheel too.
is there evidence that there was a brake mounted to either the fork or one of the stay bridges?
On a more important note, do the seat post and stems move freely? *If they are stuck you may be dead in the water.
PS I just noticed there is a loop back on the center seat stay. Would a bike in the '50s or '60s have a 2 speed hub and a integral drum brake?
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
Last edited by Bianchigirll; 08-15-17 at 01:28 PM.
10-05-20, 05:17 PM
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I just bought this bike!
Found this on Facebook market place and bought for 100, has a new cannondale seat and tires are ok... someone did a basic job on cotter pins but it’s a smooth ride!
