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1984 Peugeot 12 Vitesse - New Zealand

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1984 Peugeot 12 Vitesse - New Zealand

Old 06-14-17, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig
I missed the forged drop outs in the pics. That's generally a sign of a better frame but not always. Peugeot made a racing frame with forged drop outs and hi tensile steel. Still this could well be better than an entry level bike.
I'm still not completely convinced. A Facebook contact assures me "The better model set up as a racing model was made of Vitus steel tubing." Someone else told me that mine is Carbolise tubing which I understand is somewhat entry level. At the same time, still a good reliable frame for everyday use. Though I'm not encouraged by this Facebook comment "Some of the brazing on the locally made frames was not great, and i did see several that came apart at the lugs."!
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Old 06-14-17, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bstrummer
I'm still not completely convinced. A Facebook contact assures me "The better model set up as a racing model was made of Vitus steel tubing." Someone else told me that mine is Carbolise tubing which I understand is somewhat entry level. At the same time, still a good reliable frame for everyday use. Though I'm not encouraged by this Facebook comment "Some of the brazing on the locally made frames was not great, and i did see several that came apart at the lugs."!
Peugeot carbolite is just hi tensile steel. If it's hi tensile steel, you can tell by running your finger on the inside of the tubes and feeling for a seam. Also a seam is likely visible on the fork legs as well. Some good tubing sets are seamed but if your bike is seamed, it is likely hi tensile steel.
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Old 06-14-17, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig
Peugeot carbolite is just hi tensile steel. If it's hi tensile steel, you can tell by running your finger on the inside of the tubes and feeling for a seam. Also a seam is likely visible on the fork legs as well. Some good tubing sets are seamed but if your bike is seamed, it is likely hi tensile steel.
Thanks for this explanation which is bang on. I can confirm that there are seams in both the frame and along the forks.
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Old 06-14-17, 05:25 PM
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I'm amazed at how similar this bike looks, in paint and graphics, to my old 1983 PH10s. Of course, that was a lesser bike, with lesser components and no chrome fork, but the color/graphics appear to be dead on.
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Old 06-14-17, 08:54 PM
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Here's my '84 PH10LE for comparison (I bought it brand new in '85).
Winemann side pulls. Rigida 27x1 1/4 alloy clincher rims. Original pedals. FD and RD were replaced 30 years ago when I put a 3rd chain ring on the crank (32-48-52). Crank and arms were also replaced. I don't remember what the original crank set or derailleurs were. Helicomatic rear cog set (12-28). 25" frame. Carbon seat post (not the original). Saddle is a Trico gel (also not original). Don't remember what the hubs are and unfortunately the bike isn't at the house at the moment.
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Last edited by Jon T; 06-14-17 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 06-14-17, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bstrummer
"Some of the brazing on the locally made frames was not great, and i did see several that came apart at the lugs."!
I worked in a bike shop in the 1980s and the only ones I saw with frame integrity issues were the vitus980s

saw several that came apart at the bottom bracket .
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Old 06-15-17, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevindale
I'm amazed at how similar this bike looks, in paint and graphics, to my old 1983 PH10s. Of course, that was a lesser bike, with lesser components and no chrome fork, but the color/graphics appear to be dead on.
That certainly looks like the right colour. I had to squint to read the name 'Metallic Blue'. Is that from a US catalogue?
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Old 06-15-17, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon T
Here's my '84 PH10LE for comparison (I bought it brand new in '85).
Winemann side pulls. Rigida 27x1 1/4 alloy clincher rims. Original pedals. FD and RD were replaced 30 years ago when I put a 3rd chain ring on the crank (32-48-52). Crank and arms were also replaced. I don't remember what the original crank set or derailleurs were. Helicomatic rear cog set (12-28). 25" frame. Carbon seat post (not the original). Saddle is a Trico gel (also not original). Don't remember what the hubs are and unfortunately the bike isn't at the house at the moment.
Jon
A very nice 84, thanks for sharing. If I have my bike powder coated it will involve a colour change as the options are fairly limited. The blues shades are few and far from to the current colour, so white could be a good option.

I'd be interested to know if your bike has the Maillard rear hub system.
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Old 06-15-17, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 1simplexnut
I worked in a bike shop in the 1980s and the only ones I saw with frame integrity issues were the vitus980s

saw several that came apart at the bottom bracket .
That is reassuring thanks. Well, apart from the paintwork mine seems solid so I'm sure all will be well.
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Old 06-15-17, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by bstrummer
That certainly looks like the right colour. I had to squint to read the name 'Metallic Blue'. Is that from a US catalogue?
Yes. The website is embedded in the photo - lots of good reference material there, though the images are pretty low res.

Here's a better image (the top one) of what my bike looked like, since I don't have a good photo of mine. Complete with stem shifters and turkey wing levers, which at the time I rather liked.

I'm betting your frame is structurally sound. Shame that so much of the paint is damaged, since it's a very good looking bike. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it cleans up better than imagined.
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Old 06-15-17, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bstrummer

I'd be interested to know if your bike has the Maillard rear hub system.
That sounds familiar. I think it does but I'll need to check it for sure and get back to you.
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Old 06-15-17, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevindale
Yes. The website is embedded in the photo - lots of good reference material there, though the images are pretty low res.
Ah, you know I stared straight through the address while reading the details. Missed it completely! However, I stumbled upon the site while searching the net last night. You're right that it looks very similar to mine. I'm beginning to wonder if the chrome forks on mine were really meant to be there at all. There's every chance someone had the original ones changed. Then again the chrome forks are nothing special, just the same high-tensile steel as the frame. So it would have been just for looks.

Originally Posted by Kevindale
Here's a better image (the top one) of what my bike looked like, since I don't have a good photo of mine. Complete with stem shifters and turkey wing levers, which at the time I rather liked.
That is a lovely bike. I'm sure I was drawn to the colour when I bought mine and the decals work so well with it. By coincidence I found your bike photo last night while searching. :-) I notice there is one difference with the decals. Mine is missing what I assume is the Carbolite sticker at the top of the seat tube. Not sure why it isn't there unless they ran out of decals at the NZ factory. Or perhaps a case of deception though I can't see that working!

Originally Posted by Kevindale
I'm betting your frame is structurally sound. Shame that so much of the paint is damaged, since it's a very good looking bike. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it cleans up better than imagined.
The problem is the rust beneath the main decals on the upper tubing. To get at the rust I will have to destroy the decals which are such a feature of the bike.

One thing your photo and others have shown me is that the bikes look pretty nice without the chrome forks. I am considering having the frame and forks powder coated then a new set of decals added. Maybe even with the forks a different colour as you can get metallic silver and various shades of white. Perhaps even a blue frame with white forks would do for an unusual look though I'm sure that would really upset the purists!
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Old 06-15-17, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon T
That sounds familiar. I think it does but I'll need to check it for sure and get back to you.
Jon
Thanks Jon.
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Old 06-16-17, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bicycle Addict
I will take the gas pipe 10 speeds if he has any?
It turns out I'm wrong. They don't see any bike frames in their scrap sorry.
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Old 06-16-17, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bstrummer
I'd be interested to know if your bike has the Maillard rear hub system.
I checked it today and indeed, it does. The front hub is a Maillard as well. The QR skewers appear to be SPIDEL.
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Old 06-16-17, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bstrummer
The problem is the rust beneath the main decals on the upper tubing. To get at the rust I will have to destroy the decals which are such a feature of the bike.

One thing your photo and others have shown me is that the bikes look pretty nice without the chrome forks. I am considering having the frame and forks powder coated then a new set of decals added. Maybe even with the forks a different colour as you can get metallic silver and various shades of white. Perhaps even a blue frame with white forks would do for an unusual look though I'm sure that would really upset the purists!
I don't think anyone will fault you for not doing a 'correct' restoration of this bike. A good paint job alone would cost more than the bike is worth. I'd powdercoat it in a metallic blue that's as close as possible to the original color, including fork. Assuming you can get replacement decals that are the same color you have now, since they complement so well. If you have to get a different color decal set, then you might base the new color on what will look great with those decals.
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Old 06-16-17, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon T
I checked it today and indeed, it does. The front hub is a Maillard as well. The QR skewers appear to be SPIDEL.
Jon
Thanks Jon. It's good to know they have stood the test of time.
I've been looking at the plastic derailleur cable guides under the BB. There's a single tiny rivet holding it in place and a hole where I assume there should be another. That will have to come off if the bike is re-finished.
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Old 06-16-17, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevindale
I don't think anyone will fault you for not doing a 'correct' restoration of this bike. A good paint job alone would cost more than the bike is worth. I'd powdercoat it in a metallic blue that's as close as possible to the original color, including fork.
A motor mechanic friend of mine said these bikes were everywhere when he was growing up in Holland. He recommended the powder coating because that was how they were done at the factory. I assume that is correct.
I've received a quote of NZ$120 by a local firm to powder coat the frame. It goes up to NZ$180 if the colour I want isn't one they have in stock. Fortunately I can have the sandblasting done via a family contact which will keep the cost down. I like the idea of having the forks powder coated as I think there is something suspect about the chrome in the case of my bike.

Here are the colour options available to me. They don't have much in the way of bright colours and there's only one blue 'Electro Bluit' that looks like it might work. It is darker but has the metallic look which is in keeping. Other than that, I like the idea of an off-white...
Powder Coating Colours - Dulux

Originally Posted by Kevindale
Assuming you can get replacement decals that are the same color you have now, since they complement so well. If you have to get a different color decal set, then you might base the new color on what will look great with those decals.
I think I've found the correct decals. Agreed, something that compliments the graphics and vice versa would be best.
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Old 06-17-17, 06:20 PM
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Another piece of information has come to light while I was looking up how to remove the crank set. I wasn't sure of the model but now know that the bike has a Shimano Golden Arrow FC-S105 fluted crank set. According to information just found on VeloBase.com it is of excellent quality and rare. Also on a page about the similar FC-S125 they refer to an example of the fluted version FC-S105 with the 'HF' stamp (same as mine) indicating the year 1983. Here are the page links:

VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano FC-S105, 105 Golden Arrow (Fluted)

VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano FC-S125, 105 Golden Arrow

Now if only I could find the right size socket to get on with the job...
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Old 06-17-17, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bstrummer
Another piece of information has come to light while I was looking up how to remove the crank set. I wasn't sure of the model but now know that the bike has a Shimano Golden Arrow FC-S105 fluted crank set. According to information just found on VeloBase.com it is of excellent quality and rare. Also on a page about the similar FC-S125 they refer to an example of the fluted version FC-S105 with the 'HF' stamp (same as mine) indicating the year 1983. Here are the page links:

VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano FC-S105, 105 Golden Arrow (Fluted)

VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano FC-S125, 105 Golden Arrow

Now if only I could find the right size socket to get on with the job...
please tell me you have a proper crank puller tool !

The socket to undo the crank bolts is nothing special ? 14mm from memory ?

For what it is worth these bikes did not have had shimano 105 when new ( In NZ)
They all had a very basic stronglight crank set .
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Old 06-17-17, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 1simplexnut
please tell me you have a proper crank puller tool !
Ah yes, I was waiting for someone to mention the crank puller tool. At this stage no but my brother probably has one that is very well travelled.

Incidentally, I have been anticipating needing to buy the special tool for loosening the rear Maillard gear cassette. However, I discovered the whole thing is completely loose! I will of course need the tool to tighten it up properly.

Originally Posted by 1simplexnut
The socket to undo the crank bolts is nothing special ? 14mm from memory ?
That is what I was expecting either 14,15 or 16mm but none of the sockets from a borrowed metric set will fit. I think it is the design of the sockets, i.e. the outer diameter is too wide for the available space. Will try to find another set.

Originally Posted by 1simplexnut
For what it is worth these bikes did not have had shimano 105 when new ( In NZ)
They all had a very basic stronglight crank set .
That's good to know. I have been assuming it was retrofitted but wasn't 100% certain.
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Old 06-17-17, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bstrummer
Ah yes, I was waiting for someone to mention the crank puller tool. At this stage no but my brother probably has one that is very well travelled.

Incidentally, I have been anticipating needing to buy the special tool for loosening the rear Maillard gear cassette. However, I discovered the whole thing is completely loose! I will of course need the tool to tighten it up properly.


That is what I was expecting either 14,15 or 16mm but none of the sockets from a borrowed metric set will fit. I think it is the design of the sockets, i.e. the outer diameter is too wide for the available space. Will try to find another set.


That's good to know. I have been assuming it was retrofitted but wasn't 100% certain.

hmmmm if you have a helicomatic hub like the one pictured you sort of need the correct tool to tighten .
In saying that if you are careful and dont use too much pressure you can get away with multigrips. :=)
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Old 06-17-17, 11:04 PM
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A lot of collectors frown at powder coating bike frames as it causes a couple on "negatives".
1) Powder coating usually ends up going on much thicker than regular paint, so some of the lug and pantograph details on frames lose their edge definition.
2) If the powdercoater and owner of the bike do not collaborate carefully before the powder coating is done, to mask of certain areas on the frame with holes and threads that components mount to, powder coating will get into them and will make assembly of the threaded parts and holes where items go through or get pressed on to (bottom bracket, downtube shifters, waterbottle mounts, seatpost clamp bolt, headset, brake calipers and rear and front (if it has a French style mount with a threaded boss on the seat tube) derailleurs) very hard to do, as powder coating does not come off easily.

In this case, I think powder coating is a good alternative to paint as this Peugeot have very simple lug profiles (Most likely, medium point, Bocama, windowless) and most likely does not have any pantographing, so there is not that much detail on the frame to worry about getting covered by to much powdercoating. Just make sure that the frame is masked of carefully for components I mentioned above.
Only thing that might get affected on the bike will be it's market value to C&V collectors who just do not like powder coating on any C&V bikes.

Originally Posted by bstrummer
A motor mechanic friend of mine said these bikes were everywhere when he was growing up in Holland. He recommended the powder coating because that was how they were done at the factory. I assume that is correct.
I've received a quote of NZ$120 by a local firm to powder coat the frame. It goes up to NZ$180 if the colour I want isn't one they have in stock. Fortunately I can have the sandblasting done via a family contact which will keep the cost down. I like the idea of having the forks powder coated as I think there is something suspect about the chrome in the case of my bike.

Here are the colour options available to me. They don't have much in the way of bright colours and there's only one blue 'Electro Bluit' that looks like it might work. It is darker but has the metallic look which is in keeping. Other than that, I like the idea of an off-white...
Powder Coating Colours - Dulux


I think I've found the correct decals. Agreed, something that compliments the graphics and vice versa would be best.
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Old 06-17-17, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bstrummer
Thanks for this explanation which is bang on. I can confirm that there are seams in both the frame and along the forks.
Peugeot Carbolite forks from that era actually had a very narrow groove running along the backs of the fork legs. That's where the fork leg tubes were seam welded. The grooves and welds are very clean, most likely because it was not done by hand, but my machine.
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Old 06-17-17, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 1simplexnut
hmmmm if you have a helicomatic hub like the one pictured you sort of need the correct tool to tighten .
In saying that if you are careful and dont use too much pressure you can get away with multigrips. :=)
Thanks and yes I do have the helicomatic hub. The tool with the bottle opener has great appeal and might just be worth getting for that reason alone, although reasonably expensive via eBay from memory.
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