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Vintage Toe Straps - Question

Old 06-22-17, 10:24 AM
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Junkboyjude
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Vintage Toe Straps - Question

Im sure some of you have seen the Masi embossed toe straps on ebay. Does anyone know what year or years they would have been putting this "Brev. Masi" on them ? All of the toe straps on the 1975 era Masi's seem to have Bianchi Dino - Alfredo Binda on them. They also seem to command a higher price by 40 dollars or so. The Masi ones are listed for 60 dollar range and the non-masi embossed ones around 100. Am i missing something ? Wouldn't be new for me i generally stay confused. HA

Alfredo Binda Masi Leather Toe Straps Gold/Black NOS | eBay


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Old 06-22-17, 12:45 PM
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Are you asking about Italian Masi or California Masi?

No California Masi would have come with those, if that's what your asking. The Gran Criterium is a California Masi - 73 or later

Italian Alfredo Masi (son of Faliero) bikes are a different thing.
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Old 06-22-17, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Are you asking about Italian Masi or California Masi?

No California Masi would have come with those, if that's what your asking. The Gran Criterium is a California Masi - 73 or later

Italian Alfredo Masi (son of Faliero) bikes are a different thing.
Yes I am asking about the California Masi. Sorry if that wasn't clear, its the bike I own a 1975 California Masi. Also Falerio's son was named Alberto not Alfredo. Alberto continued in Italy to make the Italian Masi's as we all know.
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Old 06-22-17, 04:53 PM
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Oops, yeah, Alberto not Alfredo. I plead before coffee...

At any rate those straps have the Alberto Masi logo on them, and would look out of place on a Carlsbad Masi.

I don't know what came as OEM on 1975 bikes, but Christophe straps were more or less standard at the time, so that's one possibility. Binda straps were the hot rod upgrade, and they were better. The price was substantial even then, but they were comfortable, held well, and lasted a long time. I always ran Bindas on my Masi FWIW. The "Cinelli Binda Alfredo" straps would look right IMO.

My 78 actually came with Avocet clips and straps, but I think 78 was the first year for that company.

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Old 06-22-17, 05:01 PM
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One point about the linked straps, that seller pb bikes has some oh the highest prices on their listings you'll see on eBay. Just a heads up, they do have some interesting listings, but I have to give their things a pass. I just cannot afford them.

I understand your goals with your Masi, good for you if you do assemble all the correct things, my income is fixed and limited for the time being, so I watch the pennies carefully. I would love to do what you are pursuing, but reality can truly bite.

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Old 06-22-17, 05:35 PM
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Those straps seem to be of a later design - the Cinelli buttons are definitely so.

If you want Bindas, these are more period-correct:

NOS Alfredo Binda Bianchi Dino Leather Toe Straps Made In Italy | eBay

Are you looking for a particular color? Because I may have one or two NOS sets of PC Binda straps here. I'll look. And I wouldn't charge stupid Ebay prices ($80 for a pair of toe straps? WTF...).

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Old 06-22-17, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Those straps seem to be of a later design - the Cinelli buttons are definitely so.

If you want Bindas, these are more period-correct:

NOS Alfredo Binda Bianchi Dino Leather Toe Straps Made In Italy | eBay

Are you looking for a particular color? Because I may have one or two NOS sets of PC Binda straps here. I'll look. And I wouldn't charge stupid Ebay prices ($80 for a pair of toe straps? WTF...).

DD
Wow! Bindas with bearings??
Well greased too !
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Old 06-22-17, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Those straps seem to be of a later design - the Cinelli buttons are definitely so.

If you want Bindas, these are more period-correct:

NOS Alfredo Binda Bianchi Dino Leather Toe Straps Made In Italy | eBay

Are you looking for a particular color? Because I may have one or two NOS sets of PC Binda straps here. I'll look. And I wouldn't charge stupid Ebay prices ($80 for a pair of toe straps? WTF...).

DD
Not really looking for a particular color, i just saw the masi ones and was trying to figure out what the deal was with those compared to the other ones. If you dont mind taking a look i would appreciate it. I cant say for sure i can buy them, i am quickly running out of money for this round of locating parts. I will be going back to work in a month. I work over seas so i will be getting back on the parts hunt after i return. 35 days on 35 days off. i saw those straps, just 80 dollars holy moly !!!

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Old 06-22-17, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
One point about the linked straps, that seller pb bikes has some oh the highest prices on their listings you'll see on eBay. Just a heads up, they do have some interesting listings, but I have to give their things a pass. I just cannot afford them.

I understand your goals with your Masi, good for you if you do assemble all the correct things, my income is fixed and limited for the time being, so I watch the pennies carefully. I would love to do what you are pursuing, but reality can truly bite.

Bill
I feel you Bill. I am just about to the end of what I can spend on parts for this round. I finally broke down and bought a stand for the bike. It fell over yesterday I have been looking at the pb bikes stuff. Prices are high. I am just about to the point where i can start putting it together to ride. I have some rims coming but Im just going to ride the rims and tires i have now, cheap clinchers but they are round and roll
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Old 06-22-17, 09:14 PM
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Hmm, the observant among you may have noticed that in the pic I posted yesterday of my Tommasini at the office the left strap was broken. You see, it broke on my ride in. So last night I replaced it and today I rode to work with one Christofe and one Lapize. I seem to have survived and the style police never noticed.

Some things aren't worth worrying about.
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Old 06-23-17, 03:32 AM
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Has anyone here every had a serious crash they would blame on their toe straps?
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Old 06-23-17, 05:59 AM
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The straps that DD linked would be a nice addition, if they weren't so darned expensive. I am using plain white Christophe straps on both bikes, the one pair of vintage natural color Bindas I have are just being used for holding a spare sew up while its in my jersey's center back pocket.

I am not sure that many of the Cali. Masi ever saw a "Masi" branded toe strap, of if such even existed back in the day. One of our Learned Elders could fill us in on that question I cannot recall seeing any brand labeled straps for that matter, save the small Alfredo Binda, Lapize, or Christophe. Maybe "Schwinn Approved" was out there

If its just part of what you see as how this dream bike should be, go for which ever ones you want. Its your hard earned pennies paying for this, and it needs to fulfill your needs and wishes(dreams.)

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Old 06-23-17, 07:14 AM
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I recently picked up a set of these MKS straps from Boulder Bicycle. They're laminated leather like the Binda straps, but much more affordable:



MKS FitA Tan Toe Strap Pair - importer overstock sale!
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Old 06-23-17, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I recently picked up a set of these MKS straps from Boulder Bicycle. They're laminated leather like the Binda straps, but much more affordable:

MKS FitA Tan Toe Strap Pair - importer overstock sale!
Great choice

Basically all wear parts; tires, freewheel, wires, cable housing, chain, straps, gum hoods, bar tape and grease and rims can also sometimes be included are preferably selected from modern or cheaper equivalents for any bike that will be used and will still look and work just as good as the old parts. For a period correct wall queen of museum quality, well that's a very different story.
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Old 06-23-17, 07:43 AM
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A couple points:

There were two types of Binda Straps: Regular and Extra. The Extra were laminated, the Regular were plain leather. Many people, myself included, strongly preferred the Regular Binda straps. They held your feet in better and were more comfortable than the Extras. The very slight stretchiness of natural leather was an advantage. IME the laminated ones slipped slightly, and this lead to needing to keep them tighter on climbs, which tended to cut into your feet. Of course, this was a matter of personal preference. Some found the laminated straps useful.

AFA cost, BITD, they were a couple bucks more than the Christophe, but you got a better buckle and thicker leather, and they lasted longer. The Extra were considerably more, and for me were not an improvement. At any rate, they cost was no where near what ebay'ers are charging these days, even accounting for inflation. Personally I would never pay so much for a consumable item. I always consider cost/benefit, and therefore in 2017 would probably put Christophe straps on there. But, if you have a hankering to make it exactly showroom floor OEM stock and can afford it, have at it. I will enjoy the pictures.

Thirdly, branded stuff was not big then in general. (unlike now!!!) There was actually a danger of a logo getting you banned from a race, as amateurism was strictly enforced. I remember a race official making everyone cut the brand logos off their shoes before a jr's race because they some were more than 1/2" tall.

I guess that's 3...
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Old 06-23-17, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
A couple points:

There were two types of Binda Straps: Regular and Extra. The Extra were laminated, the Regular were plain leather. Many people, myself included, strongly preferred the Regular Binda straps. They held your feet in better and were more comfortable than the Extras. The very slight stretchiness of natural leather was an advantage. IME the laminated ones slipped slightly, and this lead to needing to keep them tighter on climbs, which tended to cut into your feet. Of course, this was a matter of personal preference. Some found the laminated straps useful.

AFA cost, BITD, they were a couple bucks more than the Christophe, but you got a better buckle and thicker leather, and they lasted longer. The Extra were considerably more, and for me were not an improvement. At any rate, they cost was no where near what ebay'ers are charging these days, even accounting for inflation. Personally I would never pay so much for a consumable item. I always consider cost/benefit, and therefore in 2017 would probably put Christophe straps on there. But, if you have a hankering to make it exactly showroom floor OEM stock and can afford it, have at it. I will enjoy the pictures.

Thirdly, branded stuff was not big then in general. (unlike now!!!) There was actually a danger of a logo getting you banned from a race, as amateurism was strictly enforced. I remember a race official making everyone cut the brand logos off their shoes before a jr's race because they some were more than 1/2" tall.

I guess that's 3...
LOL got ya. Mine you would never be a museum wall hanger, the paint isnt in good enough condition for that, plus my goal is to ride the bike. No one to look at it here but me. Just trying to learn all i can about the history of the bike. I have spent some money on rims and probably paid way to much for a couple of things but when you are impatient as i most times am that happens. I did finally brake down and buy a stand for the bike, it and I are much happier now. Thanks to all for taking the time to pass along your knowledge and experience.
sincerely Jude A
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Old 06-23-17, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
A couple points:

There were two types of Binda Straps: Regular and Extra. The Extra were laminated, the Regular were plain leather. Many people, myself included, strongly preferred the Regular Binda straps. They held your feet in better and were more comfortable than the Extras. The very slight stretchiness of natural leather was an advantage. IME the laminated ones slipped slightly, and this lead to needing to keep them tighter on climbs, which tended to cut into your feet. Of course, this was a matter of personal preference. Some found the laminated straps useful.

AFA cost, BITD, they were a couple bucks more than the Christophe, but you got a better buckle and thicker leather, and they lasted longer. The Extra were considerably more, and for me were not an improvement. At any rate, they cost was no where near what ebay'ers are charging these days, even accounting for inflation. Personally I would never pay so much for a consumable item. I always consider cost/benefit, and therefore in 2017 would probably put Christophe straps on there. But, if you have a hankering to make it exactly showroom floor OEM stock and can afford it, have at it. I will enjoy the pictures.

Thirdly, branded stuff was not big then in general. (unlike now!!!) There was actually a danger of a logo getting you banned from a race, as amateurism was strictly enforced. I remember a race official making everyone cut the brand logos off their shoes before a jr's race because they some were more than 1/2" tall.

I guess that's 3...
Excellent information. Most of this kind of knowledge is hidden and can only be acquired if you where there.

Please write more. Do you have a blog?
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Old 06-23-17, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 1987 View Post
Excellent information. Most of this kind of knowledge is hidden and can only be acquired if you where there.

Please write more. Do you have a blog?

Yes sir !! As i have said the knowledge base here is invaluable !! I ask a lot of questions, people prolly say "here we go again" lol. I think it behooves us to learn all we can though
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Old 06-23-17, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Junkboyjude View Post
I ask a lot of questions, people prolly say "here we go again" lol.
Nah - the only ones that get that sort of treatment are the ones who ask questions, get answers and then the person asking questions/challenges every answer. Those people give me a pain.

Btw, I checked and I have depleted my stock of Bindas. Turns out I'd used the last pair (mustard, non-laminated) only a few weeks ago when I put pedals/clips/straps on a bike I had up for sale (it's not anymore). Sorry

From your posts, it seemed you wanted to go as close to PC as possible. Now that I know you aren't necessarily going that route, I'd suggest finding some simple Christophe straps on Ebay, or maybe a local shop has them. I use them on at least half my bikes, plus I can still find them locally in two shops for about $18 a pair. Can't beat that with a stick.

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Old 06-23-17, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by WillBradley1 View Post
Has anyone here every had a serious crash they would blame on their toe straps?
Yes, pulled my foot out in a sprint.


The Brev Masi straps seen on ebay recently are to my observation a replica of a part that was never offered way back.
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Old 06-23-17, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
A couple points:

There were two types of Binda Straps: Regular and Extra. The Extra were laminated, the Regular were plain leather. Many people, myself included, strongly preferred the Regular Binda straps. They held your feet in better and were more comfortable than the Extras.
I guess that's 3...

Binda Extras back in the day. Foot security after that update, regular for holding the spare tire under the saddle.
The Extras only came in off white. Later Binda Supers are better than regular, but not as good.
The best Bindas had the brass rollers, they moved away from those decades ago unfortunately.
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Old 06-23-17, 12:08 PM
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What DD said, re: the Binda Straps v. Christophes. I'm certain that the Christophe straps will do just fine, they have pretty much held on to their quality level, not quite at the original Binda laminated level, but they should serve you very well.

I looked all over for some affordable Binda last February and the couppe of places listing them all wanted a sky high price for these current examples, and I have some concerns about them also. I decided the Christophe were just fine, and they have been great so far. My big gun boats for feet can really try straps, and I ride rain or shine. No problems with them.

I'd say to let the savings help you with other more important items that need the original equipment cache' . Everything you have done so far is really super, the parts have been all first class and reasonably accurate for the bike and its period.

Someone here with lots more knowledge about these C&V Bikes from the 70s and 80s, than I will ever have, said he looked for parts and components that would have been readily been available and most likely been used in the same application. I have let that guide my searches and purchases for both of my bikes.

@1987, +1 for salamandrine is someone to listen to, its simply cubic experience and learning as much as you can dig up. I read the threads here and at Velobase, Classic Rendezvous, Classic Lightweights, as well as anything Google comes up with in a search. Its habbit forming, Drillium Dude is another of our learned "not so elderly" elders here, just don't tell him I said so.

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Old 06-23-17, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
There were two types of Binda Straps: Regular and Extra. The Extra were laminated, the Regular were plain leather.
There was also the Binda "Super" strap. IIRC, the "Extra" straps had the nylon layer laminated onto one face of the strap, while the "Super" strap had the nylon layer sandwiched between two layers of leather. It may have been the other way around. I have examples of both here, but I can't remember which was which. It's hell getting old.
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Old 06-23-17, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Are you asking about Italian Masi or California Masi?

No California Masi would have come with those, if that's what your asking. The Gran Criterium is a California Masi - 73 or later

Italian Alfredo Masi (son of Faliero) bikes are a different thing.
There are Italian Gran Criteriums. Faliero made them in Italy for two years or so before moving to California and Alberto made some off and on (although I don't think he was supposed to or at least not to sell them in the US). I have an Italian Gran Criterium from '72.

As some others have said toe straps are kind of a consumable so I don't personally think you have to be too PC, especially on a rider. I get Zefal/Cristophe toe straps off of Amazon. Lots of colors for around $10-15.
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Old 06-23-17, 10:24 PM
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Bob Hovey's site does a good job of monitoring the Gran Criteriums from both Italy and the USA.
I have a Milan made GC from 1970. Ken Denny will claim 1969. The GC continued in Italy even after Carlsbad production started. Surprises turn up as to how long the model continued, it appears even after the Prestige was introduced. The surprise to me were Italian GC's with Alberto's signature transfer.
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