Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Schwinn experts: help ID without pics a "Paramount"?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Schwinn experts: help ID without pics a "Paramount"?

Old 07-08-17, 11:10 AM
  #1  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
Thread Starter
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,932
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 989 Post(s)
Liked 507 Times in 415 Posts
Schwinn experts: help ID without pics a "Paramount"?

I know this is a tough nut without pics, but I promise to take some and add them in the next couple days, but since we have such a depth of Schwinn Paramount knowledge from the likes of @Metacortex and @Scooper, this may be so easy that pics will just be gravy...here's the story:
Friend of mine has a commuter he built up with an orange (tangerine metallic) painted frame that has replacement all-chrome fork, and
-appears to be original paint and graphics/decals including the off white panel on seat tube with world champ stripes
-NO chrome on the Nervex Pro lugs or long Campy dropouts, no chrome anywhere but that fork.
-serial number stamped on the curve of the NDS dropout, number to come with pics
-Reynolds 531 decal (looks OEM) yellow "lightweights decal" (as seen on Super Sports, etc.), the standard "Schwinn" logo on both sides of the down tube but NO "Paramount" either there or on the top tube...has the typical metal headbadge.
-no braze-ons, looks very 1970s, has a slightly longer stay cap then seen on many pics I've viewed of Paramounts from this era.
-owner says he thinks it's a "Super Sport" and one tick down from Paramount, but aside from the lack of chrome, I see no difference. Being unfamiliar with Schwinns (tho i did do some research including this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...paramount.html) I am stumped, but curious.
So, until pics arrive...can anybody tell "what am I"?

The bad-bad-bad news is that the reason i was viewing his frame at all was cause he got in a bad jam trying to remove a stuck and snapped-off seat post so it was at ANOTHER friends shop and has suffered both seat tube damage (not terminal) and some slight paint damage ...a shame but that effing seat post is finally OUT!
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 07-08-17, 11:32 AM
  #2  
Kactus 
Senior Member
 
Kactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,828

Bikes: 1962 Schwinn Paramount P12, 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13-9

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 19 Posts
The SN will tell a lot more. AFAIK, Paramounts were the only ones that came with Nervex Pro lugs. An early 60's P-12 would not have chrome lugs or socks except on special order.
__________________
Life... is a state of mind.
Kactus is offline  
Old 07-08-17, 11:53 AM
  #3  
trainman999
Full Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 404

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked 140 Times in 79 Posts
Might be an 81 or 82 Superior. does the head badge say Paramount? Check the pictures here.
Schwinn Paramount Registry Database
trainman999 is offline  
Old 07-08-17, 12:45 PM
  #4  
Metacortex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,371

Bikes: Fillet-brazed Schwinns

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
Might be an 81 or 82 Superior.
+1 Need to see pics, plus the frame and badge numbers. For reference here is the '81 Superior catalog page showing the bike in Pearl Orange:

Metacortex is offline  
Old 07-08-17, 06:55 PM
  #5  
Piff 
Senior Member
 
Piff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 986
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 449 Post(s)
Liked 211 Times in 134 Posts
Dang that 81 superior looks like a pretty sweet sport tourer, maybe i need to start looking around for one...
Piff is offline  
Old 07-08-17, 08:46 PM
  #6  
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 14,073
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 68 Times in 55 Posts
Did Paramounts ever come with 'lightweight' decals?
miamijim is offline  
Old 07-08-17, 08:53 PM
  #7  
Kactus 
Senior Member
 
Kactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,828

Bikes: 1962 Schwinn Paramount P12, 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13-9

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 19 Posts
It does kinda' sound like a Superior (I forgot about the Superior with Nervex Pro lugs), but did they ever come with the white banner decal on the seat tube?
__________________
Life... is a state of mind.
Kactus is offline  
Old 07-08-17, 09:33 PM
  #8  
Metacortex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,371

Bikes: Fillet-brazed Schwinns

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Kactus View Post
It does kinda' sound like a Superior (I forgot about the Superior with Nervex Pro lugs), but did they ever come with the white banner decal on the seat tube?
They did not, but decals can easily be changed, more easily than paint anyway. Those with the white banner also had the Schwinn Paramount name on the down tube, but perhaps the Paramount portion was worn off or the decals have been replaced. I'm not sure what the OP means about no braze-ons, but I believe the only Paramounts with the white banner decal on the seat tube and no top tube cable braze-ons was the '71-'73 Paramount P13:



However none of those years were available with a "tangerine" paint. In that case it may be a repaint with any sort of decals added. Without detailed pics as well as frame and (if present) badge numbers all of this is speculation as so far it doesn't appear to match anything 100% correctly.
Metacortex is offline  
Old 07-08-17, 09:49 PM
  #9  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
Thread Starter
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,932
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 989 Post(s)
Liked 507 Times in 415 Posts
I will be taking pix tomorrow and using a new (no more photobucket) hoster but I think the Superior looks pretty close, except for the lack of the word "SUPERIOR" on the top tube and the placement of the 531 decal, but all will be revealed (and corrected if I mis-remembered) in the next days. meantime. THANKS for the feedback, I think we'll get this solved pretty quick...and did I mention that the Frame and Fork (with the gouged seat tube) may be for sale soon, I think it's a 58cm.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 09:04 AM
  #10  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
Thread Starter
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,932
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 989 Post(s)
Liked 507 Times in 415 Posts
Yep, due to my faulty memory several of the detals I was sure about were NOT correct: no off-white panel, there ARE some braze-ons (just not the ones I was looking for) and even though the model name is missing on the top tube, this is most certainly a SUPERIOR (and maybe I can get some pix attached without the interference of photobucket!) These pix are selected as the least crap from the crappy cell phone series I took, but in case you can't make it out the serial number is 13431 and the paint damage is shown at the seatlug but the shot of the seat tube gouge was too bad to share. I'll take more with a real camera, later.
In any case, THANKS for the help, all you who chimed in!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
P1010978.jpg (96.8 KB, 189 views)
File Type: jpg
P1010979.jpg (97.6 KB, 190 views)
File Type: jpg
P1010981.jpg (97.5 KB, 189 views)
File Type: jpg
P1010982.jpg (95.4 KB, 190 views)
File Type: jpg
P1010980.jpg (93.4 KB, 192 views)
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 09:34 AM
  #11  
3speedslow
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,113

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1881 Post(s)
Liked 818 Times in 519 Posts
Looks nice to me!
3speedslow is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 12:27 PM
  #12  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 48 Posts
Here's some information on the 1981-1982 Superiors posted several years ago by Bob Hufford. They were nicknamed "Baby Paramounts."

Originally Posted by Bob Hufford
The early '80s Schwinn Superiors were built using frames and frame components (Nervex or Prugnat lugs, Campagnolo fork ends -- some had Tange forks -- and Reynolds 531 tubing) that were left over after Schwinn shut down the Paramount area of the Chicago plant (due to quality issues) in 1979. They were built by a Schwinn sub-contractor in Racine, Wisconsin (Don Mainland). Don (and partner Roger Nelson) had a machine shop that built about 40% of the Paramount frames during the '70s bike boom. I've heard (but have not confirmed) that the chromed '70s Paramount frames were all built by Don as the brazing was better (less visible after chroming) than those that were done "in house". The Schwinn Paramounts came back in late 1980 as full custom bikes built at the new Paramount factory in Waterford, Wisconsin -- what has evolved into Waterford Precision Cycles (separated from the Schwinn company at the 1993 bankruptcy and co-owned by Richard Schwinn).

There were at least three different colors (orange, gun-metal-grey, and black) and a variety of decal styles. They were equipped with Campagnolo GS (Gran Sport) -- 2nd tier Campy -- drivetrain components and Japanese seatposts, bars and stems.

A
Superior frame is in all respects (save decals and chrome lugs) a pre-1980 Paramount frame. For 1980 though, they stepped the Paramount frames way up a notch (the bikes were full customs and listed for nearly $3K).

Don Mainland and Roger Nelson in Racine, WI, had built many of the chrome plated early seventies Paramount framesets and were renown for their beautiful brazing and clean-up.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 12:40 PM
  #13  
Metacortex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,371

Bikes: Fillet-brazed Schwinns

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
...in case you can't make it out the serial number is 13431
That is almost certainly an '81 or '82 Superior. The serial number does correspond to the '81-'83 Superior format (see the others listed at bottom of the Paramount Registry page), however other than the first digit ("1" in this case indicating the year of frame production) I can't seem to decipher the others. What is most important is that the 4-digit number stamped in the headbadge will indicate the day the bike was built, and in this case that might prove it to be an early '82 model.
Metacortex is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 03:22 PM
  #14  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
Thread Starter
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,932
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 989 Post(s)
Liked 507 Times in 415 Posts
Originally Posted by Metacortex View Post
That is almost certainly an '81 or '82 Superior. The serial number does correspond to the '81-'83 Superior format (see the others listed at bottom of the Paramount Registry page), however other than the first digit ("1" in this case indicating the year of frame production) I can't seem to decipher the others. What is most important is that the 4-digit number stamped in the headbadge will indicate the day the bike was built, and in this case that might prove it to be an early '82 model.
Only one problem: the metal headbadge I was certain that I saw was another figment of my poor powers of observation/memory" there IS none!
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 04:55 PM
  #15  
3speedslow
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,113

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1881 Post(s)
Liked 818 Times in 519 Posts
It is orange though!
3speedslow is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 05:23 PM
  #16  
Metacortex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,371

Bikes: Fillet-brazed Schwinns

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 12 Posts
That's too bad about the badge. So far my best guess on the serial no. format is Yww## where Y is the last digit of the model year (1 = 1981), ww = week of the year (34 = August 17-23, 1981) and ## was the sequential number built that week. If anybody knows better please chime in.

Last edited by Metacortex; 07-10-17 at 05:26 PM.
Metacortex is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 06:01 PM
  #17  
3speedslow
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,113

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1881 Post(s)
Liked 818 Times in 519 Posts
Another problem. Looks like the left seat stay cap has separated from the seat stay. Maybe it's a paint crack.
3speedslow is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 06:22 PM
  #18  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,489

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 48 Posts
Some pictures of an early eighties 25" Superior HERE.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 07-11-17, 09:02 AM
  #19  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
Thread Starter
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,932
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 989 Post(s)
Liked 507 Times in 415 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post
Another problem. Looks like the left seat stay cap has separated from the seat stay. Maybe it's a paint crack.
I'll have to check that over, yes I see it in the pic but did not notice it in person (but then I did not notice a LOT) but suspect it's not as bad as the pic makes out. In any case the real wound is to the seat tube and that plus the paint damage to the seat lug will drive some people away from considering this frame. My friend who works in a shop says that the seat tube problem would not scare him off, especially if this was going to continue its use as a utility bike and not a show-queen. He'd says a long seat post in there, plenty of grease THIS time, and he'd ride away.
It's a 23" C-T and 22.5" C-C and has a 22" Top Tube, C-C
More pix if and when it's ready for selling.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 09-24-21, 08:17 PM
  #20  
thinktubes 
weapons-grade bolognium
 
thinktubes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Across the street from Chicago
Posts: 5,937

Bikes: Battaglin Cromor, Ciocc Designer 84, Schwinn Superior 1981

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 845 Post(s)
Liked 1,496 Times in 638 Posts
4 years and 10000 miles later...

thinktubes is offline  
Old 09-24-21, 09:04 PM
  #21  
zukahn1
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 8,681

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 688 Times in 333 Posts
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Did Paramounts ever come with 'lightweight' decals?
Not that I know off the lightweight decal was only on few early 80's mid level Schwinn Road and BMX models most of which weren't actually light.
zukahn1 is offline  
Old 09-25-21, 11:06 AM
  #22  
bikemike73 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 658

Bikes: 1973 Schwinn Sports Tourer plus a " few" more :)

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 98 Posts
BEAUTIFUL BIKE !!!!

Thanks for the update !!!

I have never seen a water bottle holder in the back of the seat !!!

Pretty Cool !!!!!!
bikemike73 is offline  
Likes For bikemike73:
Old 09-25-21, 11:14 AM
  #23  
obrentharris 
Senior Member
 
obrentharris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Point Reyes Station, California
Posts: 3,899

Bikes: Indeed!

Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1158 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times in 681 Posts
Originally Posted by thinktubes View Post
4 years and 10000 miles later...

Now there's a story with a happy ending!

Brent
obrentharris is offline  
Likes For obrentharris:
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Brittster
Classic & Vintage
42
05-30-16 01:15 PM
Chris_in_Miami
Classic & Vintage
22
02-24-12 02:15 PM
r2bbrak
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
11
07-25-11 09:23 AM
ohjonnybegoode
Classic & Vintage
7
03-30-10 11:40 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.