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-   -   Anybody familiar with a Raleigh Royale? (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1114221-anybody-familiar-raleigh-royale.html)

sykerocker 07-10-17 08:23 AM

Anybody familiar with a Raleigh Royale?
 
Latest project in the shop in a Raleigh ten-speed which, according to the label on the top tube is called the Royale. I'm completely unfamiliar with the model, although I'm guessing it's somewhere within the '63-66 vintage. Sorry I didn't take any pictures before tearing into it, but I'll give as complete a description as I can. Decals are the classic Raleigh pre/early-Bike Book font.

Classic Raleigh lightweight frame, no tubing marking, but I'm guessing by the shadow of a missing label on the seat tube it might be 2030. Kind of a relaxed head tube angle, headlight boss on the right fork leg, like my old Gran Sport. Classic Raleigh dark green with that cute overstrap on the rear upper stays at the seat post. Gold fenders, match the contrasting seat tube color well enough to make me believe it's original on the bike. Unfortunately the rear fender is broken and half missing.

Crankset is cottered half-step, not unlike my Lenton Gran Prix. Derailleurs are Simplex Prestige(-ish), but unlike any 70's era Prestige I've seen. The enclosures for the springs on the rear are cut out at the top and bottom, with some kind of cardboard-ish material covering the springs themselves. Well the bottom one is intact, the top one is shredded and gone. Derailleur is black Delrin. Front derailleur is like every other Simplex pushrod mechanism of the time period I've seen, except that the front strap and button covering the pushrod tube are black, not the usual red/silver or silver/silver.

Brakes are GB center pulls. Steel rims, no quick releases, haven't gotten to cleaning the hubs yet to see the brand.

Anyone got any ideas what I have here? I'm guessing at the years range because I haven't seen the model in either the '62 or '67 catalogs.

Alloy bars and stem, both typical of the time period.

T-Mar 07-10-17 08:56 AM

We had a Royale in Canada but it didn't have the light mount and was late 1970s to early 1980s, with SunTour. FWIW, it was below the Record.

There is the often repeated story (and associated photo) of how Frank Donnelly and Kevin O'Donovan of Raleigh and Carlton, visited the Simplex factory and decided to order the Prestige based on it's ability to twist 90 degrees, without breaking. Given that this reportedly happened in 1967,I would think that this would be the earliest date for for OEM Simplex derailleurs on Raleigh. Regardless, the Raleigh serial number formats are well established, so there should be little, if any, confusion on year.

The fact that bicycle has been torn down does not prevent pictures from aiding with the identification. You may have to take a few more pictures, so that we can assess the major components for clues, but I'm pretty sure most of the members could envision what it would look like assembled, from frame and components photos.

3speedslow 07-10-17 08:56 AM

Sounds interesting! Any idea of the GB model brakes? Waiting to read what the hubs are. If pics are possible, great!

Sounds like it has a mix between my 62 Gran Sport and early Rudge Rapide 10 speeds

sykerocker 07-10-17 10:21 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19708115)
Sounds interesting! Any idea of the GB model brakes? Waiting to read what the hubs are. If pics are possible, great!

Sounds like it has a mix between my 62 Gran Sport and early Rudge Rapide 10 speeds

Just cleaned the front caliper up. Model 88 according to what's stamped on the caliper arm.

Serial number will be checked once I at least get the wheels off the bike My restoration work is usually take one part at a time off the complete bike, clean it, bag it, put it in the hamper, then on to the next. This way I'm never flooded with a mass of dirty old parts all over the place. Will finish the brakes today, then the fenders come off, then the wheels. Have to set up my oxalic acid tray first.

The whole feel of the bike is early/mid-60's. The components are more modern than my Lenton, but still a bit primitive looking compared to the usual Bike Boom stuff.

sykerocker 07-10-17 10:23 AM


Originally Posted by T-Mar (Post 19708114)
We had a Royale in Canada but it didn't have the light mount and was late 1970s to early 1980s, with SunTour. FWIW, it was below the Record.

There is the often repeated story (and associated photo) of how Frank Donnelly and Kevin O'Donovan of Raleigh and Carlton, visited the Simplex factory and decided to order the Prestige based on it's ability to twist 90 degrees, without breaking. Given that this reportedly happened in 1967,I would think that this would be the earliest date for for OEM Simplex derailleurs on Raleigh. Regardless, the Raleigh serial number formats are well established, so there should be little, if any, confusion on year.

The fact that bicycle has been torn down does not prevent pictures from aiding with the identification. You may have to take a few more pictures, so that we can assess the major components for clues, but I'm pretty sure most of the members could envision what it would look like assembled, from frame and components photos.

The bike has a very Record feel to it. The hubs are definitely Record level (high flange, three piece steel rear, low flange front, with very Raleigh style acorn axle nuts), likewise the rims. But in Raleigh parlance, that I'm used to anyway, Simplex meant at least a half step above bottom of the line, which would use Huret Allvit.

3speedslow 07-10-17 11:01 AM

Velobase puts the 88 brakes at 69-70, a one year production run. If original that could very well be the answer.

I like your approach and care shown to a customers bike!

dweenk 07-10-17 12:07 PM

7 Attachment(s)
I have a Royale as well. The original owner bought it in Brabant, Belgium. The serial # is MG17365. Oddly it has forks decaled BSA. Here are a few as found photos:

3speedslow 07-10-17 12:39 PM

@dweenk Very nice! I like the blue colour. The Belgium plate is cool, I have one on my Belgique.

sykerocker 07-10-17 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19708509)
Velobase puts the 88 brakes at 69-70, a one year production run. If original that could very well be the answer.

I like your approach and care shown to a customers bike!

You'll be amused to know that the pivot bolts on the brake calipers are 9/16" Witworth, not 10 or 11mm metric.

sykerocker 07-10-17 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 19708710)
I have a Royale as well. The original owner bought it in Brabant, Belgium. The serial # is MG17365. Oddly it has forks decaled BSA. Here are a few as found photos:

I definitely need to do some pictures. Your bike is quite a bit different from mine.

3speedslow 07-10-17 01:24 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 19708815)
You'll be amused to know that the pivot bolts on the brake calipers are 9/16" Witworth, not 10 or 11mm metric.

I say, Witworth !

You'll be horrified if you look at the brake lever pivot axle and see that the clamp bolt has cracked it. Ask me how I know...

sykerocker 07-10-17 02:12 PM

They look like something you can file down a Weinmann or DiaCompe pivot axle to fit. But it'd be enough work to have me swearing.

dweenk 07-10-17 03:23 PM

My Royale has been dis-assembled for some time, but the brake bolts are metric. The Raleigh logo seat clamp bolt is 1/4 Whitworth, and there there may be a few more oddball fasteners that I have forgotten. I got my Whitworth wrenches from Big Red Toolbox in England (brand name Siegen). I recommend them, equal to the best tools made anywhere.

sykerocker 07-10-17 03:56 PM

OK, I've taken a bunch of pictures, uploaded them to my old Photobucket account so I can include them here, and have gotten hit with a refusal to pass them on unless I pay ruinous charges for third party hosting. Admittedly, I'm a bit out of touch and have been inactive for awhile, but what the F**K**********

3speedslow 07-10-17 04:50 PM

You are in a large club! Can you post through your computer?

Pompiere 07-10-17 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 19709332)
OK, I've taken a bunch of pictures, uploaded them to my old Photobucket account so I can include them here, and have gotten hit with a refusal to pass them on unless I pay ruinous charges for third party hosting. Admittedly, I'm a bit out of touch and have been inactive for awhile, but what the F**K**********

You must have missed this thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...es-ransom.html

sykerocker 07-10-17 05:25 PM


Originally Posted by Pompiere (Post 19709484)

Yeah, definitely did. Obviously there's some problems with my being almost totally inactive for the past two years.

sykerocker 07-10-17 05:44 PM

We have a serial number! And now, I'm really confused.

4719028. Or, maybe 4719828. That fifth digit isn't absolutely clear.

Just the same, I immediately hit The Headbadge and come up with . . . . . . it's clearly a 1969 bike. Go over to Raleigh's 1969 catalog. Record, Gran Prix, Super Course. Just what I remember selling a couple of year's later at A.R. Adams Cycle. It definitely dovetails with 3speedslow's reference on the GB brakes.

But those derailleurs are throwing me off. Was Simplex still using white plastic levers in the late 60's, and then suddenly changed over to the stamped metal reinforced black ones in time for the 1971? And that rear derailleur with the open pivot points looks more primitive than the 70's Prestige mechanisms I'm used to. And there's the matter of standard fenders, definitely passe in the US by that point.

Of course, I'm looking thru American catalogs.

nlerner 07-10-17 06:58 PM

I would guess it was not made for the US market, particularly given the lamp boss on the fork, so those available catalogs won't be of much use. I'm pretty sure that I've seen pics that model from the 60s.

Does it look like this one?

sykerocker 07-10-17 09:23 PM

Frame, brakes and wheels are dead on. Derailleurs are different, and the crank on that one looks very Bike Boom Raleigh, whereas mine has a more late 50's/early 60's feel to it.

The Simplex setup and crank is what's throwing me, they both give the bike a much earlier look.

Bicycle Addict 07-11-17 02:48 AM

The Royale I thought was for the English/New Zealand market. Which for me fits the metric bolts etc, a lot of the bolt on stuff I see in NZ is metric, even on the English assembled stuff.

T-Mar 07-11-17 02:52 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 19710003)
Frame, brakes and wheels are dead on...

That frame looks like cross between the 1969 American market Record and Grand Prix with some European amenities thrown in. It's got the wrapover stays of the GP but like the Record, there's no stay mounted cable stop. However, IIRC, neither had the top tub tube pump pegs or, of course, the lamp bracket.

It's obviously been modified to a degree, as it has the long Huret stem shifters mounted to a down tube clamp.

sykerocker 07-11-17 06:45 PM

I'm pretty well settled as to what I've got, between the group's assistance and my own research. Thank you very much, I've definitely learned something new.

The Simplex drivetrain, however, is driving me nuts. I've obviously got to learn a lot more about Simplex. Those white shift levers go against every preconception I've had about the brand (but it's not like they're rare, I found a setup on eBay at a very reasonable price within ten minutes of starting to look), and the rear derailleur is just odd.

Bicyclz 07-12-17 06:20 AM

Hi.
I just came across your Royale thread & I happen to have a Raleigh Promo Passport style info leaflet for the Royale & Randonneur of the period.

May very well add to your knowledge of this very cool, top of the range, contemporary Raleigh Tourer.

If you check my website I have uploaded a scan of the salient pages.
I got problems with Photobucket just now (They telling me I use too many 3rd party links.....) & so I host this myself.

You most welcome to the actual Promo gratis if it interests you.
PM me.

You got a fine machine there.
I say treasure it: )

T-Mar 07-12-17 06:28 AM


Originally Posted by Bicyclz (Post 19712719)
Hi.
I just came across your Royale thread & I happen to have a Raleigh Promo Passport style info leaflet for the Royale & Randonneur of the period.

May very well add to your knowledge of this very cool, top of the range, contemporary Raleigh Tourer.

If you check my website I have uploaded a scan of the salient pages.
I got problems with Photobucket just now (They telling me I use too many 3rd party links.....) & so I host this myself.

You most welcome to the actual Promo gratis if it interests you.
PM me.

You got a fine machine there.
I say treasure it: )

Totally different models. Your pics shows something much more modern. Also the the spelling difference. Royal versus Royale. Raleigh used the name(s) for several divergent models over a wide time span.


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