Miyata Triplecross drop bar conversion?
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Miyata Triplecross drop bar conversion?
I picked up this Miyata Triplecross this weekend for $20, sitting out front a the local Kiwanis thrift sale. As far as I can tell, it is an 1989 vintage. Frame and wheels look to be in good shape, with just a bit of light surface rust that should clean up easily, even if the controls and consumables look a bit worse for wear. Bike is nice and light, even if I think the advertised 23.5# is a bit on the light side. Looks to have a mixed set of Exage Trail and Country components.
I don't really have much of a need for a hybrid bike, but it is a nice frame with room for seemingly up to 38s. What I would like to do with it is to replace the straight bars with drops, toss on a 3x7 brifter set, and make it a pseudo-gravel bike. Some specific questions I have about the process:
1) I am told that road brifters will not work with MTB front derailleurs. This particular derailleur (Shimano FD-M250) pulls from the bottom, would it be considered to work with road or MTB components? I am assuming it would work with road, as I'm thinking this was a bit earlier than most MTB components were made.
2) I don't see the low end Exage stuff having much love, is that because it is bad, or just old and not sexy? All I really care about is serviceability from the two derailleurs, most the rest is getting swapped out.
3) Bike currently has a 6 speed freewheel that needs replaced. From everything I have read, a 7 speed should thread on just fine, right?
4) I am assuming Canti brakes work fine with road brifters, as I see them frequently on touring and CX bikes, but are there any considerations that I need to think through? The Exage arms that came with it are probably getting replaced with a set of Acera-X brakes I have lying around.
5) For a 3x7 setup, any consensus on whether the best way forward would be new Microshift, new Tourney, or some used Shimano found on eBay? MS seems to come in around $50 for a set on eBay, Tourney $75-80, and used all over the place, but not often significantly cheaper than MS.
6) Any love for Biopace? Just figured I'd give it a shot, and if I don't like it take it off and replace it later.
I don't really have much of a need for a hybrid bike, but it is a nice frame with room for seemingly up to 38s. What I would like to do with it is to replace the straight bars with drops, toss on a 3x7 brifter set, and make it a pseudo-gravel bike. Some specific questions I have about the process:
1) I am told that road brifters will not work with MTB front derailleurs. This particular derailleur (Shimano FD-M250) pulls from the bottom, would it be considered to work with road or MTB components? I am assuming it would work with road, as I'm thinking this was a bit earlier than most MTB components were made.
2) I don't see the low end Exage stuff having much love, is that because it is bad, or just old and not sexy? All I really care about is serviceability from the two derailleurs, most the rest is getting swapped out.
3) Bike currently has a 6 speed freewheel that needs replaced. From everything I have read, a 7 speed should thread on just fine, right?
4) I am assuming Canti brakes work fine with road brifters, as I see them frequently on touring and CX bikes, but are there any considerations that I need to think through? The Exage arms that came with it are probably getting replaced with a set of Acera-X brakes I have lying around.
5) For a 3x7 setup, any consensus on whether the best way forward would be new Microshift, new Tourney, or some used Shimano found on eBay? MS seems to come in around $50 for a set on eBay, Tourney $75-80, and used all over the place, but not often significantly cheaper than MS.
6) Any love for Biopace? Just figured I'd give it a shot, and if I don't like it take it off and replace it later.
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1) I don't know this one
2) I've had no problems with the Exage stuff that's passed through my possession. I wouldn't hesitate to use it. I'm sure it's very serviceable for the typical service I think you'd need.
3) Yup, it should thread on fine. Depending on your dropouts and spacing maybe you'll need an axle spacer to get some room between the small cog and the dropouts, but I really doubt it.
4) They should work and I read a lot about certain pulls being for certain brakes. I've mixed and matched all sorts of stuff and I'm not an expert in pull ratios etc. If it pulls and stops, done. I imagine you should be fine.
5) I only have experience with Claris 8 speed and Sora 8 speed, so I'm not sure what's best here.
6) I love BioPace and make no effort to remove it when I get a bike with it. I bounce in my saddle less at higher cadences with it. My first fixie was BioPace for about 2 years, because Sheldon said it was okay. You'll find people on both sides of the fence. A variety of non rounds chain rings are popular again. It's up to you.
2) I've had no problems with the Exage stuff that's passed through my possession. I wouldn't hesitate to use it. I'm sure it's very serviceable for the typical service I think you'd need.
3) Yup, it should thread on fine. Depending on your dropouts and spacing maybe you'll need an axle spacer to get some room between the small cog and the dropouts, but I really doubt it.
4) They should work and I read a lot about certain pulls being for certain brakes. I've mixed and matched all sorts of stuff and I'm not an expert in pull ratios etc. If it pulls and stops, done. I imagine you should be fine.
5) I only have experience with Claris 8 speed and Sora 8 speed, so I'm not sure what's best here.
6) I love BioPace and make no effort to remove it when I get a bike with it. I bounce in my saddle less at higher cadences with it. My first fixie was BioPace for about 2 years, because Sheldon said it was okay. You'll find people on both sides of the fence. A variety of non rounds chain rings are popular again. It's up to you.
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So this is my current equivalent of your proposed bike -
[IMG]7/6/2017 2nd version by Russ Fitzgerald, on Flickr[/IMG]
And in no particular order -
Exage is good stuff, or at least good enough. The pictured DB Venture came stock with Exage Action road stuff, but with a 400LX crankset with steel 28/38/48T Biopace rings. I have realized I don't notice that they are Biopace unless I look down at them while riding. I have ridden bunches of stuff with Exage parts and my observation is that it works about as well as anything else Shimano makes, it's just not fancy or expensive. According to Velobase, they're about the equivalent of Sora or Tiagra, and were considered good consumer-grade stuff but not race-worthy. Pffffft. I've read posts where people talk about Exage rear derailleurs being prone to breaking, but nothing solid. Then again, mine came to me originally with a SunRace replacement. Then again, it also has a bent derailleur ear, which makes me suspect the original was done in by operator error or misadventure and not by spontaneous failure.
Oh wait, there's this - https://www.bikeforums.net/3246439-post9.html which shows Exage being above Acera X ...
The cantis should work just fine with conventional road levers, it's V-brakes one has to watch out for.
[IMG]7/6/2017 2nd version by Russ Fitzgerald, on Flickr[/IMG]
And in no particular order -
Exage is good stuff, or at least good enough. The pictured DB Venture came stock with Exage Action road stuff, but with a 400LX crankset with steel 28/38/48T Biopace rings. I have realized I don't notice that they are Biopace unless I look down at them while riding. I have ridden bunches of stuff with Exage parts and my observation is that it works about as well as anything else Shimano makes, it's just not fancy or expensive. According to Velobase, they're about the equivalent of Sora or Tiagra, and were considered good consumer-grade stuff but not race-worthy. Pffffft. I've read posts where people talk about Exage rear derailleurs being prone to breaking, but nothing solid. Then again, mine came to me originally with a SunRace replacement. Then again, it also has a bent derailleur ear, which makes me suspect the original was done in by operator error or misadventure and not by spontaneous failure.
Oh wait, there's this - https://www.bikeforums.net/3246439-post9.html which shows Exage being above Acera X ...
The cantis should work just fine with conventional road levers, it's V-brakes one has to watch out for.
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I've been researching the MTB FD vs RB FD and brifters thing and think you might be best served by just swapping out the FD for a road specific triple version just to get the best results. When I was considering doing a drop bar conversion that was what I was going to do but I came across a road bike to build up and decided to keep my flatbar on my Schwinn Crosscut.
The road bike needed a new crankset due to the original being damaged and I ended up putting a 28/38/48 Biopace crankset on it and am using a Shimano Claris FD-2403 with friction shifters and everything is working very smoothly. I will eventually go with brifters on this build so I'm looking forward to a report on your results. The only issue setting up FD's with Biopace rings is making sure the middle ring isn't rubbing the back plate of the derailleur when in the big ring, you basically have to ignore the old 1mm rule of thumb and set the FD as high up the seatpost as needed to clear the Biopace rings in all positions.
The road bike needed a new crankset due to the original being damaged and I ended up putting a 28/38/48 Biopace crankset on it and am using a Shimano Claris FD-2403 with friction shifters and everything is working very smoothly. I will eventually go with brifters on this build so I'm looking forward to a report on your results. The only issue setting up FD's with Biopace rings is making sure the middle ring isn't rubbing the back plate of the derailleur when in the big ring, you basically have to ignore the old 1mm rule of thumb and set the FD as high up the seatpost as needed to clear the Biopace rings in all positions.
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Nice bike, looks exactly like what I want to do! Almost thought about buying some clamp on DT shifters, but do want at least one STI bike someday too. Figured if I was going whole hog with the bar change, after I spent the money on new brake levers and DT/barend mounts, I may as well just give teh STI a shot.
I saw a list like that, I was more curious because the Exage I have is all 200 level stuff, same as the Acera parts I have/had on another bike. It seems the Exage name covered quite a bit of equipment levels. I know the Acera brakes are a step up in quality from what is currently on there, if the derailleur works as well as my Acera, it is perfect for what I need.
Also, how do you like those tires? CRC has them for $18, a price I'm more than willing to pay.
Cool, guess I've never priced out FDs and realized how cheap they were. Worst case, I give this one a shot, and if it doesn't work swap it out for one of those Claris!
And good point on the Biopace and spacing, wouldn't have thought about that
I saw a list like that, I was more curious because the Exage I have is all 200 level stuff, same as the Acera parts I have/had on another bike. It seems the Exage name covered quite a bit of equipment levels. I know the Acera brakes are a step up in quality from what is currently on there, if the derailleur works as well as my Acera, it is perfect for what I need.
Also, how do you like those tires? CRC has them for $18, a price I'm more than willing to pay.
The road bike needed a new crankset due to the original being damaged and I ended up putting a 28/38/48 Biopace crankset on it and am using a Shimano Claris FD-2403 with friction shifters ... you basically have to ignore the old 1mm rule of thumb and set the FD as high up the seatpost as needed to clear the Biopace rings in all positions.
And good point on the Biopace and spacing, wouldn't have thought about that
Last edited by jefnvk; 07-31-17 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Tire question
#6
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I had a triplecross that I used as a gravel/long distance bike for a little while until I bent the fork in a crash. It was a really nice riding bike, I kind of miss it. I went with bar-end shifters and v-brakes since I started with a bare frame. I'd do brifters and cantis nowadays and probably 8 or 9 speed stuff since it's a 135mm rear end there are lots of decent hybrid wheels out there for cheap... the only thing I wished was that it had a lower BB but it wasn't a dealbreaker.
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Not too worried about the bottom bracket height, it isn't going to be a true CX style bike, just a gravel road/trail pounder!
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Or just go retro with dia come ene bar end shifters currently $69 at Wiggle, wiggle.com | Dia-Compe Bar End Gear Shifter Set | Gear Levers And Shifters Road
It will work with a suntour freewheel or a shimano freewheel. It will work with pretty much any front derailleur you throw at it. And I'd rather have a shifter for the front derailleur on a triple that I can trim.
It will work with a suntour freewheel or a shimano freewheel. It will work with pretty much any front derailleur you throw at it. And I'd rather have a shifter for the front derailleur on a triple that I can trim.
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Tempting, actually. I like the barends on my 610 a lot. Still think I wanna give this a go with the brifters, as I'm not really likely to put them on any of my other bikes. And, after two new bike purchases in the last week and a half, I'm not likely to be suffered if I bring another one home anytime soon...
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Exage 6 speed makes me think it's as early as 88. By 89 most were into Mtn LX or 200/300/400 GS stuff.
I've had RSX 7 speed brifters shifting mtn cranks and gears smoothly. Not sure about newer models.
edit...so there's the problem with some front derailleurs in the video.
I've had RSX 7 speed brifters shifting mtn cranks and gears smoothly. Not sure about newer models.
edit...so there's the problem with some front derailleurs in the video.
Last edited by clubman; 07-31-17 at 04:58 PM.
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Check out this video by RJ. It is very much like what you are proposing with your Miyata:
I hope that answers some of your questions and gives you some ideas.
Enjoy,
-Shin
I hope that answers some of your questions and gives you some ideas.
Enjoy,
-Shin
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https://www.miyatacatalogs.com/2007/1...alog-1989.html
Thanks, will give it a look when I get home!
#13
Death fork? Naaaah!!
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What are the brakes/shifters on that? Look interesting! I'm shooting for it to replace the Le Tour as my normal all-arounder, too. My normal after work ride involved a mix of gravel and crumbling pavement, that the Le Tour is best suited for outside of my 2" bike.
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Death fork? Naaaah!!
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Or just go retro with dia come ene bar end shifters currently $69 at Wiggle, wiggle.com | Dia-Compe Bar End Gear Shifter Set | Gear Levers And Shifters Road
It will work with a suntour freewheel or a shimano freewheel. It will work with pretty much any front derailleur you throw at it. And I'd rather have a shifter for the front derailleur on a triple that I can trim.
It will work with a suntour freewheel or a shimano freewheel. It will work with pretty much any front derailleur you throw at it. And I'd rather have a shifter for the front derailleur on a triple that I can trim.
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/shima...les/#pid=25440
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Or Ribble has Shimano 8 speed Ultegra shifters w/inner cables for $57.98. The right can work in friction mode too.
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/shima...les/#pid=25440
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/shima...les/#pid=25440
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Hmm, gotta keep those Ultegras in mind for a future build! Pretty much set on the Microshifts for this, though, just gotta decide if I want to stick with some basic bars I already own, or if I want to source my preferred randonneur sweep bars.
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FWIW these work indexed for 7 & 8 speed (I've actually done it, not just speculating). When you use them with a 7 speed the extra click just disappears. I'm not mechanically smart enough to figure out where the extra click goes, but it just works. Of course if you use them in friction mode it works with any speed you want. Had them set up 10 speed for a while
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FWIW these work indexed for 7 & 8 speed (I've actually done it, not just speculating). When you use them with a 7 speed the extra click just disappears. I'm not mechanically smart enough to figure out where the extra click goes, but it just works. Of course if you use them in friction mode it works with any speed you want. Had them set up 10 speed for a while
St. Sheldon has a good crib sheet on this, https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
There is a difference of .2 mm in spacing between shimano 7s and 8s
#21
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Man, we all liked to talk about Miyatas.
I have Exage stuff and Biopace on a couple of bikes...much love from me.
I have gone from a 6 to 7 freewheel, no problems. Or, you could use a ultra-7 freewheel, but it's a pricey alternative, + chain.
As to brifters, you're on your own. I hate brifters, but each to their own.
I have Exage stuff and Biopace on a couple of bikes...much love from me.
I have gone from a 6 to 7 freewheel, no problems. Or, you could use a ultra-7 freewheel, but it's a pricey alternative, + chain.
As to brifters, you're on your own. I hate brifters, but each to their own.
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As always I recommend just cleaning and tuning then riding a while to be sure you like it, then start changing it to suit your needs or desire.
A 7spd FW and barends would be probably be the quickest and cheapest route.
A 7spd FW and barends would be probably be the quickest and cheapest route.
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Never used them, but they're in the mail! I'll learn real quick if I like them or not! Figure I couldn't learn cheaper than $50.
#24
Death fork? Naaaah!!
Let me know how the Microshift brifters work out. I've ordered two sets from two different vendors and neither one were triples, despite being sold as such.
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I had a 1989 Triple Cross too. Was all orginal. I put on narrower bars & newer brake levers. The stock (plastic) motocross style brake levers, did stick out a bit, when you're trying to slice thru traffic & parked cars. Its a great bike stock, was a 28 38 48, tooth crankset, pretty standard on hybrids today. The Biopace crankset does seem to be easier on your knees. The triple butted spline frame. My rear axle broke, broke the dropout & got a flat crossing a cobblestone crosswalk one evening. Cheers, Chris
Last edited by TireLever-07; 08-02-17 at 07:11 AM. Reason: typo