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Raleigh Super Course Mk II

Old 08-19-17, 03:03 AM
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Raleigh Super Course Mk II

I've got a chance to pick up a what looks to be a 74-75 green SC MKII, but a couple of things are confusing me about it:

(1) It has forged dropouts with a derailer hanger. Everything I can see from other pictures looks like they all had stamped dropouts with claws for RD attachment.

(2) It has a square taper BB. Again, it looks like they were originally equipped with cottered cranks. I know this is a simple conversion, but still not original spec, correct?

Any MKII owners out there have forged dropouts/RD hangers? It's an internet buy (always a bit leery when making internet purchases not on here), so I want to cover my ground before clicking buy.

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Old 08-19-17, 06:18 AM
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jpaschall-

You're good. Near the end of MK II production, the frames were upgraded with the addition of forged dropouts at the rear and cotterless steel Nervar cranks or cotterless alloy Nervar cranksets. Go through the Raleigh Super Course thread here on the site. There is at least one photo of a Green/white MK II like this unless Photobucket has blocked the images.

Here's a catalogue image off the web.

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Old 08-19-17, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bertinjim View Post
jpaschall-

You're good. Near the end of MK II production, the frames were upgraded with the addition of forged dropouts at the rear and cotterless steel Nervar cranks or cotterless alloy Nervar cranksets. Go through the Raleigh Super Course thread here on the site. There is at least one photo of a Green/white MK II like this unless Photobucket has blocked the images.
Thanks! Yeah I tried skimming the thread earlier, but so many of the photos aren't working anymore.
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Old 08-19-17, 06:39 AM
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Interesting. The catalogs with the Mk II show it with the bolt on claw but there are definitely versions with the forged dropout. Given that the catalog also shows my 79 with a 26.8 seat post but it is clearly a 26.4, I don't trust the Raleigh catalog to always be accurate.

Here is a MKII frame listed on ebay which definitely has the forged dropout. I have no affiliation with this seller.
Vintage Raleigh Carlton Super Course MK II Reynolds 531 ? Road Bike Frame 64cm C | eBay
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Old 08-19-17, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by beicster View Post
Interesting. The catalogs with the Mk II show it with the bolt on claw but there are definitely versions with the forged dropout. Given that the catalog also shows my 79 with a 26.8 seat post but it is clearly a 26.4, I don't trust the Raleigh catalog to always be accurate.

Here is a MKII frame listed on ebay which definitely has the forged dropout. I have no affiliation with this seller.
Vintage Raleigh Carlton Super Course MK II Reynolds 531 ? Road Bike Frame 64cm C | eBay
Wow, thank you for this link. Have seen scores of these over the years, both in person and online. This is the first one I've encountered with the Huret forged ends.



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Old 08-19-17, 07:50 AM
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That's the one. I didn't want to post the link and get swooped. Oxalic acid in my future.
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Old 08-19-17, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jpaschall View Post
That's the one. I didn't want to post the link and get swooped. Oxalic acid in my future.
Awesome. I assume that you are the one who grabbed it.

I have been watching that one just to see when it sold. I like my 79, but the earlier Super Courses are what really call out to me. I just don't have the time or the room to add another project right now. I hope you make a thread as you go through it as I am curious to see how it cleans up.
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Old 08-19-17, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jpaschall View Post
That's the one. I didn't want to post the link and get swooped. Oxalic acid in my future.
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Congratulations!

Please commence a textile whenst ye break ground.

Thanks to all the thread participants here. Am used to seeing these displaying upgrades of chainset and gear ensemble over the catalogue specification but his dropout upgrade is a new one to me. Much appreciated.

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Old 08-19-17, 09:55 AM
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I assume these came stock with 27" wheels? 126/100 or 120/100 spacing? I've got everything I need to get this done quickly if I go the 27" route, I'll have to acquire some wheels otherwise.
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Old 08-19-17, 10:11 AM
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Yes indeed, 27" wheels and 120mm rear spacing.

Shell 24TPI but steerer 26TPI.

Either Challenger or Jubilee gear ensemble, or mixture thereof, would be "correct."

We just had one posted earlier this week which came through with the factory spec Challenger shift levers and front mech paired with a Jubilee rear:







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Last edited by juvela; 08-19-17 at 01:52 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 08-19-17, 02:21 PM
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Let's go ahead and make this a build thread so I can get the OA/rust removal experts in here. Will take better pictures once it's in my hands, but for now I'd like to start planning for initial clean up so I can collect what I need.

Some photos:


IMG_5584 by Joshua Paschall, on Flickr


IMG_5585 by Joshua Paschall, on Flickr


IMG_5586 by Joshua Paschall, on Flickr


IMG_5587 by Joshua Paschall, on Flickr

Obviously I've got my work cut out for me, but I wanted a project. Was planning OA for the whole frame, but reading some old threads has me questioning that approach. Obviously wanting to preserve paint and decals here. The fork is likely toast as far as the chrome goes, but we'll see. I've read 0.2% concentration for OA soak followed by baking soda soak for neutralization is the best approach for OA. Going to need a large soaking bin, not even sure if a kiddie pool would fit this frame. Thoughts and opinions on clean up appreciated as always.
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Old 08-19-17, 02:51 PM
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Looks like the salt monster got that one. Raleigh Chrome was pretty tough back then so don't give up hope for a nice recovery.
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Old 08-19-17, 03:00 PM
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Judging by the BB cable guide she came through fitted with a Jubilee front mech. Nice that you got the NERVAR bottom bracket assembly and the Raleigh/Gripfast seat binder.

You will need one those Huret black plastic nuts for the dropout adjuster screw, ref. 226.



Mechanicing tip - these bikes come through with unkeyed steerers. I like to cut a rectangular keyway using a flat file with a rectangular crossection so that a toothed headset washer can be fitted. The washer makes both headset adjustment and adjustment retention easier.

For the adjusting barrel on the rear brake bridge a Simplex shift lever adjsuting barrel works just fine:
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Old 08-19-17, 04:32 PM
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Speaking of rear dropout adjusters, I believe that Huret used a different thread to the one used in all other adjusters. You might want to be really careful about removal and re-installation because finding replacements might be tricky. Lovely MK II with lots of potential, by the way. I'm looking forward to your restoration.
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Old 08-19-17, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bertinjim View Post
Speaking of rear dropout adjusters, I believe that Huret used a different thread to the one used in all other adjusters. You might want to be really careful about removal and re-installation because finding replacements might be tricky. Lovely MK II with lots of potential, by the way. I'm looking forward to your restoration.
Yes indeed, Freres Huret employs a dropout adjuster thread of 3.0mm X 0.6 whilst the balance of the known universe makes use of 3.0mm X 0.5.

BTW - frame constructed with Prugnat lugset 62/s and crown Vagner DP+.

BB tip - the NERVAR nr. 117 spindle that is in there is very likely pitted/spawled while the cups will be nicely run in. the Sugino Mighty spindle nr. MW 68 is a perfect fit, runs smoother and lasts longer.

Party on!

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Last edited by juvela; 08-19-17 at 09:28 PM. Reason: pronounciation
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Old 08-20-17, 10:28 AM
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Did any Mark II's come with Zeus forged drop-outs (no adjusters)?
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Old 08-20-17, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dweenk View Post
Did any Mark II's come with Zeus forged drop-outs (no adjusters)?
Zeus non-adjuster dropuots are not forged.
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Old 08-20-17, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
Zeus non-adjuster dropuots are not forged.
So to restate the question. Did any Mark II's come with Zeus drop-outs?
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Old 08-20-17, 12:56 PM
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That's my "new" SC Mk II in post #10. I believe my serial number places it early in 1974 (WE4002077). In addition to not having the forged adjustable dropouts with integrated hanger, it also doesn't have the dimpled chain stays making it a bit harder to go fatter if I went to a 700c or 650b conversion.

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Old 08-20-17, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by S28546 View Post
That's my "new" SC Mk II in post #10. I believe my serial number places it early in 1974 (WE4002077). In addition to not having the forged adjustable dropouts with integrated hanger, it also doesn't have the dimpled chain stays making it a bit harder to go fatter if I went to a 700c or 650b conversion.
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One term employed in the UK for those non-dimpled chainstays is "rapier pattern." Early 1974 would make it right near the very beginning of the MkII.

Really enjoyed seeing it as it is so all original. Usually when a MkII turns up it has been "worked on."

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Old 08-20-17, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
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Really enjoyed seeing it as it is so all original. Usually when a MkII turns up it has been "worked on."

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Yea! Once again I find a probably original survivor and develop guilt about plans to change it. First time was my PX 50 L. Now this SC Mk II!

No doubt in my mind this is how I start to be a hoarder.

It could be worse though, bikes are cheaper than sailboats...
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Old 08-20-17, 04:40 PM
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Do not know if you have as yet commenced lavandation but the combination of lubricant diffusion, dust and indoor storage look to have created a manner of happenstance cosmoline which have preserved it in great shape. Me ball crystalle forecast sayeth that she will redd up most nicely for you.

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Old 08-20-17, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by S28546 View Post
Yea! Once again I find a probably original survivor and develop guilt about plans to change it. First time was my PX 50 L. Now this SC Mk II!

No doubt in my mind this is how I start to be a hoarder.

It could be worse though, bikes are cheaper than sailboats...
I know this feeling. This is the main reason I prefer project bikes. Not going super original with this one. I may try to find an appropriate crankset, will probably do centerpulls, but that may be it.
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Old 08-20-17, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dweenk View Post
Did any Mark II's come with Zeus forged drop-outs (no adjusters)?
Yes! When I bought my 23 1/2" green and white '75 Mark II (BITD), I was disappointed to find that only the 25" versions had forged drop outs. They were Huret drop outs with a Jubileee derailleur and Nervar Star Cranks. The smaller sizes had stamped drop outs (with Whitworth threaded eyelets) and Huret Challenger mechanisms. The saving grace was the Stronglight 93 Crank set , complete with polished guard ring. Some of the Grand Sports had Zeus drop outs, as well.
You have one of the rarer finds.
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Old 08-20-17, 04:53 PM
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Yeah, and yours Mark II has a Raleigh Proprietary threaded Headset. Bullet proof, but becoming rarer to find in decent shape.
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