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Repairing bottom bracket shell

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Repairing bottom bracket shell

Old 09-05-17, 03:34 PM
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joedab
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Repairing bottom bracket shell

Posting to ask if anyone has a frame builder they can recommend in the Bay Area who may have time for an Italian BB shell repair. I posted here before about this bike having a clicking noise when climbing, isolating the problem was isolated to damaged shell threads. I had some work done on the frame filling the shell threads with brass then retapped, but they ended up looking just as bad and the bike still clicks. The diagnosis is further supported by the noise being dulled for a time after installing the cups wrapped in teflon tape. An alternative may be to ream the threads out entirely and install some sort of press-fit bottom bracket, but I would want to make sure this would be an improvement.
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Old 09-05-17, 03:46 PM
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-----

One possible source of the problem would be if taps were too oversize. Bottom bracket tap manufacturers intentionally make their taps slightly oversize in order to accommodate manufacturing tolerances.

Years ago I replaced a VAR tap set I had been using with a Bicycle Research one only to find that cups really rattled around in there something fierce. I asked the manufacturer about it and they told me how many thousandths they were purposely made oversize because Campag was putting out some cups which were too large for shells which had been tapped with Campag taps.

I replaced the BR set as soon as possible.

-----
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Old 09-05-17, 04:05 PM
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I don't know if your cranks will work with it but Velo Orange makes a BB that threads onto itself independent of the threads.
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Old 09-05-17, 05:09 PM
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See if Ed Litton has the bandwidth. He's in Point Richmond and I'm almost positive he has the BB taps. If he's too busy I'd go with whoever he would recommend instead.
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Old 09-05-17, 08:15 PM
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Paul Sadoff at Rock Lobster Cycles in Santa Cruz is reasonably priced and has almost 40 years of experience. Last I heard he had a pretty full plate, but would definitely be worth a call.
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Old 09-05-17, 10:07 PM
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I had the same thought as Bianchigirll.
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Old 09-06-17, 07:30 AM
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I'll also throw this out there. I solved my very worn Italian BB thread problem by using a Phil Wood cartridge. It has an adjustable cup on each side, so essentially you're tightening the cups against each other. Installed with blue Loctite and it has worked great.
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Old 09-06-17, 09:55 AM
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I like the phil solution the best. ^^^^

If it's already been brass filled and retapped, I'm not convinced doing it again is going to help, unless it wasn't done right the first time.

First though, are you certain that it's the BB shell and not the cranks? The latter clicking is 100x more common. If you haven't already, pull the cranks, wipe spindles clean. Grease the bolts and washers generously. Reinstall. Campy cranks usually work best this way. (except with phil BB that should be greased)

(and don't nobody give me the 'myth' lip, it ain't no myth. )

While you're at it, grease pedal spindles and chainring bolts.
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Old 09-24-17, 06:32 PM
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an update that has this bike decisively out of operation -- the pedal fell out from under my foot right at the start of a climb when the end of the non-drive side crank broke ..

I have changed the cranks, and pedals and tried different bottom brackets and so I am pretty sure it's the mate of the drive-side cup and the shell, especially because teflon tape here dulls the clicking sound. To do the brazing and tapping again may help because I have my doubts it was done optimally the last time. I will take a macro photo of the threads the next time I have it open.

the velo orange solution looks like the most straight-forward solution, though I asked and they don't currently have a variety for italian-threaded shells.

still curious though about reaming the shell for a more modern type of press-fit bottom bracket such as PF30 talked about in
at 2:54 where the bearings are mounted inside nylon cups that are pressed into the frame.

I have also heard of the possibility of replacing the entire shell lug, but I can't quite visualize how to get a new one on without loosening the bottom and seat tube from their other respective lugs ..


thanks for the referals
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Old 09-24-17, 08:38 PM
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...one thing you might want to try that has not been mentioned here.

Because they are both RH threaded cups, you can use adjustable cup and lock ring on the drives side as well as the non drive side.
It used to be a common kludge to adjust chainline, but you hardly see it any more.

By installing a cup with a lockring on the drive side (your problem side), you can use the lockring to pull some tension on the threading interface between shell and cup, and if you also use some Loctite on the interface, it might very well be a workable solution. Or not. YMMV
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Old 09-25-17, 03:01 PM
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One more thing that I would do if this were my frame or one that was brought to me.
I understand that this frame is already Italian-threaded.
I would go through my large stash of Italian BB fixed cups, looking for cups with longer threaded sections, and using a measuring caliper I would select from cups with a slightly larger major diameter across the threads.
Then, if the threading would support solid torqueing upon installation, there could be even more tightening tension than could be achieved using any kind of lockring.
And at this point, I would also be using a couple of fat drops of blue Loctite, on clean threads.


Also, Campagnolo made bb cups with oversized thread diameter, for this exact sort of scenario. They are not the rarest of parts so could perhaps be sourced with some patience and diligence, and/or by inquiring with the CR List.

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Old 09-25-17, 08:52 PM
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Pino. Ain't goin nowhere.

PINO Morroni Bottom Bracket. 1970 ish. Italian Threaded. Cartridge type, Vintage | eBay
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Old 10-06-17, 10:11 PM
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so I had a moment to take the bottom bracket out to get some shots of the drive-side threads and am curious if they present any red flags. Perhaps they are worth filling with brass and retapping yet again .. the drive side cup is not as loose as before, but still persists to click on the right-side power stroke when standing. I thought about the double adjustable cup idea, though I cannot think of anything more secure than the drive-side fixed cup arrangement.

This might be straying a bit too far from the thread's original subject, but I am thinking of replacing the crank with one of the JIS tapered cranks I already have. Though I am not sure if there are any italian-threaded bottom brackets available with JIS tapered spindles, which usually bottom out on ISO tapered spindles. Maybe I would need to find a crank made for an italian bottom bracket, but then it's also tricky determining the proper new spindle length ..
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Old 10-06-17, 11:06 PM
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Campagnolo made slightly oversize cups, I imagine just for this issue.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-Ov...%257Ciid%253A2
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Old 10-06-17, 11:09 PM
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...visually, those look fine. A click on standing up on a power stroke can be anything from how the BB cups fit, to the seating of the crank arms on the spindle, to the pedal on either side. I Trust you have swapped out pedals to something different already as a test to attempt to eliminate that possibility?

If the pedal eye broke on your last outing,what are you using for your testing ? That crack (before it failed completely) would certainly be a source of a noise like that.

I rarely install an Italian or French drive side cup without using Loctite on the threads. Not sure why you would not at least try that.
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Old 10-06-17, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.If the pedal eye broke on your last outing,what are you using for your testing ? That crack (before it failed completely) would certainly be a source of a noise like that.
I wondered when someone was going to point out the obvious. Whenever I get clicking while pedaling, I re-grease the pedal threads, put a tiny bit on the BB spindle flats and bolts. Solves the issue 100% of the time.

The threads on the snapped arm look pretty clean - almost too clean, like no lubrication was used when the pedal was mounted.

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Old 10-07-17, 12:24 AM
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I, too, have found that pedal clicks can seem like they are coming from the bottom bracket or chainrings.

But the OP states that the sound goes away temporarily when teflon tape is used on the bottom bracket threads, so it might indeed be the BB threads. However, I’d still like to hear confirmation the sound still happens with another crank before blaming the BB. That one was cracked seems like too big of a coincidence to not be the cause of the noise.

Last edited by artclone; 10-07-17 at 12:25 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-08-17, 05:05 PM
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Cut slot in BB shell, braze on sockets for tandem style pinch bolts.

Ream BB shell, install steel sleeve. There are sleeves for this purpose.

The Pino BB sold, you won't find another. There were Stronglight BBs with the same type full length threaded shell, you might possibly find one of those.
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