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Will pedal assist bikes ever be C&V?

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Will pedal assist bikes ever be C&V?

Old 09-12-17, 04:30 PM
  #51  
Cute Boy Horse
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Originally Posted by Vintage_Cyclist
Motorized bicycles are motor vehicles. I suspect that in most areas they are technically illegal. Unlike most motor vehicles, they aren't following M/V safety inspection requirements, insurance requirements, following the rules of the road, etc.
Most places worldwide regulate ebikes, and anything legal is going to be crippled down into a form where they don't behave different than a bicycle.

I mean, come on. They're 250 watt vehicles that are mechanically and structurally identical to an ordinary bicycle, except they have a capped maximum speed of 25kph. In other words they are bicycles but slower. Why would you hold them to any other standard than what they are - a slowly ridden bicycle?

Now, you do have illegal homebuilt ebikes that tear arse, and are completely invisible to cops. Effectively a dodge of motorbike regulation and licencing, and have no real change of getting caught... and that's cool as hell. I never intentionally followed a law in my life, and I can slip under the radar on a completely silent five+ horsepower bike that weighs almost nothing? Cops are a pain in the ass confiscating everyone's dirt bikes where I'm from so sign me the hell up.
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Old 09-12-17, 07:54 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse
I mean, come on. They're 250 watt vehicles that are mechanically and structurally identical to an ordinary bicycle, except they have a capped maximum speed of 25kph.
.

32 kph (20 mph) motor-alone max in most of US, though some states allow up to 30 mph. Pedal-assisted can be faster than motor-alone max mph.

Last edited by davester; 09-12-17 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 09-12-17, 08:24 PM
  #53  
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Let me play devil's advocate for a minute. My wife has arthritic hips (meaning it will probably get worse, and might involve hip replacement some day) and is simply not as fast and strong a rider as I am. Basically, I can either go slow, wait, or ride separately from her. This puts a bit of stress on our relationship. If I could put that Vivax motor on her bike, it would make our rides more enjoyable, and from what I can tell, she still would get a reasonable work-out. She has no interest in anything but very casual recreational riding and commuting, so the idea of it being a form of cheating is irrelevant.

What would be wrong with this?
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Old 09-12-17, 08:28 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by gomango
Agreed.

I just want these people riding these things off the local paths.

Good gracious, they are a real danger.

Passing on the left and right at 23-26 mph is not cool.
Wait, they're passing you at that speed? Pshaw.
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Old 09-12-17, 08:37 PM
  #55  
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This is really simple:

If it has a motor it isn't a bicycle (as currently defined). It's a motorcycle/moped/something else.

Whether or not such a vehicle will be "C&V" isn't related to current or future bicycles.

Either there will be an interest in these vehicles in later years or there won't.
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Old 09-12-17, 09:24 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by khatfull
Wait, they're passing you at that speed? Pshaw.
Yep, right on the Sam Morgan/Three Rivers along the river.

On the way down to the St. Paul Yacht Club.
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Old 09-12-17, 09:28 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by gomango
Yep, right on the Sam Morgan/Three Rivers along the river.

On the way down to the St. Paul Yacht Club.
I was being facetious...shouldn't YOU be passing THEM at that speed?
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Old 09-12-17, 09:32 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by khatfull
I was being facetious...shouldn't YOU be passing THEM at that speed?
With the help of a tow rope............
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Old 09-13-17, 03:16 PM
  #59  
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In the year 2220?
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Old 09-13-17, 04:34 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by shuru421
In the year 2220?
There still won't be any jet packs or flying cars.
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Old 09-13-17, 04:47 PM
  #61  
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Mmm then i didnt shoot far enough..3330? Loll..point is, hopefully it never does..cause thats not classic bicycling..
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Old 09-14-17, 01:26 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by khatfull
This is really simple: If it has a motor it isn't a bicycle (as currently defined). It's a motorcycle/moped/something else.
Sorry, but most states don't agree with you and have already legislatively defined such as bicycles. Restrictions vary by state, but they are considered bicycles by many https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Forms/DMV/6619.pdf

edit: Just looked up your state's DMV summary, and unlike most states, they do define electric pedal assist bikes as mopeds requiring registration and (if you are not already a licensed driver) an operators permit.

How's that working out? Enforced/obeyed? Or largely ignored? Don

Last edited by ollo_ollo; 09-14-17 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 09-14-17, 01:37 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by ollo_ollo
Sorry, but most states don't agree with you and have already legislatively defined such as bicycles. Restrictions vary by state, but they are considered bicycles by many https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Forms/DMV/6619.pdf
The operative word there being "legislatively", meaning enacted by Legislators, translated meaning politicians.

Hence the lack of logic and reason.
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Old 09-14-17, 02:45 PM
  #64  
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To be fair, the states are somewhat handicapped by the 2001 Federal trade legislation defining e-bikes with below 750 watt motors and unable to exceed 20 mph as bicycles, not motor vehicles. States can add restrictions and call it a moped requiring a license etc. People will comply, or not depending on resources committed. Eventually, it will sort itself out. Don
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Old 09-19-17, 12:18 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse
Now, you do have illegal homebuilt ebikes that tear arse, and are completely invisible to cops. Effectively a dodge of motorbike regulation and licencing, and have no real change of getting caught... and that's cool as hell. I never intentionally followed a law in my life, and I can slip under the radar on a completely silent five+ horsepower bike that weighs almost nothing? Cops are a pain in the ass confiscating everyone's dirt bikes where I'm from so sign me the hell up.
You seem like a fun sort. Wouldn't it be great if people could actually be left alone to act responsibly on their own initiative? Unfortunately, the world we currently live in...

Around here you have roving gangs of morons stunting around on dirt bikes and quads, popping wheelies in the middle of traffic and crowded streets. No helmets, no insurance, and half the bikes/quads don't even belong to them. There are always some schmucks ruining it for the rest of us, but that's the society we live in.

E-bikes need to be regulated for the same reason. Pedal assist and governed at 20mph? I'm fine with considering them like regular bikes and no imposing restrictions. Anything beyond that, just call it a scooter and let the laws apply as such.
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Old 09-19-17, 04:00 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo
E-bikes need to be regulated for the same reason. Pedal assist and governed at 20mph? I'm fine with considering them like regular bikes and no imposing restrictions. Anything beyond that, just call it a scooter and let the laws apply as such.
And the best part about those regulations is that everyone can ignore them with impunity.

Here in Holland people buy hilarious "S-Pedalec" ebikes that can go 28MPH and need a Moped AM licence, vehicle registration and insurance. It's dumb of them because you can get the same thing by buying a regular ebike and swapping the controller, and there's no consequence to doing so.

Back in England I had a 66CC two stroke on a Raleigh, in legal terms I was on a motorbike that wasn't type approved, had no registration, no licence, no insurance, and so the cops could have taken and crushed it at any time along with slapping a huge fine and driving ban on me. Police just drove past and didn't give a damn, some of them even waved. Being in trouble is a fake idea.
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Old 09-19-17, 04:51 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse
And the best part about those regulations is that everyone can ignore them with impunity.

Police just drove past and didn't give a damn, some of them even waved. Being in trouble is a fake idea.
I know what you mean. Enforcement will always be a struggle/issue, but it can be done. When they first imposed helmet laws in Italy for 50cc scooters, it was pretty interesting to see the reaction in various parts of the country. Eventually the police cracked down where needed, and now you really only see people ignoring it in Naples (among the big cities), but then Naples is like the wild f--in west.
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Old 09-19-17, 06:24 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo
I know what you mean. Enforcement will always be a struggle/issue, but it can be done. When they first imposed helmet laws in Italy for 50cc scooters, it was pretty interesting to see the reaction in various parts of the country. Eventually the police cracked down where needed, and now you really only see people ignoring it in Naples (among the big cities), but then Naples is like the wild f--in west.
The dutch figured out a great scam to get out of helmets. There's a special extremely-low-powered vehicle category intended for bicycles with helper motors like the Spartamet. They have a blue licence plate, no helmet requirement, and ride on bike paths. Basically anything qualifies so long as it's - on paper - mechanically limited to 20mph. They never are in practice.

It's absurd because in Holland bikes and blue plated vehicles are forbidden from using the road if a bike path is also there, so all the dutch omas and schoolkids are pedalling along and getting buzzed by 30mph Vespas constantly. Meanwhile it would be a terrible sin here to ride my ten speed in the car lane even though I can match the sedate dutch auto driver's pace with little effort.
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Old 09-19-17, 08:06 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by wgscott
Let me play devil's advocate for a minute. My wife has arthritic hips (meaning it will probably get worse, and might involve hip replacement some day) and is simply not as fast and strong a rider as I am. Basically, I can either go slow, wait, or ride separately from her. This puts a bit of stress on our relationship. If I could put that Vivax motor on her bike, it would make our rides more enjoyable, and from what I can tell, she still would get a reasonable work-out. She has no interest in anything but very casual recreational riding and commuting, so the idea of it being a form of cheating is irrelevant.

What would be wrong with this?
Nothing wrong with it but there is an alternative. My wife and I are faced with a similar situation (substitute heart for hips) but have solved it nicely with a tandem!
Brent
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Old 09-19-17, 08:44 PM
  #70  
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Motorized or not, will the soulless bikes of today ever become classic? Or will they follow automobiles in having limited classic appeal. Few wax nostalgic over the cars of the 80s and 90s. The last classic vehicles come out of the 70s. C & V bikes go a bit longer, but I'm not sure mere age will be enough to turn more recent designs into classics.
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Old 09-21-17, 06:21 PM
  #71  
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I can see them being C&V ultimately, once enough time has passed. However, I don't see them ever venturing into the same rarefied romantic territory that we tend to assign to the bikes we lusted over in our youth. I imagine they'll be looked at rather more like the way we look back on generic house-brand department store town bikes. (If, of course, we can still find functional battery packs for them when the time comes.)
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Old 09-21-17, 06:40 PM
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Once everybody is riding their hover-bike powered by a personal antimatter reactor.... they'll look back at these primitive lithium ion based E-Bikes as true collectors items.
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Old 09-25-17, 02:56 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by jon c.
Or will they follow automobiles in having limited classic appeal. Few wax nostalgic over the cars of the 80s and 90s. The last classic vehicles come out of the 70s.
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