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Miyata tourer question?

Old 09-13-17, 03:02 PM
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Miyata tourer question?

So an '84 610 is double butted with hi-ten fork while an '85 210 is 3ple butted with a manganese fork. I have the former bike and the latter is available, am I missing out on a significantly improved ride if I don't pick it up? They about the same?
What's the good word?
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Old 09-13-17, 04:28 PM
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Miyata continually upgraded throughout the 1980s. If it were me, I'd wait for one of the late 1980s models with the Miyata Splined tubing (1988+/-)
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Old 09-13-17, 05:11 PM
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Did miyata do production of their mid to high quality models in Japan all the way through the 80s? I've always wondered as the lugs change around 1986 or 87.
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Old 09-13-17, 05:44 PM
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It'd be fun to do a side-by-side 'vertical tasting', like a small-vineyard California Zin or Washington Merlot.
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Old 09-13-17, 07:22 PM
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Bah! You guys are the WORST! I should've known the answered be get it, get both, get all the bicycles!
My girlfriend has the '86 210, so I can sort of get a comparison. She loves hers.
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Old 09-13-17, 07:27 PM
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magnaloy forks are very nice
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Old 09-13-17, 07:29 PM
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Once had an '84 210 but it had the same tubing as your '85. Very stable ride. I thought it a bit on the heavy side. Never had a 610 of any era to compare to, but I got my wife a 1981 1000 (gave it a little test ride since it's not vastly smaller than my size), and even with 3 fewer years of refinement, I prefer it to the 210.

My suggestion... hold out for a 1000.
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Old 09-13-17, 07:42 PM
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I have a 25" 1985 210 and can confirm that it is still pretty heavy as Zorro says (it is a giant bike, though). It is a nice ride, depends on price point IMO
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Old 09-13-17, 10:05 PM
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My Miyata-built '84 Univega Gran Tourismo is the 'tweener'... DB CrMo frame with a mangaloy fork (with canti-brakes and fork/ rear rack mounts that were NOT offered on the 'similar' Miyata 610 that year....) 3x5 gearing, utilizig SunTour Mountech derailleurs. Still relatively 'heavy' at 27 pounds in 57cm
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Old 09-13-17, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Piff
Did miyata do production of their mid to high quality models in Japan all the way through the 80s? I've always wondered as the lugs change around 1986 or 87.
Every upper end Miyata I have owned was made in Japan. I have had them through 1990.
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Old 09-14-17, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Piff
Did miyata do production of their mid to high quality models in Japan all the way through the 80s? I've always wondered as the lugs change around 1986 or 87.
My 87 912 was made in Japan. Ive seen a 9xx from '89 or 90 that was still made in Japan.
But ive also seen a 918 from the early 90s that was made in Taiwan. Lugged and Splined Triple Butted still.
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Old 09-14-17, 10:44 AM
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I had a 610 I picked up used 1990 to use as a city/rain/winter bike. Served me very well. I think it was ~'83 but never actually knew. Nor do I know what tubing it was. It was big for me (25").

For me the fit was problematical. Shallow angle and not very long top tube meant the reach was short, even with a 130 stem. The BB drop was also an oddity, very small so the BB was very high. Now that worked out very well for me as the bike was my fix gear. Never struck a pedal! In 20 years and 27,000 miles!

I paid little attention to what the tubing might be and always assumed it was a mediocre hi-ten, but when I replaced the bike after a fatal crash with an unknown 4something Trek of roughly the same year it was immediately obvious the Miyata had substantially lighter, nicer tubing.

That Miyata wasn't the perfect bike for me, but it was very well built, held up very well and was a credit to Miyata. And number two on my all-time mileage list with many of those miles not being "kind" miles. Snow, rain, at night, crashed on RR tracks, hit another bike head-on, a solid wall (I fared a lot worse) and many wet leaves, etc. spills.

Ben
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Old 09-14-17, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Piff
Did miyata do production of their mid to high quality models in Japan all the way through the 80s? I've always wondered as the lugs change around 1986 or 87.
My 1990 1000LT was made in Japan.
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Old 09-14-17, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101
Miyata continually upgraded throughout the 1980s. If it were me, I'd wait for one of the late 1980s models with the Miyata Splined tubing (1988+/-)
Everything I've heard about Miyatas always contains this logic. Miyata made their bikes better every year.
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Old 09-14-17, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly
So an '84 610 is double butted with hi-ten fork while an '85 210 is 3ple butted with a manganese fork. I have the former bike and the latter is available, am I missing out on a significantly improved ride if I don't pick it up? They about the same?
What's the good word?
I seem to recall from a different thread that you don't dig laid back angled frames.

I guess if I were you- I'd be looking for a Sport Touring bike- My Trek 400 Elance is my most "aggressively" angled bike- but it's got rack and fender braze ons, room for 32s (and possibly fenders), and the chainstays are long enough that my feet don't hit the panniers.

Check out @bikemig 's Sport Touring thread. I don't know what the corresponding high quality Miyata Sport Touring models were- but as you're comparing to a CrMo/Hi-Ten/Mangalloy bike, that sounds right in the Sport Touring camp.
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Old 09-14-17, 05:37 PM
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Ah! You caught me! That was about concern with frame flex at the BB and ghost shifting on my '84 Trek 610. I tracked the problem down to the jockey arm spring on the rear derailleur. It's working smooth now. And Miyata sports tourer would be either the 610, stiffer than the 1000, or the 710, a "slack" (for a sport bike) framed tri bike. The 710 I love and actually have kept both an '85 and an '86. The '85 is a 60cm with more clearance and the '86 is a 57cm with a Chromo fork. Both have a 57cm top tube so both fit nicely.
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Old 09-14-17, 09:52 PM
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Wasn't the 210 the sport touring model in 83 and up? 710 was the semi pro along with the 91x.
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Old 09-15-17, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly
Ah! You caught me! That was about concern with frame flex at the BB and ghost shifting...

And Miyata sports tourer would be either the 610, stiffer than the 1000...
My 1990 Miyata 1000LT feels more stiff than any other of my bikes. However, it also feels much more stout. This bike is made with the "Splined Triple Butted" tubes. Where none of my tourers are lightweight or particularly nimble- the Miyata is heavier; that translates into a "sure-footedness" that the other bikes don't have- I can see someone translating that into "slow." I haven't gotten out on the Miyata yet, so I don't know how it handles under load. I haven't found the Treks wanting for anything- but then again I've never taken them down the proverbial mountain road with 35+ pounds of equipment.
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Old 09-15-17, 12:29 PM
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That's the other half of it, I have 2 Cannondale ST Series bikes, and they are more rigid AND weigh less than the Miayta semi pro series, weigh FAR less than the touring bikes.
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Old 09-15-17, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rgvg
Wasn't the 210 the sport touring model in 83 and up? 710 was the semi pro along with the 91x.
Miyata didn't officially have a "sport touring" line up. They had the race bikes at the top, the semi pro in the middle, and then the recreational bikes at the bottom. But the semi pro line up had brazes on the drop outs for fenders and not super tight geometry for long distance triathlons where you were mostly alone racing a clock. So not slack geometry, but not tight geometry plus a few brazes... for me they fit in pretty well with sports tourers. At least the 310 and the 710. The 912 was more serious, had a longer top tube and less room for tire clearance. That's why I eventually sold mine. I'll be keeping the 710s though. For me they hit a real sweet spot as a fast stiff light(ish) bike that I can fit 28mm tires on and sprint between lights on my way to work.

The 610 was marketed as a stiffer frame than the 1000, and called a sporty tourer bike, but it's pretty solidly in the grand touring camp, so is the 210 for that matter.
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Old 09-15-17, 01:39 PM
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Get good tires. In this case a good front tire.

Steel is steel. You might, maybe, be able to detect a difference between a light gauge (taper gauge) fork blade and a heavy one. Maybe. You cannot feel different alloys. Triple butted makes the frame a couple grams lighter, does not affect the ride. It would be reasonable to assume that a 610 of any vintage would have refinements and quality beyond what came in a 210 of any vintage. You are not missing a thing by passing on the 210.

You can always feel good tires. They are also easier to store than one more bike.
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