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Confused 196? Ralegh Sports 3 speed

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Confused 196? Ralegh Sports 3 speed

Old 09-19-17, 02:28 PM
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Confused 196? Ralegh Sports 3 speed

I apologize for starting a new thread for this but i am confused...lol

So i picked this up today form $90 and i believe it to be a 1964 Raleigh Sports, the hub has a 64 1 on it and it has the twist style shifter however it has the pointed chain guard I've only seen on the all gold 70's and on the twenty.

I just got it home so i haven't had the chance to remove the lock, also the seat is one called Whiten or something the logo is faded


Serial number on frame is 2147036
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Old 09-19-17, 03:08 PM
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Don't go by Raleigh serial numbers. At best they are confusing - at worst almost meaningless; so look at the hub and the other parts for dates.
I agree that the chain guard looks wrong, but could have come from a bike built by Raleigh for another market.

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Old 09-19-17, 03:15 PM
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Nice rack. Can I say that?
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Old 09-19-17, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule
Nice rack. Can I say that?
-----

Yes, indeed!

Now "headlights" might be another matter...


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Old 09-19-17, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
...the hub has a 64 1 on it and it has the twist style shifter however it has the pointed chain guard I've only seen on the all gold 70's and on the twenty.
So I've only ever seen similar chain guards on Hercules. The twist shifter is also on a couple of hercules as well. This is not a perfect example but the shape is similar in the ebay listing. It isn't perfect but somewhat similar. This one also has a twist shifter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232476862047

These hercules bikes I believe are rebranded raleigh as well

Last edited by Quantumxl; 09-19-17 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 09-19-17, 07:34 PM
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It's hard to say from the small picture if the frame, fenders and chainguard all have matching paint. The sheet metal fenders and chainguards do tend to fade more than the paint on the frame. Even if you figure somebody put Herc or Robin Hood parts on a Raleigh frame, there's still no explanation for the frame color unless somebody made up a custom bike years ago and put Raleigh transfers on it. Doesn't seem likely. I've never seen a Raleigh Sports with wire fender stays. Yet, all the pieces of this bike are consistent with the 1964 hub date. It is a mystery bike. Somewhat less of a mystery if you could look at the bike in the metal and see if the fenders and chainguard really match the frame in color. Then, we'd be left with only a frame of a color nobody has ever seen before.
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Old 09-19-17, 08:26 PM
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Could the saddle be a Wrights? Just a thought since it has some of those letters.
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Old 09-19-17, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 2cam16
Could the saddle be a Wrights? Just a thought since it has some of those letters.
It is indeed. I am leaning more towards this possibly being a rebranded hercules but I need to do some more digging.
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Old 09-19-17, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Quantumxl
So I've only ever seen similar chain guards on Hercules. The twist shifter is also on a couple of hercules as well. This is not a perfect example but the shape is similar in the ebay listing. It isn't perfect but somewhat similar. This one also has a twist shifter.

Vtg. Hercules Bicycle Bike England 26" wheels 19.5 frame black / white | eBay

These hercules bikes I believe are rebranded raleigh as well
Raleigh bought out Herc in 1960 so yeah, there was some of this kind of stuff going on.

Does it name a city on the headbadge? Nottingham is Raleigh, Birmingham is Hercules.
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Old 09-19-17, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
It is indeed. I am leaning more towards this possibly being a rebranded hercules but I need to do some more digging.
Cool. Looks like it has some shared parts too with my 1962 Huffy Sportsman:
DSC_8164 by 2cam16, on Flickr
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Old 09-19-17, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 2cam16
Cool. Looks like it has some shared parts too with my 1962 Huffy Sportsman:
DSC_8164 by 2cam16, on Flickr
I checked the head badge and it says Nottingham. The mystery continues lol. Btw that's one nice Huffy!
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Old 09-19-17, 10:09 PM
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It has some of the key elements of a true Raleigh, including the "thimble" fork crown, and heron cranks, but is lacking some that were standard later on, including the double braced fenders with painted braces, and (maybe?) te welded on chainguard brackets.

So, I suspect it's either earlier, and/or made for another market.
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Old 09-20-17, 04:54 AM
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A 64 Raleigh rebrand sounds just right. Unusual because it has the Heron crankset but as noted, the wedge chain guard shows up often Hercs, AMF's a few Western Autos and other. Typical of that mid 60's design, nice 3 speed.
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Old 09-20-17, 05:23 AM
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It does get confusing. By the mid 60s Raleigh bought out most of it's major English competitors and manufactured bikes with their badges at their factory in Nottingham. On top of that, they made bikes for department stores, big retailers and other brands with whatever badge they wanted. Bikes like that beautiful blue Huffy stepthrough are actually Raleigh made light roadsters. But usually, Raleigh kept certain features for only it's Raleigh badged bikes. The Raleigh Sports was only available in certain colors, had welded on fender stays, Raleigh pattern rims which were specially designed to use either rod or caliper brakes, thimble forks, heron chainwheels, heron lamp bracket, single bolt brake levers, aluminum kick stands, leather Brooks saddles and heavier grips with finger notches like the Dare grips. If you had asked me if Raleigh ever used a twist grip shifter or a Jetson chainguard on their Sports models, I would have said no. But here's one. And it looks original to me.
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Old 09-20-17, 07:50 AM
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Lot's of them out there. I've had at least 2. Even wire stays made their way into the home brand but not on this one.

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Old 09-20-17, 10:54 AM
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man that is one gorgeous Raleigh!

So i washed it today and yes the fenders are faded and not of the welded type but the stays are bolted on behind the rear reflector.

I also noticed that it did not have the Made in England transfer on the top bar. Also it does not have the R nuts on the seat or crank arms (not sure if this is normal for that year)

Here's some bigger pics at my Flickr
https://www.flickr.com/photos/142806785@N03/
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Old 09-20-17, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
Lot's of them out there. I've had at least 2. Even wire stays made their way into the home brand but not on this one.

Wow, that is sharp. Well, there's another one. I wonder if this Sports was only for the Canadian market or maybe made at Raleigh's Canadian facility. In all these years, I have never seen one before.
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Old 09-20-17, 05:30 PM
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It's possible. I've got a copy of the Merchants Trading Ltd catalogue for 1965 with price list. It seems they had Raleighs distribution rights in Canada and it has some info I hadn't noticed before. The chainguard was called a 'Swept Wing' and could be bought separately. The wire stays were called 'hairpins' for obvious reasons. I'll scan it this winter.

OP, sorry to get off track. Even without the Made in England decal, it's the real deal. Rebuild it, clean it, wax it and ask questions. R nuts happened in the later half of the 60's.
It's a nice bike.

Last edited by clubman; 09-20-17 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 09-20-17, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
It's possible. I've got a copy of the Merchants Trading Ltd catalogue for 1965 with price list. It seems they had Raleighs distribution rights in Canada and it has some info I hadn't noticed before. The chainguard was called a 'Swept Wing' and could be bought separately. The wire stays were called 'hairpins' for obvious reasons. I'll scan it this winter.

OP, sorry to get off track. Even without the Made in England decal, it's the real deal. Rebuild it, clean it, wax it and ask questions. R nuts happened in the later half of the 60's.
It's a nice bike.
No worries man just nice to have a direction on where it was from.
Would you say I should renovate it cause the paint is pretty gone in some places but I love patina so... also where does one begin on a rebuild?
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Old 09-20-17, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
No worries man just nice to have a direction on where it was from.
Would you say I should renovate it cause the paint is pretty gone in some places but I love patina so... also where does one begin on a rebuild?
They're charming bikes but not worth sinking lots of money into it. I'd keep the patina, the frame will look fab with the right treatment. The SA grip shift is a high risk fix. They don't work well so consider switching to a standard trigger shifter and new cables. Everything you want to know about 3 speeds is found here. Read it and come back with questions. If you don't want to tackle the repairs you'll have to find a local bike shop who likes doing these or they'll charge you a bundle. I'd say try it out yourself.

Disassemble, clean frame and touch up if needed. Wax.
Repack with new bearings in BB and hubs.
True wheels. New tires if necessary
Replace and lube cables if necessary
Replace brake pads and dial in brakes.
New shifter and cable.
Brooks saddle? Your mattress saddle is usually uncomfortable

Last edited by clubman; 09-20-17 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 09-20-17, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
They're charming bikes but not worth sinking lots of money into it. I'd keep the patina, the frame will look fab with the right treatment. The SA grip shift is a high risk fix. They don't work well so consider switching to a standard trigger shifter and new cables. Everything you want to know about 3 speeds is found here. Read it and come back with questions. If you don't want to tackle the repairs you'll have to find a local bike shop who likes doing these or they'll charge you a bundle. I'd say try it out yourself.

Disassemble, clean frame and touch up if needed. Wax.
Repack with new bearings in BB and hubs.
True wheels. New tires if necessary
Replace and lube cables if necessary
Replace brake pads and dial in brakes.
New shifter and cable.
Brooks saddle? Your mattress saddle is usually uncomfortable
Thanks a ton, i knew of the site but there was so much on there i got lost...lol
I also have a 73 sports and a 69 Triumph ladies 3 speed so that site and everyone's help here will be invaluable

Thank for the breakdown, i think i may begin the disassembly after reading, with pics of course!
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Old 09-20-17, 07:44 PM
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You could also clear coat the frame,fork, and other body parts. That's what I did to my blue bike. Patina is still in there. Just under a clear coat.
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Old 09-20-17, 09:22 PM
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@clubman
I have that same light bracket as the gold one you posted but no lamp, are they hard to acquire and how does it work as I saw no wires?

@2cam16
I may just do that as I like the over all look except the rear fender it’s pretty bad. I also want to preserve what’s left of the decals !
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Old 09-21-17, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk

@2cam16
I may just do that as I like the over all look except the rear fender it’s pretty bad. I also want to preserve what’s left of the decals !
That's the reason why I clear most of my bikes, to preserve the decals.
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Old 09-22-17, 03:10 PM
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questions:
1. How hard is it to find a headlight for these?
2. I have plenty of info on dismantling a rear hub but not the front and mine have a weird clip around it i assume it's for lubrication?
1964 Raleigh Sports 3 speed by David Ashe, on Flickr
3. Are truing steel wheels any different than alloy?
4. Any good sources for shifter cables as mine is missing completely and i need the barrel part as well.

Last and dumb question, is there a way to make the bike a bit lower overall, meaning smaller diameter tires? It's a bit high for my 5'6" self ...lol I can ride it but close if you know what i mean

Last edited by Scipunk; 09-22-17 at 03:36 PM.
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