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Sakae Ringyo (SR) when did they start?

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Sakae Ringyo (SR) when did they start?

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Old 12-30-17, 12:18 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by pcb View Post
So when I left they were already in the process of combining operations, and offering complete product groups combining their products. SR cranks had replaced all, or at least most, of the Sugino cranks. I remember thinking it didn't much matter, since almost nobody would risk spec'ing a Suntour bike any more. Product mgrs would spec a single Suntour bike just to keep Shimano from having 100% spec in their line, but they wouldn't order more than a handful.
30 odd years later and this is the first time I see it outlined that Sakae Ringyo, Suntour, and Sugino were actually separate companies. For years, I'd assumed the 'not Shimano' Japanese components were all from one company - even before whatever mergers actually happened.

Thanks for the info!
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Old 12-30-17, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RandolphCarter View Post
30 odd years later and this is the first time I see it outlined that Sakae Ringyo, Suntour, and Sugino were actually separate companies. For years, I'd assumed the 'not Shimano' Japanese components were all from one company - even before whatever mergers actually happened.

Thanks for the info!
Suntour, SR, and Sugino cooperated while Shimano integrated the whole drive train and brakes. Plus Suntour didn't hop on the indexing train when it became popular.
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Old 12-30-17, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dweenk View Post
Plus Suntour didn't hop on the indexing train when it became popular.
Don't feel that's really a fair assessment. True Shimano jumped on the index shifting bandwagon in 1985 as soon as they could use the Suntour Slant-Parallelogram patent, as it expired in 1984. Index shifting without that capability would have been very difficult, considering even to this day it is used on rear derailleurs! However, to quote from Frank Berto's excellent book "Upgrading Your Bike" from 1988. "Suntour moved decisively. First, they discontinued their narrow-spaced 6-speed freewheel, which had the worst space variations. Next, they made the sprocket spacing uniform on their 5- and 6-speed freewheels. (You can tell the new Suntour freewheels with uniform spacing because they have four notches for a four-spline remover.) Suntour then redesigned all of their rear derailleurs to incorporate both slant parallelograms and top and bottom spring-loaded pivots. Finally, they designed the Accushift levers to accommodate the redesigned Suntour gear train. By the end of 1986, everything was in production. Not a bad year's work." <Bold emphasis mine>

Also, recall Suntour had an indexing system way back in 1969 called the Five-Speed Click. It never took off though, but I'm sure it left an impression for the acceptance of index shifting in the minds of Suntour management. Personally I use a couple of those Ultra 6-speed freewheels on my current friction shift line-ups. I really like those freewheels in that configuration. Also, true that even Mr. Berto rated the Shimano Index shifting rear derailleurs in 1988 as excellent, while the Suntours only got ratings of 'Very Good' . However, in comparison Campagnolo didn't have anything that ranked better than 'Good' or 'Poor' in those 1988 tests for Index Shifting. So the train hopping is indeed relative

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Old 12-31-17, 10:06 PM
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"Sakae" could be a family name. I already knocked back one tall boy heading into the New Year, so I'll inaccurately say that "Ringyo" is a compound noun consisting of the characters for "wheel," "Rin," and "industry," "gyo." "Ringyo" is often used as a part of a company/store name both in bicycles and motorcycles. "Wheel Works" might be a good working translation.

I never heard mention of anyone named Sakae in relation to Sakae Ringyo. Suntour's corporate name was Maeda Kogyo, "Maeda Industries," and we only had one Mr. Maeda, the president. There could have been a Sakae-san at SR that I never heard about, or there could have been no more executives named Sakae left. Or Sakae may not be a family name in this case.

Almost certainly no connection to Sakai Brake & Handlebar, named for its location in Sakai-shi.
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Old 01-01-18, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by pcb View Post
"Sakae" could be a family name. I already knocked back one tall boy heading into the New Year, so I'll inaccurately say that "Ringyo" is a compound noun consisting of the characters for "wheel," "Rin," and "industry," "gyo." "Ringyo" is often used as a part of a company/store name both in bicycles and motorcycles. "Wheel Works" might be a good working translation.

I never heard mention of anyone named Sakae in relation to Sakae Ringyo. Suntour's corporate name was Maeda Kogyo, "Maeda Industries," and we only had one Mr. Maeda, the president. There could have been a Sakae-san at SR that I never heard about, or there could have been no more executives named Sakae left. Or Sakae may not be a family name in this case.

Almost certainly no connection to Sakai Brake & Handlebar, named for its location in Sakai-shi.
You see Paul all that time in Japan has paid off Another bit of information I will be adding to my Sakae Ringyo directory on the computer for future reference.

Thanks
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Old 01-01-18, 11:51 AM
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Sorry @Don Buska, I know this thread is not about translation of Japanese, but I have to ask.

@pcb : I see the word "sangyo" in bicycle company names. I presume "san" and "gyo". What does the "san" transate to?
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Old 01-01-18, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Hummer View Post
Sorry @Don Buska, I know this thread is not about translation of Japanese, but I have to ask.

@pcb : I see the word "sangyo" in bicycle company names. I presume "san" and "gyo". What does the "san" transate to?
Hey that's fine as it's helping us better understand many of these Japanese Bicycle part manufacturers. Per Wikipedia, "Nippon Sangyo (日本産業) which means “Japanese industry” so it appears sangyo equates industry.
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Old 01-01-18, 12:39 PM
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No problem. The translations are better helping us to understand these Japanese manufacturers. Per Wikipedia, Nippon Sangyo (日本産業) which means “Japanese industry”. So sangyo appears to mean industry.
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Old 01-01-18, 01:08 PM
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Paul,

I did a little digging an noticed that in their early ads the HQ was in the Adachi-ku district of Tokyo. A little digging and their is a Sakae-cho (train station and possibly small inner town/community) in that same district. Albeit, Google Maps wasn't much help due to my inability to read any of the Japanese writing.

So there still may be a geographical relationship for the name Sakae.

Don

FYI: Sakae Ringyo Head Office was: 2-16 Aoi, Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan

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Old 01-01-18, 01:11 PM
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@hummer Your questions is very much in line with our understanding of these early Japanese companies. On your question. Per wikipedia: Nippon Sangyo means “Japanese industry”. Thus Sangyo appears to mean 'industry', which would make sense with what you've found.

Don

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Old 01-13-18, 08:01 PM
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Dear Hummer and Don and good friend "pcb" —

The confusion lies between the Osaka and Tokyo references to Sakae —

But I think, Don, this is the answer —

OK!

Here is my update —

So, I have been going through the last hour of fact-checking prior to press on the book. The publisher is already perturbed with my drill-down perfectionism, and as far as I know — they'll still be so many things to correct in a hopeful second edition —

You've quoted me with this post, but if anyone searches online, I'd like the very best information to be out there, or at least in here!

So, there are — as many of you noted — a couple of paths back on Sakae Ringyo –

But I think I've nailed it here, quote —

"Sakae Ringyo Co., Ltd. — Head Office: Adachi-ku Tokyo; President: Shiro Kobayashi: Company President Shiro Kobayashi personally founded Sakae in January, 1947."

Source: Japan BicyclePress, Monday, September 1, 1980, page 11, Column 3

Thanks eveyone,

In Kindness,

William

PS: I updated my former post because those were Osaka roots —

The Sakae Ringyo you want is not in the Kansai region —

More too come in the book if I am not distracted by all the amazing people on this forum —

So here it is:

OK!

Here is my update —

So, I have been going through the last hour of fact-checking prior to press on the book. The publisher is already perturbed with my drill-down perfectionism, and as far as I know — they'll still be so many things to correct in a hopeful second edition —

You've quoted me with this post, but if anyone searches online, I'd like the very best information to be out there, or at least in here!

So, there are — as many of you noted — a couple of paths back on Sakae Ringyo –

But I think I've nailed it here, quote —

"Sakae Ringyo Co., Ltd. — Head Office: Adachi-ku Tokyo; President: Shiro Kobayashi: Company President Shiro Kobayashi personally founded Sakae in January, 1947."

Source: Japan BicyclePress, Monday, September 1, 1980, page 11, Column 3

Thanks eveyone,

In Kindness,

William
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Old 01-14-18, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by classicjapanese View Post
"Sakae Ringyo Co., Ltd. — Head Office: Adachi-ku Tokyo; President: Shiro Kobayashi: Company President Shiro Kobayashi personally founded Sakae in January, 1947."

Source: Japan BicyclePress, Monday, September 1, 1980, page 11, Column 3
Thank you William. That's the kind of sourcing I like to see, especially something from the Japanese bicycling industry press.

One thing I did notice was in Berto's excellent article 'Sunset for Suntour' he states, "At the end of 1994, Mori decided to shut down their bicycle component business in March, 1995. Daisuke Kobayashi and Hideo Hashizume, the former owners of SR Sakae Ringyo, arranged a management buyout."


I wonder if Daisuke was the son of Shiro?
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Old 01-14-18, 01:19 PM
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@classicjapanese, thank-you for your research into Sakae Ringyo.

In your post you talk about a forthcoming book and a publisher. I am intrigued.

Is there a title for the book and when will it be published? Will the book be available in English?

Again, thank-you for all your efforts.
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Old 01-14-18, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hummer View Post
@classicjapanese, thank-you for your research into Sakae Ringyo.

In your post you talk about a forthcoming book and a publisher. I am intrigued.

Is there a title for the book and when will it be published? Will the book be available in English?

Again, thank-you for all your efforts.
I'll reply for William. The book has been mentioned on the Bike Forum before (by Scott the second author) so I'm sure they won't mind.

Japanese Steel: Classic Bicycle Design from Japan
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Old 01-14-18, 04:27 PM
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Thanks @Don Buska
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Old 01-14-18, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Buska View Post
Thank you William. That's the kind of sourcing I like to see, especially something from the Japanese bicycling industry press.

One thing I did notice was in Berto's excellent article 'Sunset for Suntour' he states, "At the end of 1994, Mori decided to shut down their bicycle component business in March, 1995. Daisuke Kobayashi and Hideo Hashizume, the former owners of SR Sakae Ringyo, arranged a management buyout."


I wonder if Daisuke was the son of Shiro?
I would assuredly think so — in my next trip to Japan I will ask that question; but father-to-son (sometimes younger brother) are the most common transfers in those days.
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Old 01-14-18, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Buska View Post
I'll reply for William. The book has been mentioned on the Bike Forum before (by Scott the second author) so I'm sure they won't mind.

Japanese Steel: Classic Bicycle Design from Japan
Thanks Don! and thank you Hummer! — fact checking day and night and still discovering things---

So when did Shimano first use the Dura-Ace name and what component was that name upon?

I have 1992 upon cranksets, anyone have an earlier date than that?
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Old 01-14-18, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by classicjapanese View Post
Thanks Don! and thank you Hummer! — fact checking day and night and still discovering things---

So when did Shimano first use the Dura-Ace name and what component was that name upon?

I have 1992 upon cranksets, anyone have an earlier date than that?
I always use Velobase as my primary source of vintage part investigation, I also update info there when I have it. They have a Dura-Ace crank in 1973 model GA-200. Can't be much help in general on Shimano as I tend to lean Suntour most of the time. Albeit, I do have some Dura-Ace (7400 Series) stuff on a Bridgestone bike.

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