'71ish Gitane Super Corsa frame question prior to build.
10-12-17, 10:32 AM
#26
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+1. Stick a wheel in it, and see where you're at.
10-12-17, 10:36 AM
#27
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10-12-17, 06:23 PM
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@unworthy1 Campagnolo dropouts and forkends.
Untitled by irishbx4th, on Flickr
Untitled by irishbx4th, on Flickr
@satbuilder Yes it is. This should be an enjoyable build.
Untitled by irishbx4th, on FlickrUntitled by irishbx4th, on Flickr@satbuilder Yes it is. This should be an enjoyable build.
I had a "70 era TdF that also had this "leaf" staycap feature and was pretty nicely brazed, or so I thought at the time. It had Simplex forged DOs with the "finger" on the NDS, Simplex forkends. It looked VERY sharp after I had new paint sprayed by Ed Litton! He also brazed the Campy RD boss to the DO and some other nice braze-ons. Too bad I sold that thing during a house-move!
10-12-17, 09:11 PM
#29
my name is Jim
So this was previously my bike. Definitely a Super Corsa, almost certainly a '72 or '73 as when it came to me it was all original. Believe it had Mafac centerpulls. It also had badly faded paint, spider rust under the paint and scorched decals. Hence the attempt at a repaint (after removing all the spider rust) which I badly botched. Not wanting to put any more time into it I sold it. Definitely a Super Corsa though and definitely Campy dropouts.
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10-13-17, 06:09 AM
#30
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CV6
Given that other Gitanes never show more than the most basic competence at metalwork it is hard to imagine where the factory would have found the employees who could do a fair copy of a master's work. In OP's photo 3 the stay plates form a graceful arch when viewed from behind. You can look at those Carrι plates from any angle and they will show grace. Factory hands can't do that. The signature and documentation you are looking for is written in metal.
Given that other Gitanes never show more than the most basic competence at metalwork it is hard to imagine where the factory would have found the employees who could do a fair copy of a master's work. In OP's photo 3 the stay plates form a graceful arch when viewed from behind. You can look at those Carrι plates from any angle and they will show grace. Factory hands can't do that. The signature and documentation you are looking for is written in metal.
10-13-17, 10:11 AM
#31
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Respectfully, I must disagree with 63rickert's assertion that Gitanes never showed more than basic competence.
Have a look at this Gitane's seat stay caps and compare them with the OP's.
Unfortunately, the majority of TdFs and Super Corsas I have seen came from the period when Gitane simply swaged the seat stay caps. Later in the 70s they came back with an emblem stamped into them to make them distinctive.
EDIT: Look at this B. Carre-built frame and its seat stay caps. The shape on these and the other Carre seat stay ends I see online look like they are slightly more diamond-shaped, less rounded than the Gitanes. Maybe it's just my eyes ....
Have a look at this Gitane's seat stay caps and compare them with the OP's.
Unfortunately, the majority of TdFs and Super Corsas I have seen came from the period when Gitane simply swaged the seat stay caps. Later in the 70s they came back with an emblem stamped into them to make them distinctive.
EDIT: Look at this B. Carre-built frame and its seat stay caps. The shape on these and the other Carre seat stay ends I see online look like they are slightly more diamond-shaped, less rounded than the Gitanes. Maybe it's just my eyes ....
Last edited by rustystrings61; 10-13-17 at 10:14 AM.
10-13-17, 10:51 AM
#32
Old guy on a Bike
Here is a '70 Gitane catalog showing both options for brakes Mafac Racer Luxe and Campy:
10-13-17, 12:49 PM
#33
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@greg3rd48, I probably have the brake doodad you would need if you decide to use center-pull brakes.
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10-13-17, 01:06 PM
#34
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@noglider Fantastic! That is the route I am looking to go. Hopefully there is no problem with the reach.
10-13-17, 01:09 PM
#35
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CV6
Given that other Gitanes never show more than the most basic competence at metalwork it is hard to imagine where the factory would have found the employees who could do a fair copy of a master's work. In OP's photo 3 the stay plates form a graceful arch when viewed from behind. You can look at those Carrι plates from any angle and they will show grace. Factory hands can't do that. The signature and documentation you are looking for is written in metal.
Given that other Gitanes never show more than the most basic competence at metalwork it is hard to imagine where the factory would have found the employees who could do a fair copy of a master's work. In OP's photo 3 the stay plates form a graceful arch when viewed from behind. You can look at those Carrι plates from any angle and they will show grace. Factory hands can't do that. The signature and documentation you are looking for is written in metal.
Don't get me wrong. I would enjoy if it were proven to be a Carrι. It would only add to his story. I have four Lejeunes that likely came from his shop and three B. Carrι marked frames. So my interest is a bit above casual.
10-13-17, 02:38 PM
#36
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rustystrings
What you are looking at there, IMO, is another not-a-Gitane. In the 80s there were also a small number of Alain Michel built frames stickered as Gitanes. Not sure if those were team only or if they could also be purchased. Sure can be purchased now, they come up regularly. Carrι had a number of variations on the theme, it is still not hard at all to recognize his caps.
CV6
Ok, agree to disagree. Am a little jealous, I only have one. Just got off it. If this Luddite could post pics I would. Extra short lugs, so heavily brass-filled and finely tapered they can look as if a fillet braze from ten feet. Plates are stamped. Ride is amazing, something new and never experienced in a lifetime on bikes. Foolishly sold the Gitane stickered bike but no room here for seven of anything. If you wanted to consider the issue further you could try looking at how other builders do overlapping plates. It is not an easy trick to pull off. Even great builders as Norman Taylor or Renι Andre had, again IMO, less success with it than Carrι. Or ask a builder you know for his opinion.
What you are looking at there, IMO, is another not-a-Gitane. In the 80s there were also a small number of Alain Michel built frames stickered as Gitanes. Not sure if those were team only or if they could also be purchased. Sure can be purchased now, they come up regularly. Carrι had a number of variations on the theme, it is still not hard at all to recognize his caps.
CV6
Ok, agree to disagree. Am a little jealous, I only have one. Just got off it. If this Luddite could post pics I would. Extra short lugs, so heavily brass-filled and finely tapered they can look as if a fillet braze from ten feet. Plates are stamped. Ride is amazing, something new and never experienced in a lifetime on bikes. Foolishly sold the Gitane stickered bike but no room here for seven of anything. If you wanted to consider the issue further you could try looking at how other builders do overlapping plates. It is not an easy trick to pull off. Even great builders as Norman Taylor or Renι Andre had, again IMO, less success with it than Carrι. Or ask a builder you know for his opinion.
10-13-17, 04:36 PM
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Interesting to see that the TdF was actually lighter than the Super Corsa. Must be the Delrin.
10-13-17, 07:22 PM
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The Super Corsa I owned came with sidepulls. And the finish was not anywhere near the finish on the OP's frame.
Gitane Super Corsa by L Travers, on Flickr
Gitane Super Corsa by L Travers, on Flickr
10-15-17, 12:56 AM
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10-18-17, 06:13 AM
#42
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The frame was dropped off yesterday at the PC shop. I have used them previously and was very pleased with their work. In a few weeks the build shall commence.
10-18-17, 09:53 AM
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Love the discussion so far as I've got a maybe-Carre shop LeJeune from the early 70s. As to the question of which brakes, I'll put a vote in for Mafac Competition center pulls. I love mine. The shortest reach mafac models have "451" stamped on the back of the centerpull plate. Look for that in your search. These plates work with other models and years of racers and competition brakes, though not raids because the post spacing is wider for Raids. There also was an "adjustable" back plate which I think mainly gives you more reach and looks like a longer rectangle around the brake bolt hole (with vertical lines for grip within the casting around that brake hole). Racers marked "dural forge" have the brass bushings of later competitions. Competitions with Peugeot or Simplex stickers sometimes sell for less money. I also prefer the competition models with a quick release straddle cable. The earliest generation of competitions have a straddle cable with adjustable length and the quick release tab. Kool Stop 4-dot pads also a great upgrade for these brakes.
Good luck!
Good luck!
10-19-17, 10:25 AM
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Edit: "Spidel" marked competitions, not "simplex."
10-01-19, 09:58 AM
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@greg3rd48, I probably have the brake doodad you would need if you decide to use center-pull brakes.
10-02-19, 09:30 AM
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My small parts are in disarray, but I will take a look. Also, I'll soon give you an update on that mixte bike. I'll be working on it at the coop.
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When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments. Elizabeth West, US author
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10-02-19, 05:18 PM
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Not to throw "cold water" and in this case it really isn't cold at all, but would this be a Super Corsa given the centerpull brake bridge or more likely a Tour de France with Campy dropouts? We know Gitane substituted dropout brands with cheerful abandon and since the fork's gone we don't know what forkends came with it...I just thought Gitane left the CP hanger bridge OFF the SC which came with Campy sidepulls. But then again, it IS Gitane in the '70s, so all bets are off. 
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10-02-19, 06:40 PM
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So I am in no way staying close to OEM on this build. I am just enjoying the process and probably will adjust many aspects later on as usually happens. I found a bit of free time to install the French thread VO headset, and stem with Nitto bars. I also put in the 26.4mm seatpost and the seatpost binder bolt. A little progress and hopefully more tomorrow.
10-02-19, 07:06 PM
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I thought you might, which I why I mentioned it. I found that even the short reach "RACER" was too long. The MAFAC "Competition" should work, though. I didn't have a pair available at the time for my TdF, so I mounted Weinmann 500 sidepulls for the time being. As you can see, even those are at their limit:
I know the mafac competitions were original equipment on many of these early Gitanes. According to velobase the reach is not all that different between the competitions and the racers:
Competitions: reach from 49 mm to 59 mm
Racers: reach from 53 mm to 58 mm
Last edited by bikemig; 10-02-19 at 07:10 PM.
10-03-19, 04:52 AM
#50
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Mafac Competition straddle cables
Search for mafac cable from seller "allcampagnolo" on the big auction site. I bought a pair of new stainless steel cables recently; just the ticket.
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