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Sad Bianchi Story

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Sad Bianchi Story

Old 10-26-17, 04:23 PM
  #26  
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This is such a pretty bike; that's a tough one.
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Old 10-26-17, 04:38 PM
  #27  
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I don't think you should have had to notice this, whoever stripped this down or evaluated it for sale should have noticed and disclosed it, period. We here are a detail oriented lot by nature and design, this is what a lot of this is all about. The devil is in the details at all times, rare, vintage, period correct, NOS, OEM, patina, restored, resto mod, ad nauseum, it's what we do and why we are here. It makes for great finds, stories, tales and is key in the stewardship we have all "bought" into literally and figuratively


Originally Posted by artclone View Post
Thanks all for the great ideas. I'm going to explore all the options.


Here's one of the pictures the seller sent me before I purchased. I feel like I should have noticed. Hindsight is 20/20 . . .


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Old 10-26-17, 05:24 PM
  #28  
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It's the seller's responsibility to disclose things like structural cracks. Even if the seller somehow didn't notice it, it is still their responsibility. If it was sold explicitly "as is" responsibility may be fuzzier, but IMO even then something like a crack should have been mentioned.

At any rate, yeah, there are lots of hack repairs that would fix this frame to the point of casual ride-ability, and IMO you should do none of them. When originally sold, this was a ~ $5000 bike (adjusted for inflation). It should be repaired properly.
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Old 10-26-17, 05:54 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
At any rate, yeah, there are lots of hack repairs that would fix this frame to the point of casual ride-ability, and IMO you should do none of them. When originally sold, this was a ~ $5000 bike (adjusted for inflation). It should be repaired properly.
I suppose the question is how much the actual frame cost.

I see quite a few Colnago frames for sale, a lot of fairly nice ones for < $500 if one is patient. I haven't been watching Bianchi Super Leggera frames.

The general consensus seems to be that a repaint causes a moderate reduction in value, and presumably that would also include a frame repair, no matter how well done.

So, one ends up with a pretty tight budget as to whether or not a repair is worth it. It is easy to get beyond the value to take the bike to any big time repair shops. So, for better or worse, one might end up to turn to smaller builders anyway.

Also the question is whether a repair will make it worse. Destroying a lug? One might go with the idea of riding it until it breaks, then decide if one wishes to go ahead and fix it.
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Old 10-26-17, 06:00 PM
  #30  
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Wow, that really hurts. I had the same frame several years ago in a 59cm (c-c tt). A wonderful riding frame; had to sell as it was too big for me. Your 54 on the other hand.... I would agree with you, explore some of the remedies discussed here to try to save the build. If, on the other hand, you decide to disassemble and sell the Campy group, I would be interested in buying.
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Old 10-26-17, 06:04 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by artclone View Post
Since the crack is below the clamp, the tube at the crack will compress when I sit and be in tension when I push down on the pedals. It will spread around the circumference in short order.
It doesn't matter. The crack can totally circle the tube if it wants, and you won't have a problem because the tube can't move out of position with a seatpost shoved down it.

If it was a top or down tube then I'd be worried, but with this I'd only be bothered about if it makes a noise.
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Old 10-26-17, 06:11 PM
  #32  
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You'd think an aluminum seatpost used with the minimum amount of insert would have prevented that kind of stress... prior owner must have been a 300 lb idiot.
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Old 10-26-17, 06:16 PM
  #33  
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As the seat post isn't bonded to the seat tube, the ST can move about in the situation noted. The flexible action of the other tubes of the frame will allow the ST to move (even if it is a slight movement) in an eccentric fashion depending on the flexion, and further damage the frame and potentially endanger the OP should he ride this frame (which I don't expect.) The seat post should not be so tight fitting as to immobilize the ST, otherwise the post would bind and not come out.

That crack will most likely propagate if the frame is ridden, and then the fun will begin, with crying included.

Bill
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Old 10-26-17, 07:49 PM
  #34  
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If we consider why this frame is still in "one piece", perhaps it's because this likely overheat-caused crack traveled along it's highest-stress trajectory, but then met with the very long vertical reinforcing tang of the seat lug.


I can't see the other end of the crack, but I used a drill to terminate TWO cracks under the upper eyes of the seatstays on my Windsor Profesional. These cracks resulted from milling the seatpost-clamping bore too close to the seatpost axis, and both even reached the slot at the back of the seat tube, but I terminated their outward/forward ends with a 1/8" drill bit and have done quite a bit of riding on it since then.


I'm not sure where this crack will head to from here. Where it ends at the tang is suddenly a lower-stress condition to say the least, so it has stabilized. The other end is hidden apparently, so why not use a drill to terminate it if there is access for such a procedure. If needed (for access), the hole could be drilled a few mm ahead of where the rearward end of the crack seems headed, so there is less risk of the hole not quite reaching the end of the crack.


Can you verify whether my assumptions about the locations of this crack's ends are correct?


I don't recommend glue, and the stresses while riding off of the saddle will stress even the existing structure quite significantly even after any relief holes are drilled, but again the fact that this frame is still as one suggests that some stabilizing has occurred due to stress relief, which can now be enhanced with a radius at the crack's ends.


Lastly, I would give serious consideration to any information that can be found comparing the weight and riding style of the previous rider versus the current one. A heavy rider attacking steep climbs while off of the saddle over bumpy ground will stress this crack much more than a more-average rider imo.


I ride three steel frames with years-old crack defects about the seatpost clamping area (a Merckx, a Windsor and a Schwinn Voyageur), and I still ride them. Having several bikes to choose from lessens my worries about any of these cracks spreading in real time. Oddly enough, these are the only cracks that I have ever encountered on used-bike purchases, though I have found all kinds of cracks on frames of bikes that I did not purchase.
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Old 10-26-17, 08:30 PM
  #35  
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It is likely already cracked under the seatstay cap - - you can see a touch of rust in this rear pic. The crack is likely following the edge of the lug, which is keeping it from meeting the slot.



And the inside shows the crack ending right about at that rust spot:








Originally Posted by dddd View Post
If we consider why this frame is still in "one piece", perhaps it's because this likely overheat-caused crack traveled along it's highest-stress trajectory, but then met with the very long vertical reinforcing tang of the seat lug.


I can't see the other end of the crack, but I used a drill to terminate TWO cracks under the upper eyes of the seatstays on my Windsor Profesional. These cracks resulted from milling the seatpost-clamping bore too close to the seatpost axis, and both even reached the slot at the back of the seat tube, but I terminated their outward/forward ends with a 1/8" drill bit and have done quite a bit of riding on it since then.


I'm not sure where this crack will head to from here. Where it ends at the tang is suddenly a lower-stress condition to say the least, so it has stabilized. The other end is hidden apparently, so why not use a drill to terminate it if there is access for such a procedure. If needed (for access), the hole could be drilled a few mm ahead of where the rearward end of the crack seems headed, so there is less risk of the hole not quite reaching the end of the crack.


Can you verify whether my assumptions about the locations of this crack's ends are correct?


I don't recommend glue, and the stresses while riding off of the saddle will stress even the existing structure quite significantly even after any relief holes are drilled, but again the fact that this frame is still as one suggests that some stabilizing has occurred due to stress relief, which can now be enhanced with a radius at the crack's ends.


Lastly, I would give serious consideration to any information that can be found comparing the weight and riding style of the previous rider versus the current one. A heavy rider attacking steep climbs while off of the saddle over bumpy ground will stress this crack much more than a more-average rider imo.


I ride three steel frames with years-old crack defects about the seatpost clamping area (a Merckx, a Windsor and a Schwinn Voyageur), and I still ride them. Having several bikes to choose from lessens my worries about any of these cracks spreading in real time. Oddly enough, these are the only cracks that I have ever encountered on used-bike purchases, though I have found all kinds of cracks on frames of bikes that I did not purchase.

Last edited by artclone; 10-26-17 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 10-26-17, 08:45 PM
  #36  
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One thing that the crack is unlikely to do is move into a thicker-section area as where a lug overlaps a tube, or where the stay is fused to the tubing or lug.
So as you said it follows the edge of such areas of redundant thickness, as any change of cross-sectional thickness causes a local peak of stress. But while the stress along this route may not be quite uniform, it likely will continue through the thin seattube heading rearward.


If a hole can be drilled in a location where there is redundant thickness, while still having the crack reach there, the stress around the small-diameter hole radius will be greatly reduced, so a permanent fix may result.
It might even be a good idea to file a path from the hole to the end of the crack if needed, if this can enable the hole being in a low-stress area with redundant thickness (i.e. through the lug). The crack will likely never spread through the much greater thickness of the lug and seattube overlap, and is also very unlikely to change direction along a path of lower stress, i.e. taking a trajectory perpendicular to the existing crack.

Last edited by dddd; 10-26-17 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 10-26-17, 09:33 PM
  #37  
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That's really too bad. I'd have missed that crack if were not wearing my reading glasses, guaranteed. If it were me, and I really wanted to ride it I'd fix my saddle height, coat the inside of the seat tube with JB Weld and slide that post in permanently. At least that way, if the crack propagated the now-stuck post would hold everything together.

I'd have to imagine the rider of this small bike will be relatively small as well? Chances are the weight carried by this mod wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary.

I hate to see something as beautiful as this go to waste, as it were. It deserves thousands of miles, tho I wouldn't do a repair/repaint/rechrome myself. Tough to match Celeste.

Good luck with whatever approach you take on this.

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Old 10-27-17, 06:55 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
It's the seller's responsibility to disclose things like structural cracks. Even if the seller somehow didn't notice it, it is still their responsibility. If it was sold explicitly "as is" responsibility may be fuzzier, but IMO even then something like a crack should have been mentioned.

At any rate, yeah, there are lots of hack repairs that would fix this frame to the point of casual ride-ability, and IMO you should do none of them. When originally sold, this was a ~ $5000 bike (adjusted for inflation). It should be repaired properly.
Well, those are all good points and fundamentally correct at one level but in the present circumstance I disagree.

To the Bianchi enthusiast, I assume the wow factor of this bike is the condition of the finish, both paint and chrome. A proper repair (new seat tube) will cost a few hundred dollars, followed by new chrome for another hundred, followed by new paint for several hundred, I'm guessing this adds up to $700-$900, which is more than either the repaired frame or the same frame in the same cosmetic condition (but without the crack) would bring on eBay. So, in other words, not worth it.
With that in mind, I think the challenge is to find a way to ride the bike enough to get to know it before throwing money at it while not causing further damage. It may well be that OP doesn't like the way it rides; better find that out sooner than later!

If the bike proves to be divine, the Best Bike Ever, the bike that makes you sell all the others, then you have the dilemma whether to proceed with the expensive repair after which you may find the ride is no longer quite divine.

Put that another way: it's a gamble. Whether you gamble at low stakes or high stakes, the payoff is the same.
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Old 10-27-17, 08:19 AM
  #39  
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Yeah, good points @rhm about not throwing money at it if I haven't even made sure I like the ride and fit.

in this case I hope to get a refund and then purchase a similar frameset I have my eye on. Fingers crossed. Man plans, God laughs or whatever the saying is.











Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Well, those are all good points and fundamentally correct at one level but in the present circumstance I disagree.

To the Bianchi enthusiast, I assume the wow factor of this bike is the condition of the finish, both paint and chrome. A proper repair (new seat tube) will cost a few hundred dollars, followed by new chrome for another hundred, followed by new paint for several hundred, I'm guessing this adds up to $700-$900, which is more than either the repaired frame or the same frame in the same cosmetic condition (but without the crack) would bring on eBay. So, in other words, not worth it.
With that in mind, I think the challenge is to find a way to ride the bike enough to get to know it before throwing money at it while not causing further damage. It may well be that OP doesn't like the way it rides; better find that out sooner than later!

If the bike proves to be divine, the Best Bike Ever, the bike that makes you sell all the others, then you have the dilemma whether to proceed with the expensive repair after which you may find the ride is no longer quite divine.

Put that another way: it's a gamble. Whether you gamble at low stakes or high stakes, the payoff is the same.
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Old 05-02-20, 01:45 PM
  #40  
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just wanting to confirm that the cage is a Reg and wondering if its AL or steel. I can't find an Al like that one in a Reg anywhere.
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Old 05-03-20, 12:26 PM
  #41  
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Take a look at this, it might solve your problem...
Ben
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Old 05-03-20, 01:22 PM
  #42  
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Zombie thread.

Hey @artclone if you're still hanging out here, whatever happened? How did this story end?

With 3 years perspective, I'm wondering if that crack could have been TIG'ed and a spot refinish done.
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Old 05-03-20, 01:44 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Zombie thread.

Hey @artclone if you're still hanging out here, whatever happened? How did this story end?

With 3 years perspective, I'm wondering if that crack could have been TIG'ed and a spot refinish done.
The story ended well! I got the money mostly back and found a similar and beautiful Super Corsa instead.

I even got to keep the frame and fork. A local frame builder said it could indeed be repaired, but I didn’t bring it in to discuss how much paint and chrome could be saved. I might sell it here at some point.
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Old 05-03-20, 01:47 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Ride Bianchi View Post
just wanting to confirm that the cage is a Reg and wondering if its AL or steel. I can't find an Al like that one in a Reg anywhere.
It is a Reg, chromed steel.
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Old 05-03-20, 07:51 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Zombie thread.

Hey @artclone if you're still hanging out here, whatever happened? How did this story end?

With 3 years perspective, I'm wondering if that crack could have been TIG'ed and a spot refinish done.
you are right...I have been in isolation way too long!
Isolation, Ben
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Old 05-04-20, 05:44 PM
  #46  
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Thanks for the update and glad to hear the end of a story that ended well.

Hopefully it's not quite the end for that frame and someday it gets repaired and on the road again.
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