pandaparry

Hi,

I recently bought a Pinarello with mainly Campagnolo Super Record Pat'81 components, but I can't figure out which model it is. The frame number is the safest bet, and that is B361. I have read about serial numbers starting with P, R and H, but no luck with B so far...
The decals say it's a SLX (not a Montello, no panto on BB...) and it has a '84 olympic champion decals, but they could have easily come with a respray. So the components and decals would make it a high-level model (although very little chrome), but I can't find anything similar. I have seen enough bikes with decals of higher-level models, but in those cases the components were generally lower-level than Campa SR (with some Panto).
Attached some pictures of some of the bike's features. I was hoping for a 1984 bike to match a '84 Super Record set (my year of birth), but if the bike is not from 1984, I might consider other options.
Thanks a lot!

Kees

Old Fireleg

If it's its original fork and original braze-on FD consol then I think this is a 1982-83 Super Record. And it made from SL tubeset. Are there Porta catena holes on right rear dropout? The engraved chainring looks '84 or larter. The brake calipers are from '83 or earlier. The Super Records were in this era with chrome fork and seat stay end. It is suspicious that painting is not original. What is under primer coat? Chrome or steel?

pandaparry

Thanks for the help! I had to look up the Porta Catena holes, but is has none (is that an indication that it is not a Super Record?). It also seems to be steel beneath the primer. I'm at the moment generally assuming the worst regarding repainted bikes, but I'm not even sure if this one is. The components are high-level, the saddle is some strange Pinarello one (which I have never seen before - see pic), and the paint seems to be on the bike for at least 20 years. Except for the obvious additions (seatpost, cockpit), the bike feels quite original. That would make the bike a 1984 Pinarello Treviso or Super Record with SLX tubing (I read that these exists) and that could also explain the non-standard paint-scheme. I has something similar with a Gazelle 753 where the bike had decals from a year in which 753 tubes were no longer used on their bikes, but it was still original. I will look at the fork number at a later stage, first step is a stuck seatpost...

I might check with Pinarello if they can help with serial numbers, but I have the feeling they might be better with designing bikes than with keeping their administration (especially in those days)... Of course it's not only about what the bike was, but also what it will become, although I might not have 100% certainty regarding age and model. I found something similar on a blog called The Claremontyclist (can't post links yet, but you'll find it when you google Steel Pinarello Treviso claremont). This is the closest I've found in resemblance in color and group to the one I have. The plan (after finishing a '92 Gavia), is to make it similar to the Pinarello Super Record 1984 you can find on speedbicycles.ch. I have the groupset and parts in great shape, now hope I can get the frame in that shape...

Thanks,

Kees

T-Mar

I wouldn't put too much stock in the decals. The palmares decal would typically use white text on a red frame with white logos. Also, the seat tube decal is the style typically employed on frames having two sets of bottle bosses, which this frame does not appear to have.

Similarly it is very much a frankenbike. The post and pedals are obvious replacements. While most of the components appear to be early 1980s Campagnolo Super Record, the shift levers and lower headset stack are more modern. 1981 components codes would tend to indicate 1981 or early 1982, but the frame characteristics seme to be slightly more modern. Did you check the crankarms and hub locknuts, or just the rear derailleur?

Based on frame characteristics, I'd place it circa 1983, possibly 1984, though I'd expect Portacatena dropouts. Are the dropouts Camapgnolo? It's definitely not a Montello based on the chainstay bridge and brake cable tunnels. Assuming the frame hasn't been modified, I'd say a Super Record Special is the best candidate.

However, I'd be doing some more investigation to verify the tubeset. First, I'd verify the seat post diameter. Second, I'd verify that the fork uses a Columbus steerer by checking for the helical ridges inside the bottom of the steerer tube and/or removing the fork to check for the Columbus logo on the outside of the steerer tube. Finally, I'd remove the bottom bracket and check the inside ends of the tubes for the helical ridges indicative of Columbus SLX. Please note that there was an SLX seat tube prior to there being a SLX tubeset, so be sure to check the down tube and chainstay ends.

Old Fireleg

No. But this was one of the characteristics of the better quality Pinarello bicycles between ca. 1978 and 84-85. The two special Pinarello symbol cutouts where the chainstays connected to BB shell proof that this is a top model of Pinarello.
Generally, this non-aero type of fork crown already was not used at that time when they left the holes. In any case, if Campagnolo dropouts are applied without holes, then this refers to a later date of 82-83.
So or the fork was originally made for an another Pinarello (you can see that a spacer is used at the headset) or the bike has been made in a short transition period when the old and the new components were mixed free.
The fact that this really is a SLX tubeset is very small, I prefer SL. But after the disassembly test it decides. If it is SLX then it is a fairly unique piece.

pandaparry

Thanks for the info. Don't know how to find dates on other Campa parts (just rear derailleur), but everything Campa seems to match early 1980s Super Record. Also wheels match, only lower headset stack is Miche (not sure were you see the spacers?). Based on the T-Mar's statement on decals, I assume the SLX is out of place as well, but can only disassemble the bike once the seatpost can be removed (probably will ask for LBS support there). At least the seatpost is 27.2mm, so that is a relief (though I haven't seen a Pinarello with something else so far...).

The fork will be key I guess. Could be that it had to be replaced after a few years, resulting in complete repaint of the bike. I still think it is odd to replace a SL sticker with SLX decals, but you never know how people work. For sure the bike has an overkill of Columbus decals. I will provide an update later, once I have been able to remove all components (so far not only problems with seatpost, but also with brake and cassette).

Best,

Kees

rjhammett

I may have to rethink the age of my Pinarello Record. I always thought it was an '83. It has campy dropouts, portacana holes, slightly sloping chrome crown, both chain stays chrome, cutouts on the bb lugs and braze on front derailleur.

Old Fireleg

The Reynolds Team (Arroyo, Delgado) used the Montello-style aero fork crown (if you think about it) on the '83 TdF. But it is possible that it was released in commerce only in 1984.
Many Record or S.Record with Montello-style fork crown have PC holes. That's why it's an interesting pandaparry's bike.
But very few Montello has PC holes. It is likely that these early pieces

T-Mar

I don't see what removing the seat post has to do with checking for SLX? You have to remove the crankarms and bottom bracket to do the check, as the helical ridges are only at the bottom bracket end of the tubes.

Regarding the date codes, there will be a geometric shape with a number inside it on the back of the crankarms. A diamond indicates 1970s, while a circle indicates early 1980s and the number indicates the last digit of the year. The back side of the hub locknuts will be stamped CAM YY, where YY are the last two digits of the year.

pandaparry

The crankarms are dated 1984 and the hub is 1980. So that doesn't help the original bike theory and makes it more likely that the fork is also from another model than the frame. I wan't to keep the pedals and wheels on the bike to make removing the stuck seatposts easier. From the few things I read, it would be best to keep the components on the bike to make removal easier. Will bring it to the LBS tomorrow to help with the seatpost and after that I can check the ridges.

bbattle

Definitely older than my '83-84 Treviso which was fully chromed but only the chrome meant to be seen was buffed out to a high shine.

The earlier Super Record and Trevisos would have had chrome highlights at least. The Italia (82-83?) does not show chrome.



I'm trying to date the frame only. Going by components on an older bike is a fool's errand unless one knows for certain they are original. Anyone trying to date my bike builds would be pulling their hair out if they looked at the components.
(see my Pinarello pics above)

edit: there is some chrome showing on the fork crown of the Italia. Are you sure your bike has no chrome under that paint?

Old Fireleg

Your bike has pump peg on head tube. It was made at the earliest in 1986 (pegs not yet seen in the '85 catalog)
But pandaparry's bike does not have a peg. In my opinion, panda's bicycle is earlier.
And panda's bike has Pina symbol cutouts on BB shell. It was only on the more expensive models. The Italia model was a cheap type.

Anyway, the many chrome and the Campa dropouts on your bicycle I prefer to think that this is not a Treviso model, but one of the latest Super Record that was already made with a pump peg. Maybe in 1986.
What do you think about T-Mar?

bbattle

Dating these Pinarellos is so frustrating. Heck, even in my name box on the left I have my Pinarello listed as an 1985. Good catch on the pump peg.

I agree Pandaparry's bike is older and not disappointed that my bike could be a Super Record.

Still not sure what model Pandaparry has, though. Need to wait to see if he's got rifling in them tubes.

T-Mar

Bbattle's frame is definitely newer than the stated 1983-984, assuming the brazed-on fittings are OEM. I'd place it 1985-1986. The more extensive chroming suggests a Super Record but I wouldn't rule out a Treviso, as I have nothing on the 1986 models, outside of some Montello advertisements. Identification is complicated by variations in foreign market models and custom/uncatalogued frames.

Wildwood 

Saw another thread about identifying Pinarellos and it got me to searching about my latest purchase. which I have not taken apart for refurb.

So I revived a dead thread from an internet search. It's a short one so good to pull-up.

My new questions:
Is the Pinarello pictured below an '84 Montello?
Is the tubeset SL or SLX?



Driveside - tribute colors to Alexi Grewal's '84 Olympic win. Note: top of TT brake cable, chrome rear triangle


Chainstay bridge showing also the nice chevroned paint/chrome


BB ser# on driveside circumference is D 933

Wildwood 

This frame has seen better days.
Replacement fork - but no sign of front end damage after close inspection by 3 people
2 dents to driveside seatstay.



Dropout


Headbadge


Seat cluster with 'blemishes' on stays. Could it be rolled out??? Yes, i'll watch it.


An identifying label is missing, along with all the decals and tubeset sticker.

Chombi1 

Pesence of a chainstay bridge usually means a Pinarello model, lower than the Montello (Treviso?), with SL tubing. But I think some earlier Record or Montello models (which I think this is probably not, because of its "spumoni"-like paint job colors) might have had the chainstay bridges.)
Also, if there are no reinforcing triangles cast (or forged?) in on the top of the BB with Pinarello patographing on it, a signature feature of the top of the line Montello and I think, the later Gavia models. The top models also had a Pinarello "PG" pantograph, right next to the seatpost clamping ears on the seat lug.
Still a fantastic Pinarello frame as most of us "mortal riders" really cannot feel the difference in riding feel between SLX and SL frames anyway.

Wildwood 

https://saarf.london/2014/04/02/vint...-1985-catalog/

scrolling to the bottom of the link reveals this pic.
same tribute colors but '85 SLX.
Was an '84 Montello = SL???

RobbieTunes

I'm just diggin' Suntour on the jersey with Pinarello.

Wildwood 

….but, butt, butttt
I thought full chromed rear triangle meant Montello.

Is there an '83/'84 catalog online? Pinarello or Gita USA. Free.

I hope it is SL. 2 SLX frames already (Merckx & DeRosa), early 70s Bottecchia is SP, none are SL.

Chombi1 

Oi!!,
Those cycling shoes look familiar......
My Diadoras that my brother from Wisconsin sent to me after hibernating 29 years in his garage attic!
Retired them from use before they wore out, because I transitioned over to clipless pedals back then and these shoes did not have provisions for mounting the LOOK cleats.....
Surprisingly, they still fit!. Now do I try to find a copy of Alexis' Jersey to wear too, when I ride my Montello??

Chombi1 

I thought they were SLX by then, or always were......

Wildwood 

Took a few hours...….

Same chrome rear, chainstay bridge, no decal on top tube. and soooo nice
Here's one from '84 that seems a match.

Pinarello Super Record 1984 - speedbicycles.com
Swiss website.
Columbus SL, as I hoped.
Not identified as a Montello.

Wildwood 

Jersey only if you find a similar style helmet, like in the pic.

With my blotchy red/white/blue/yellow on the bike - Mondrian squares in same colors on a jersey might induce timewarped flashbacks.

Chombi1 

Hmmm..... I look silly enough in most helmets with my XL sized melon,.........a hairnet on it might make people run away when they see me coming up the road!