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Campag 10V down tube shifter retro-fun

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Campag 10V down tube shifter retro-fun

Old 11-14-17, 12:45 PM
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Campag 10V down tube shifter retro-fun

Today I got some vital parts home for a project I have been contemplating for a long time. I have bought parts here and there and as I have not been in a hurry I have got them cheap - taking opportunity of good deals that has been "thrown at me".

I am planning for a vintage/classic frame with Campag Record 10V. The vital parts that I got delivered today was the shifters. As down tube shifters is a must for my build I have been on the look out for a set of 10 speed bar end shifters to convert to down tube mounting. I do already have the right "backing plates" to get them working correctly when used on the down tube bosses.



As can be seen in the picture there is a complete set of bar end 10V shifters and also an extra 10v index ring. I first found and bought the index ring and wanted to find out if it is possible to use it in an older 6 to 8V (two spring) shifter (yet to be tested). Just a day after I bought the ring I found a very good deal on the bar end shifters. The black rubber on the shifters came off easily. There are some sort of dried out glue residue left on the shifters in the picture.

Things I have gathered earlier (period of years):

Hubs - left pair are already built into wheels used on one of my other bikes but the pair to the right is a late version 9V that are compatible with 9 to 11V but still retaining the older more beautiful design of 8V. To these I have a pair of polished H+Son TB14 rims.



Brakes, derailleurs 10V (sellers picture)



Cranks, 10V UD



Frame = Bianchi with a lot of nickel plating and a little celeste paint.

Do not hold breath for updates in this thread. I am still not in a hurry...
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Old 11-14-17, 01:29 PM
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Okay....now THIS is a project......I'll look forward to updates whenever they come...
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Old 11-18-17, 10:39 AM
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You are doing what I've only seen done once, a conversion of 10sp Campy bar ends to DT, and then a killer build with it.

My hat is off to you. If it turns out anywhere near as easy and fun to ride as DA 9sp and 10sp DT shifter setups, then the planets are alignable.

There would be so many Italian bikes upgraded and ridden more often if Campy would just make 10-sp DT shifters. I can list a Cinelli, a Mondonico, a Simoncini, and a D'Arienzo that would still be in my, er, "employ" if so.
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Old 11-18-17, 11:19 AM
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Cool build.

Former forum member Thirdgenbird (Casey, he's still on Paceline) and I went down a similar rabbit hole with one of my early Kvales.

This should be a fun thread to watch.
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Old 11-18-17, 11:34 AM
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All of us bicycle stick shift fans will be watching with interest.
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Old 11-18-17, 12:11 PM
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Currently running 9speed indexed Campy DT shifters on my Merckx. Yes, for stick shift fans, I recommend the setup. I also have a set of 10sp bar ends tucked away for the next build. Nothin' but fun.
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Old 11-18-17, 02:18 PM
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That’s gonna be nice but I want an alloy rear derailleur with all the other shiny parts!
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Old 11-18-17, 02:59 PM
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I totally agree with you.

When I built my credit card tourer that was a "concern"... I put togther a 10V Record triple group and I used bar end shifters (in their intended place). With all the shiny parts and the bling of the frame I just could not stand the Record 10V rear derailleur with its carbon body. Instead I got a shiny Racing triple 9V - that works quite OK with the 10V set up.

For this new build I will use the Record derailleur but I am going to adress the black carbon matter. I am going to "colour code" the carbon parts... My plan is to paint the carbon in celeste and apply a "Record" or "Campagnolo" decal.

Shiny Record 10V with likewise shiny Racing triple rear der:

Last edited by styggno1; 11-18-17 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 11-18-17, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by styggno1 View Post
I totally agree with you.

When I built my credit card tourer that was a "concern"... I put togther a 10V Record triple group and I used bar end shifters (in their intended place). With all the shiny parts and the bling of the frame I just could not stand the Record 10V rear derailleur with its carbon body. Instead I got a shiny Racing triple 9V - that works quite OK with the 10V set up.

For this new build I will use the Record derailleur but I am going to adress the black carbon matter. I am going to "colour code" the carbon parts... My plan is to paint the carbon in celeste and apply a "Record" or "Campagnolo" decal.
I should never have doubted you styggno!
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Old 11-18-17, 05:06 PM
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Watching with interest!
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Old 11-18-17, 08:08 PM
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In terms of cable routing, my cleanest-looking bike is the Bianchi -- slightly anachornistic aero brake levers and original downtube shifters.
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Old 11-19-17, 05:24 AM
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Even though I much prefer bar ends over DT, I still want to know if it can be done.
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Old 11-19-17, 02:32 PM
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It's so nice that time trial bikes keep bar end shifters on the market.
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Old 11-19-17, 03:41 PM
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Yes, but how long before they are all electronic-:shift? Hopefully years. The box store bikes keep 8s and even 7s drive trains alive. I wonder what will keep 10s alive or if that will eventually trickle down to box store bikes?

David “Eight is Enough” in MT
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Old 11-19-17, 11:05 PM
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I've been looking for a set of those shifters. They come up on eBay often enough, but they always sell for more than I'm willing to pay.
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Old 11-20-17, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I've been looking for a set of those shifters. They come up on eBay often enough, but they always sell for more than I'm willing to pay.
Nice that there are interest in my little project... But as I wrote - do not hold breath It will take a while before I get going with this.
@Andy_K
The 10V index ring is cheap to buy separately. I predict that the 9-speed bar end shifters will be cheaper to buy in a near future when 9V freewheels get obsolete or at least difficult to get. It is just to swap the index ring to get the 9V "b e s" to be 10V. If I were you I would buy a 10V index ring now and then just wait for the right 9V opportunity to arise. These bar end shifters are prone to cracking in the plastic base and those are the ones to look for - as that part is not needed for down tube mounting. A 9V cracked pair of "b e s" would be your best bet if not wanting to put too much money in to it - just add a 10 ring.

As I mentioned in my OP I will also test if a 10V index ring will fit old 2-spring Campag indexing 6-8V down tube shifters. Just looking at them seems to support this but I want to test it properly. There is also the option of late 8V Veloce down tube shifters that essentially are the same as the 9 and 10 "b e s" shifters - bar the nice finish and Campagnolo shield logo. They are all 3-spring units.

Last edited by styggno1; 11-20-17 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 11-20-17, 06:24 PM
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I'm doing something similar to your project. I've had a pair of those modified shifters sitting in my stash for years waiting for just the right bike. This winter they will finally be put to use on a dedicated touring bike.
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Old 01-14-18, 12:21 PM
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A picture of the difference between ordinary backing plates (left) and the kind needed for the "modern" shifters.


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Old 01-14-18, 12:44 PM
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This is a very very cool project. The Dura-Ace DT shifters have had this corner of the market for so long, and while I do very much enjoy them on several of my bikes, having a 10-speed Campagnolo setup would be really cool.
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Old 01-14-18, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by styggno1 View Post
A picture of the difference between ordinary backing plates (left) and the kind needed for the "modern" shifters.

Where did you find the modern backing plates?
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Old 01-14-18, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mountaindave View Post
Where did you find the modern backing plates?
Can't answer for the OP, but I made a batch of stainless ones for a group buy over on The Paceline a couple years back.
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Old 01-15-18, 09:14 AM
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So let me get this right... the modern backing plates need that tab to be parallel to one side of the square cutout? (This so I buy some if I ever see any)

I originally considered this idea when I was in a bike shop and the wrench was having a heck of a time mounting Campy bar ends on a tri-bike. When I pointed out they were upside down, as they worked "opposite" of Shimano's, he immediately understood, and we both looked at each other and said "you know, this means we can pull those rubber covers off and use them as DT shifters...!" The backing plate, to give the shifter a "stop" was all that was needed.

Thirdgenbird realized this as well, and I think he did it with an Ironman for his girlfriend, running DT Campy with modern wheels, etc. It was a nice looking bike. I went to the local tri shop and they had 3 sets of 10-sp Campy bar ends just sitting around. I think they wanted $50/set just to get rid of them. I should have picked them up. They are still not expensive in this area. It's finding the backing plates, of course, that is the issue.
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Old 01-15-18, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mountaindave View Post
Where did you find the modern backing plates?
I "found" mine on all the C-record era Campagnolo Syncro shifters I have got on different bike over the years. This of course means one of my Syncro sets will lack its backing plates.

As @nesteel wrote they can be made - and I might add - quite easily. The only thing they do is stop the shifter to go back too far. Any steel with the appropriate thickness and that can be bent would suffice.

They also come up on ebay quite often:
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/CAMPAGNOLO-5...gAAOSw-K9ZL6TS

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Old 01-15-18, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
So let me get this right... the modern backing plates need that tab to be parallel to one side of the square cutout? (This so I buy some if I ever see any)

...snip...
Yes -exactly.
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Old 01-16-18, 01:33 PM
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The plot thickens and small details matter.

There are different versions of the shifter backing plates within the range that has the stop in the right place for this conversion. Never noticed it before but it became obvious when I started to tinker with the shifters. This is something to look out for if anybody else is contemplating doing this.

Three different lengths - left = long, right = short and the three in the middle - of course mid length...



It has its reason but I never thought about it before.

As the number of indexed gears rose above 6-7V and to 8, etc. Campagnolo noticed that there was not enough spool/barrel to wrap the wire around. They had to increase the circumference of the shifter base – otherwise the shifter would end up below the downtube.

Have a look at these three shifters and compare the spool/barrel size. 10V stripped bar end shifter to the left, next is a Syncro II 8V and to the right is the early version Syncro II (6-7V).



The backing plate “stops”, of course, had to be longer to reach further out. (edit - the long version works but so does the middle one - if grinding away circa 1 mm for better clearance)



The bar end shifters were a no brainer to fit after the backing plate thing was discovered. The only other (small) obstacle I noticed was that the shifter boss on the frame had to be very clean, I even had to sand it a little bit (after the first pictures were taken), to get the shifter on. After that everything worked perfectly. I have of course not tested them with rear derailleur etc, but I have no doubt it will work perfectly – as I use these 10V bar end shifters in their intended place on one of my bikes. If anything – with less cable and housing it should work even better.




(Still glue on the shifter from the rubber cover)



Next thing was testing if a “two spring” and “big barrel” 8V, Syncro II, shifter could be used with a 10V insert. I wanted to check it because with that set up one can chose to go index or friction mode with a seconds notice – which is nice if needed (for instance crash damage to derailleur) or if rules (eroica) states friction only.

I swapped the insert and mounted the shifter. Everything went smooth. But… It indexes very, very weak. The first “clicks” almost not at all. I tweaked it by changing washers, parts from other shifters, etc. – but no. I guess there was a reason for changing to a three spring design. Maybe the notches are too small and/or too close together for a two spring set up. As I said – it indexes but not well enough for using. It is a dead end. It is a pity as 8V Syncro II shifters are abundant and the 10V insert cheap. It would have been nice. Close but no cigar…

High hopes



10V insert mounted in 8V shifter



Looks good but - no good. Pity.


Last edited by styggno1; 01-16-18 at 02:02 PM.
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