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-   -   Early 70s Raleigh Competition- Were they all "Mk. II"? (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1128272-early-70s-raleigh-competition-were-they-all-mk-ii.html)

Insidious C. 11-16-17 11:33 PM

Early 70s Raleigh Competition- Were they all "Mk. II"?
 
Yesterday a friend showed me his Raleigh Competition which he purchased new, he thinks around '73. He seemed certain it is not a Mk. II. After a bit of searching it remains unclear to me if there was a Competition model sold in the U.S. that preceded the Mk. II. Does someone here know the answer?

His bike has original black paint and tubular tires. Closer inspection was not possible as the bike is virtually entombed behind other stored things. Nonetheless it was neat to see and a bit like an archaeological dig.

gugie 11-17-17 12:05 AM

nope, MkII was a bit later than 73, not sure when, others will chime in on date. Big Red is a 73, sloping fork crowns are the giveaway.

Hoopdriver 11-17-17 07:22 AM

My 74 is not a Mk. II

USAZorro 11-17-17 07:57 AM

My 74 isn't a MK II either. Then again, if that would be a MK I, what would my '71 be?

'71

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4465/3...841b7177_b.jpg

'74

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4313/3...0b9b34a0_b.jpg

nlerner 11-17-17 10:48 AM

According to the Raleigh catalogs (which are pretty limited info), the Competition is first designated as "Mk.II" in 1973. Odd, of course, is that the pic in that catalog shows a box, not sloping, fork crown:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4549/...7c39277c_c.jpg[/url]

Complicating matters is that this 1973 price list shows the Competition as "Mk.III"!

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8437/...a55c282b_c.jpg

I'm going to wildly speculate and say that the first version of the Competition, which appears in the 1969 catalog, didn't have a designation, i.e., there's no reason to designate something "Mk.I" if you don't plan on making changes! But then the Competition does not appear in the 1970-72 catalogs, so when it got re-introduced, it got designated Mk.II.

USAZorro 11-17-17 11:47 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19999140)
According to the Raleigh catalogs (which are pretty limited info), the Competition is first designated as "Mk.II" in 1973. Odd, of course, is that the pic in that catalog shows a box, not sloping, fork crown:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4549/...7c39277c_c.jpg[/url]

Complicating matters is that this 1973 price list shows the Competition as "Mk.III"!

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8437/...a55c282b_c.jpg

I'm going to wildly speculate and say that the first version of the Competition, which appears in the 1969 catalog, didn't have a designation, i.e., there's no reason to designate something "Mk.I" if you don't plan on making changes! But then the Competition does not appear in the 1970-72 catalogs, so when it got re-introduced, it got designated Mk.II.

I've seen some of them from '69 in Green. In fact, were it not for a failed eBay transaction, I would have had one. There's probably still someone around who could explain the logic of the naming.

gugie 11-17-17 12:21 PM

Early 70's Raleighs

A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.

But I'd bet it has a 57 cm top tube.

oddjob2 11-18-17 07:51 AM

Probably just ripping off the Lincoln division of Ford, not an uncommon practice to this day, ie Denali.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Mark_series

79pmooney 11-18-17 08:19 AM

Does anyone have insight re: the Carlton built Competitions? Mine looked like

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4313/3...0b9b34a0_b.jpg

before I stripped and painted it (with lots of new braze, a modern seat pin, bottle bosses and Campy standard hanger detail. (Bike apparently missed the brazing operation and was held to together with paint and and tack brazes or pins and had a couple of cracked tubes; paint not being a very good structural support).

My thinking is that mine is a '73 (Mk11?; I didn't see/notice any Mk II decal) because it had the older Reynolds 531 decals that ran through '73 but Raleigh or Carlton could easily have had a pile of those decals and just kept using them. (Nothing to see now. No decals and the chrome was in tough shape so it is gone. Just a very ordinary black bike with a not very ordinary ride.

Ben

nlerner 11-18-17 11:51 AM

@79pmooney, what’s the serial #? Seems pretty consistent that ‘73 Comps have a serial starting with A. Yours also looks to have Capella lugs, which were also on that model year and rarely on others.

USAZorro 11-18-17 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 20000614)
Does anyone have insight re: the Carlton built Competitions? Mine looked like

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4313/3...0b9b34a0_b.jpg

before I stripped and painted it (with lots of new braze, a modern seat pin, bottle bosses and Campy standard hanger detail. (Bike apparently missed the brazing operation and was held to together with paint and and tack brazes or pins and had a couple of cracked tubes; paint not being a very good structural support).

My thinking is that mine is a '73 (Mk11?; I didn't see/notice any Mk II decal) because it had the older Reynolds 531 decals that ran through '73 but Raleigh or Carlton could easily have had a pile of those decals and just kept using them. (Nothing to see now. No decals and the chrome was in tough shape so it is gone. Just a very ordinary black bike with a not very ordinary ride.

Ben

This might be a '73. I need to double-check the serial. It definitely is not labeled as a MK II though. The brazing on this leaves a bit to be desired also.

motogeek 11-18-17 03:42 PM

I just scored a '73 Competition (Huret Jubilee equipped) this week. I found it on Philadelphia CL and was able to buy it a a pretty low price. Even with packing and BikeFlights shipping it came in below what I've typically seen them go for on fleabay. The guy who packed it at the LBS said it was in incredible shape, didn't look like it had ever been ridden. I'm stoked, can't wait to get it and put it together. Will put up pics in a couple weeks.

vie303 04-11-18 10:51 PM

Let's see some pictures that your promised :)

Hudson308 04-12-18 08:01 AM


Originally Posted by motogeek (Post 20001378)
...Will put up pics in a couple weeks.

Yeah, c'mon Moto! Central Illinois must've thawed out enough for pictures by now!

steelbikeguy 04-12-18 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by motogeek (Post 20001378)
..... I'm stoked, can't wait to get it and put it together. Will put up pics in a couple weeks.

I hope it's coming along well. The winter was lousy enough to provide a lot of time for working on projects, although my meager progress isn't much evidence for it.

Bushwacker (a local bike/sports shop) is talking about doing a vintage bike show and a separate vintage ride this summer... probably August. Might be a good chance to meet you and see the Competition!


Steve in Peoria

USAZorro 04-13-18 05:59 AM


Originally Posted by USAZorro (Post 20001048)
This might be a '73. I need to double-check the serial. It definitely is not labeled as a MK II though. The brazing on this leaves a bit to be desired also.

I need to correct myself on the date of the Competition I identified here as a '74 or '73. It has a G#### serial number - which means it's actually a 1972.

vie303 04-13-18 10:58 AM

Raleigh Competition Newly Acquired
 
Since y'all here are experts on this matter, I would like to ask if you can help me determine year of the bike and what's original and what's not original on the bike. Also I was wondering what timeframe the decal on the frame changed to what's on the bike (maybe a decal timeline would be awesome). Thanks in advance.

500px.com/vie303/galleries/vintage-bikes

USAZorro 04-13-18 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by vie303 (Post 20282276)
Since y'all here are experts on this matter, I would like to ask if you can help me determine year of the bike and what's original and what's not original on the bike. Also I was wondering what timeframe the decal on the frame changed to what's on the bike (maybe a decal timeline would be awesome). Thanks in advance.

500px.com/vie303/galleries/vintage-bikes

Beautiful. With that oval badge, it is quite likely a 1970, though might possibly be as early as 1967. The serial number is most likely on the bottom bracket. If it starts with "E" - 1970. "D" - 1969, "C" - 1968 , "B" - 1967.

vie303 04-13-18 01:39 PM


Originally Posted by USAZorro (Post 20282480)
Beautiful. With that oval badge, it is quite likely a 1970, though might possibly be as early as 1967. The serial number is most likely on the bottom bracket. If it starts with "E" - 1970. "D" - 1969, "C" - 1968 , "B" - 1967.

Thanks Zoro! The serial number starting with D would signify 1969 from my readings at Sheldon Brown's site. Any idea on what the "CB" on the stem represents?

juvela 04-13-18 01:46 PM

-----

Are you sure it is a "CB" and not a "GB?"

GB is for Gerry Burgess.

-----

vie303 04-13-18 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by juvela (Post 20282550)
-----

Are you sure it is a "CB" and not a "GB?"

GB is for Gerry Burgess.

-----

YOU ARE RIGHT!! It is GB!
500px.com/photo/253471083/raleigh-competition-d9278-by-viephoto-studio?ctx_page=1&from=gallery&galleryPath=30053027&user_id=552651

juvela 04-13-18 02:08 PM

-----

Gerry Burgess began by making aluminum framed patio furniture, the bicycle parts came subsequently.

-----

vie303 04-14-18 12:37 AM


Originally Posted by juvela (Post 20282595)
-----

Gerry Burgess began by making aluminum framed patio furniture, the bicycle parts came subsequently.

-----

Thank for all these useful information. Keep them coming!

vie303 04-16-18 12:28 PM

So onto next sets of questions:

I'm replacing the Weinnmann 750 with a little more compact modern brakes.
Here are options and my thoughts:

Tektro R559 - Seems big (57-73mm)
Tektro R539 - Like the looks (47-57mm)

Would the R539 be the right fit for my Raleigh? Also, would there be drilling involved to accept the recessed nuts?

USAZorro 04-16-18 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by vie303 (Post 20287749)
So onto next sets of questions:

I'm replacing the Weinnmann 750 with a little more compact modern brakes.
Here are options and my thoughts:

Tektro R559 - Seems big (57-73mm)
Tektro R539 - Like the looks (47-57mm)

Would the R539 be the right fit for my Raleigh? Also, would there be drilling involved to accept the recessed nuts?

I can answer part. If you get any brakes with recessed mounting, you would either need to change the mounting hardware (which could be more trouble than it's worth), or there would be drilling involved.


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